Marvel RPG conversion (AC)

[HeroGM]

Does anyone have the conversions from Adventurer's Club for TSRs Marvel game from the 80s?

 

Please and Thank You

[CptPatriot]

My research indicated AC #5 but I can't find it.

[CptPatriot]

Update:

I found a link on the wayback machine to the table @ https://web.archive.org/web/20120117030409/http://www.mactyre.net/scm/articles/MSH-1.html
 

I posted the chart below
 

Conversion notes -- Marvel Super Heroes to Champions
by Aaron Sullivan 

 

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		Ty (6)	Gd(10)	Ex(20)	Rm(30)	In(40)	Am(50)	Mn(75)	Un(100)
STR / STR		10-12	13-15	16-20	21-30	31-45	46-55	56-65	66-75
DEX /AGL		10-12	13-15	16-20	21-25	26-30	31-35	36-40	41-45
CON /END		10-12	13-15	16-20	21-25	26-30	31-35	36-40	41-45
INT /REA		10-12	13-15	16-20	21-25	26-30	31-35	36-40	41-45
EGO /PSYC*		10-12	13-15	16-20	21-25	26-30	31-35	36-40	41-45
PRE/ [(In + P)/2]		10-12	13-15	16-20	21-25	26-30	31-35	36-40	41-45
SPD /AGL**		2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
DEF		2-5	6-10	11-15	16-20	21-25	26-30	31-35	36-40

 

Every +CS above Unearthly gives an additional + 5 (i.e., CL1000 END would equal CON 65), except for SPD. For SPD, every +2 CS equals +1 SPD (i.e., CL1000 AGL would equal SPD 11).

* Assuming the character is a Psi or Mage; otherwise, use [(Re + In + Ps)/3]

** If either FIGHTING or INTUITION is higher than AGILITY, increase SPD by 1

 

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 Special Cases

 BODY: 8 + (Health/25)

COM: GM's Discretion

 PD/ED:Assuming that no relevant defense powers are involved, give the character 2 x Figured (not resistant). In MSH, most defensive powers replace standard defenses. Therefore, if a relevant defense, such as Body Armor, is less than the 2 x Figured, buy Damage Resistance equal to its conversion (see chart above). If the defensive power is greater than the figured defense, buy its Champions' equivalent equal to the difference between the two, in addition to the damage resistance. The exceptions are Force Fields and Force Shields (Wall) -- simply convert those according to their active point equivalents  

CV: If AGILITY is greater than FIGHTING, use DEX for base combat values. If FIGHTING is greater, buy combat levels sufficient to raise average CV to the value it would have if DEX were based on FIGHTING instead of AGILITY

 

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Powers

Most Powers have adequate enough descriptions to convert them without much difficulty. If the power in question is an attack power, assume the damage class to fall in the same range as if the power's rank were converted as STR. Assume active points in other powers to follow the same conversion, except for sensory powers, which convert at 1/5^th that value.

The GM has two options with movement powers: either convert by active points, or assume that game inches per phase equals the rank number (i.e., Rm Flight would equal 30" of Flight in Champions' terms).

****MSH doesn't really have a skill system per se, so fill in from their listed "talents" the best you can**** 

****As MSH doesn't make use of the disadvantage system, fill in disadvantages per knowledge of the character (i.e., appropriate Hunteds and Psychological limitations, etc.)****

 

[Aaron Sullivan]

That brings back some memories. A quick point: I cobbled this together a LONG time ago. Mid-90s actually. It was based on my home games using the 4th edition rules. I say this because 5th and 6th editions use a different initial expectation of what the numbers represent (there's even a table for it). My intent was to make sure that the Champions Universe characters compared if not favorably to Marvel Universe characters, that at least they wouldn't one and all look like wimps when held up against their published peers. At the time, most conversions I was reading on different forums had vastly overpowered Marvel characters ... even D-List MU stalwarts outclassed the best the CU had to offer. I reacted poorly to that.

 

Anyway, I hope you get some use out of the material. Best of luck with your games.

[unclevlad]

Yeah, but some of that is system, and costing.  Some of it is, Marvel's got to link to their literary roots, where Points, Shmoints is the rule, and Champions Universe has no such connection.  Power tricks are the norm in comics;  they're...not barred but handled awkwardly in Hero, because power tricks are a descriptive, narrative device, and Hero is mostly prescriptive and formulaic.  Core assumptions are just *different* between the two, for many reasons.

 

I think the notion you mentioned for movement...simply taking each MCH category and defining a Hero equivaent *ignoring points* is your best bet, regardless of how the points come out.

[Scott Ruggels]

2 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 Power tricks are the norm in comics;  they're...not barred but handled awkwardly in Hero, because power tricks are a descriptive, narrative device, and Hero is mostly prescriptive and formulaic.  Core assumptions are just *different* between the two, for many reasons.

 

Probably why I never cottoned to Marvel FASERIP. Too loose for me.

[unclevlad]

I have a copy of FASERIP and I've looked it over, but nothing more than that.  Might've deleted it;  don't see it offhand now.  What I remember from most of the superhero games was the wild randomness, and that by and large, your failure rates were exceptionally high even for simple stuff.  

 

Storyteller might make a good basis.  Aberrant could work, but would need a fair bit of rework, given that the premise is so negative.  Fate System, particularly the implementation used by Marion Harmon in Wearing the Cape, has interesting points...but some very annoying limitations.  Champions Now might work well;  the first tweak I'd make would be END costs.  Even plain ol' Hero is mostly good, with some costing issues...and too much encouragement to take (then work around) limitations to get more points.

[HeroGM]

Thank you for posting that

[archer]

A long time ago, I converted some of the X-Men using those conversion charts. Almost all of them would have been blown away almost instantly against any low-powered villain, not to mention a group of people with assault rifles.

 

You're going to have to bring up a lot of the characters to campaign-normal levels of defenses unless your idea of a good time is to blow away trademarked characters.

[Ninja-Bear]

Or you just adjust the villains.

[archer]

6 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Or you just adjust the villains.

 

Um, most of the X-Men as published had no defenses at all aside from whatever PD or ED came from figured characteristics. 

 

So doing a straight conversion would leave characters like Cyclops or Storm with a PD of either 2 or 3 total and no resistant defenses at all.

 

You can't adjust the villains down far enough to deal with defenses of that level. If you tried, literally every punk with a Saturday night special would outgun supervillains.

 

And you couldn't have any supervillains in the world who are smart enough to buy off-the-shelf weapons.

[Jhamin]

On 7/25/2020 at 3:37 PM, archer said:

So doing a straight conversion would leave characters like Cyclops or Storm with a PD of either 2 or 3 total and no resistant defenses at all.

 

You can't adjust the villains down far enough to deal with defenses of that level. If you tried, literally every punk with a Saturday night special would outgun supervillains.

 

I actually played a lot of FACERIP Marvel back in the day, it followed the conventions of the comics at the time that (say) Cyclops was just a guy in good shape who shot eyebeams.  Now that is clearly crazy if you assume he is getting kicked around by Blob or Avalance an not dying. 
Marvel's system covered it by giving everyone "Health" that let them soak 2-4 hits from equal opponents before they went down and maybe one from a superior one.

Body Armor or Force Fields were *really* powerful in that system as it let you ignore damage from every attack up to a certain level, which was amazing under that rule set and standard under Hero.

I also seem to remember the system breaking down hard when you got down to Daredevil or MoonKnight level adventures.  Daredevil was just too fragile and did too little damage to deal with the groups of street thugs he was supposed to be able to school.

I'd say the conversion rules are fine as far as they go, the just don't account for the different assumptions between the systems.  Which makes them like all conversion rules: Fine as a guide but useless as a bible.  If you can convert between two systems perfectly then they are probably not really two different systems.

[Ninja-Bear]

On 7/25/2020 at 4:37 PM, archer said:

 

Um, most of the X-Men as published had no defenses at all aside from whatever PD or ED came from figured characteristics. 

 

So doing a straight conversion would leave characters like Cyclops or Storm with a PD of either 2 or 3 total and no resistant defenses at all.

 

You can't adjust the villains down far enough to deal with defenses of that level. If you tried, literally every punk with a Saturday night special would outgun supervillains.

 

And you couldn't have any supervillains in the world who are smart enough to buy off-the-shelf weapons.

Ok, I didn’t realize that if you did a straight conversion of X-Men, they’d be that wimpy compared to regular Champions. Point is taken.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Most of the Marvel characters not known for their defenses appear to have both Luck and Combat Luck based on how they're usually written.

[Ninja-Bear]

Well it’s been brought up before, but I can’t help but wonder how a game would look like if there was no Killing Attacks just Normal Damage (with Advantages).

[HeroGM]

Just to diverge and agree - conversions are more of s guide line then anything, especially when it comes to Hero. Also you have to look at the how the rules may have changed. The conversion was written when 4th edition was out, a bit of a change compared to 6th. Look at the conversion notes for Villians & Vigilantes.  They converted just as badly straight across.  What kind of style are you converting the character to? Outside of a few chages here and there comic characters tend to the same now as they were published - a few twists here and there plus some experience. Are you doing more of a 70s four- color style or 90s Dark Age (Image)?  Are those just spandex tights or micro-kevlar (so last year now that we have ....)?

[Greywind]

The original AC conversion systems were pre-4th.

[pawsplay]

The suggestion to double the defenses from figured is not bad, and also flows from the suggestions in Ninja Hero and so forth. So the X-Men would have 4 to 6 points of PD. Also in many incarnations they wore soft kevlar armor or other defenses. And Cyclops definitely has Combat Luck... it's going to be difficult to convert that directly, but a good Agility (used for dodging) is probably a good sign that a lightly armored character should have it. Marvel Endurance scores are rather gisted, I think the Champions equivalent would often have more Stun and Body than indicated.

[Greywind]

As I recall, mutants have a baseline Remarkable for CON.