Superhero Origins

[Christougher]

The MMORPG City of Heroes let you choose the Origin type of your powers from Magic, Mutant, Natural, Science and Tech, and this played a minor role in the game. Most of these were self explanatory how their powers originated, but Natural was for those heroes "without" superpowers per se.  Batman and Green Archer would be simple examples of this - people of mostly normal ability who were on par with other superheroes.  Marvel's Bullseye could even be considered Natural as his powers are highly developed accuracy.

 

I like the idea of broad grouping of origins, but the wide range of abilities (not just CoH, but easier to explain with) don't often lend well to some powersets.  Sure any weapon wielding scrapper, even Claws or Super Reflexes work, but how does one justify things like Stone Tank or Radiation Defender powers from someone who...doesn't really have superpowers?  Without turning this into a list, does anyone have ways to explain how mostly normalish people can have some of the stranger superpowers and special effects?

 

Chris.

 

[Ninja-Bear]

I think what Marvel did through out the years was to rewrite certain naturals into latent mutates/mutants. (I’m personally not sure of the difference). For example both Whirlwind, originally the human top, learned to spin really fast is now a latent mutant. And Elongated Man (wait is he DC?), the fictional Ginko fruit affects his genes too. 

[Tjack]

   This is kind of a catch 22.  Once a “normal person” has some way of using super powers doesn’t that make them a “Super Person”.  
  Take Green Lantern for example.  A normal man (if you consider a test pilot normal) is given a ring that turns him into  an Alpha level hero.  Take the ring away and he’s back to normal.  A creator can justify almost anything if they’re creative enough. What exactly is your question/request? 
  Do you just want some fresh ideas for an origin, or are you looking for something more comprehensive in the way of types of origins?  You said you weren’t looking for a list, but I don’t know what you are looking for.  I’d love to help, but I need a clearer signpost.

[Tjack]

14 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I think what Marvel did through out the years was to rewrite certain naturals into latent mutates/mutants. (I’m personally not sure of the difference). For example both Whirlwind, originally the human top, learned to spin really fast is now a latent mutant. And Elongated Man (wait is he DC?), the fictional Ginko fruit affects his genes too. 

    DC Comics “Invasion” event during the ‘80’s clarified their policy on origins.  
They established the “Meta-Gene”.   A fraction of the human population has the genetic quirk to allow mutation under outside influences.
 Basically, Barry Allen who has the gene gets splashed with chemicals hit by lightning...he gets superpowers.  Joe Shmoe standing next to him doesn’t have the gene and gets hit with all the same stuff and ends up in the ICU burn ward.  Tough break Joe.

 Elongated Man (yes he’s DC) just happened to be able to metabolize the chemical in the fruit that gave him the powers. Anybody else could eat the stuff by the truckload and the best they could do is be the best student in their Yoga class.

[Christougher]

Meta Gene or latent mutant moves them into other Origin categories.  Green Lantern, by virtue of using the ring, is most likely Tech.  

 

What am I looking for?  Starting with just the two examples, and working out to a generic version of the question:

How does a "normal" or Natural origin hero have the abilities of a Stone Tank or Radiation Defender or whatever - without it being Magical, latent Mutant, high Tech, or weird Science?  The type of thing where anyone /could/ but only a few actually do.  

 

Some other Natural origins I use include extreme training, normal level items, and Ch'i abilities.  But those don't lend themselves to a lot of powers or special effects. 

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

Basically I don’t think you can have a Radiation Defender or Stone Tank and be natural unless you go with the very old comics and just allow Charles Atlas Super Powers. Iow, you can state that he is a Stone Tank and is natural origin and then don’t think about it too much is my best guess.

[Tjack]

10 minutes ago, Christougher said:

Meta Gene or latent mutant moves them into other Origin categories.  Green Lantern, by virtue of using the ring, is most likely Tech.  

 

What am I looking for?  Starting with just the two examples, and working out to a generic version of the question:

How does a "normal" or Natural origin hero have the abilities of a Stone Tank or Radiation Defender or whatever - without it being Magical, latent Mutant, high Tech, or weird Science?  The type of thing where anyone /could/ but only a few actually do.  

 

Some other Natural origins I use include extreme training, normal level items, and Ch'i abilities.  But those don't lend themselves to a lot of powers or special effects. 

 

 

   That depends on where you set the limits on something like Ch’i for example.  I don’t know if you’re familiar with Avatar: The Last Airbender, but that could give you a full selection of Elemental forces to choose from.

  And what are Jedi Knights but a bunch of jumped up Shaolin? 
 

[assault]

Part of the problem is the separation of Tech and Natural.

 

Batman and Green Arrow (and Hawkeye's) technology isn't any more Normal than Tony Stark's or Captain Cold's.

 

More generally, humans are a tool making species. It's "natural" for us to make tools. In a superheroic world, some of these tools can be very fancy indeed.

 

It would be fair to say that super scientists are the same as "naturals", except that they focused their training on their minds rather than (or as well as) their bodies.

[Ninja-Bear]

1 hour ago, assault said:

Part of the problem is the separation of Tech and Natural.

 

Batman and Green Arrow (and Hawkeye's) technology isn't any more Normal than Tony Stark's or Captain Cold's.

 

More generally, humans are a tool making species. It's "natural" for us to make tools. In a superheroic world, some of these tools can be very fancy indeed.

 

It would be fair to say that super scientists are the same as "naturals", except that they focused their training on their minds rather than (or as well as) their bodies.

I would say The difference between GL and Batman is that with Batman his tech enhances and compliments his skills. GL although he has skills, his Tech is separate from his skills.

[DShomshak]

4 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Basically I don’t think you can have a Radiation Defender or Stone Tank and be natural unless you go with the very old comics and just allow Charles Atlas Super Powers. Iow, you can state that he is a Stone Tank and is natural origin and then don’t think about it too much is my best guess.

Doom Patrol's Flex Mentallo!

 

Sorry, but once you say someone gets radiation aura powers by training, you are effectively saying it's magic. Just a very odd sort of magic. (And yes, the line between ch'i powers, psychic powers, and magic is very blurry.)

 

Not every origin type must accommodate every imaginable powerset. Let them have their own flavor.

 

Dean Shomshak

[death tribble]

The Gestalt book had waves hitting humanity that generated superpowers some of which created spontaneous beings from nothing if I recall correctly.

I would say it is up to the GM.

How do powers come about ?

Mutants in the populace ?

Radiation accidents ?

A genetic virus like the Wild Card one (https://wildcards.fandom.com/wiki/Wild_card_virus) ?

A superpower generating machine like Aaron Aalston's Professor Pommegranite ?

 

It's up to you

[Christougher]

29 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

Not every origin type must accommodate every imaginable powerset. Let them have their own flavor.

 

At the very end of the day,  I'm looking for a believable way for every origin to have every powerset. 

[Tjack]

38 minutes ago, Christougher said:

At the very end of the day,  I'm looking for a believable way for every origin to have every powerset. 

 That’s really all about the creativity (re: ability to spin B.S. into gold) of the person creating the character.  Personally I prefer to have a person and a story about them that I want to tell first.  Then that tells me what they can do. So all I have left to do is figure out how to describe that in game terms/rules.

  In example. Once upon a time I read the autobiography of a Navy Seal who served in Vietnam. The character of the man fascinated me and I wanted to play someone like him.   I decided to make him into a cross between Captain America & Nick Fury.  So now I had an idea of what powers and skills that person would have.

  Give me an power set and an origin type and I’ll come up with a story that makes it happen.  That’s easy...trying to create a person you want living in your head....that’s hard.

[DoctorImpossible]

Personally, I would say natural/training is the same as any other forms, *except* it comes mostly from your own skills and not any kind built-in superpowers, or strange effect that changed you, or even being a normal person except for having a gadget or artefact or gift of power from a wizard.

 

Shazam/Captain Marvel? Magic. Got given alternate form of immense power and the associated skill with magic as a result.

 

Thor? Magic. Got born with superpowers compared to humans because of being magical in nature. Also, gifted with Mjolnir.

 

But Doctor Strange? Natural/Training. He wasn't born a god, he wasn't gifted with a bunch of superpowers by an immortal and nobody left him a magical artefact. His dedication to study, meditation, practice, and eventually to defending the world, led Doctor Strange to become skilled with the spells and rites and invocations that grant him his incredible "powers".

 

Cyborg? Technology. His body is rebuilt as something new, using a fusion of human and the advanced technology that now is his body.

 

Green Lantern? Technology. He was gifted with the Green Lantern ring, an extremely advanced piece of alien technology under his command.

 

Iron Man? Natural/Training. Tony Stark has honed his genius intellect and advanced purely human technology to a level that is comparable to many alien empires.

 

The X-Men? Mutants. They have been born with an advanced, superhuman physiology that blesses them all with superpowers.

 

The Inhumans? Mutants. They suffered an exposure to terrigen mists that mutated in their DNA to give them superpowers.

 

Hourman? Natural/Training. He uses his incredible intellect and thorough education in chemistry, and biochemistry, to produce Miraclo, the one hour superpower pills that grant him superpowers for one hour at a time, letting him perform great heroics.

 

And so on.

 

Basically, whatever your superpower is, you can potentially get there with your own skills and talents, and therefore be a Natural/Training based superhero... Or, you can get lucky, and stumble on them, in which case you have to use a different type of origin story to explain.

 

Basically, I think that the important part is the fact that these heroes are who they are without their powers.

 

If Billy Batson couldn't change forms, he is just a human child. Thor used to turn into Donald Blake regularly, and always needed to change back into Thor before he was a significant threat to his enemies. Meanwhile, Doctor Strange had a long story arc recently that centred entirely on him *losing* his magic, but still finding ways to be just as effective without them, because he knows his enemies strengths and weaknesses.

 

If Green Lantern loses his ring, he is just a man. Potentially, depending on the Green Lantern, a military officer, but still just a man. Take away the suit from War Machine, and he, too, is just a military officer. But take the suit away from Tony Stark, and what is he? A billionaire, genius, playboy, philanthropist. Heck, if he can find a cave and a box of scraps, then a few days later, he'd have another Iron Man suit.

 

Inject a mutant with "the cure" and what do you get? Functionally humans, although technically just still mutants with a dormant X-gene that can still be triggered again. Cure inhumans? They become humans. Dose Hourman with some new "antidote" to miraclo? He'll just take another dose and get another hour of superpower.

[Christougher]

14 hours ago, Tjack said:

  Give me an power set and an origin type and I’ll come up with a story that makes it happen.  That’s easy...trying to create a person you want living in your head....that’s hard.

Try the Natural origin Stone Tank and Natural origin Radiation Defender that started this thread?

[Tjack]

35 minutes ago, DoctorImpossible said:

 

Inject a mutant with "the cure" and what do you get? Functionally humans, although technically just still mutants with a dormant X-gene that can still be triggered again. Cure inhumans? They become humans. Dose Hourman with some new "antidote" to miraclo? He'll just take another dose and get another hour of superpower.

    I’m reminded of the X- Men run of the ‘80’s, during Storm’s mowhawk period when she lost her powers and was challenged by Cyclops for leadership of the team since she was now “only human”.  She kicked his a$$ up one side of the danger room and down the other. Then continued to lead the team for another year or more. 
   Power sets and origins don’t matter. Once someone decides to put on a mask and run across rooftops all night they stop being like everybody else and become special.

  Whether it takes radioactive insects, magic words, alien science or just a buttload of crazy and a mountain of money to make that happen, it’s the character of that person you’re creating is the most important thing.

[Tjack]

8 minutes ago, Christougher said:

Try the Natural origin Stone Tank and Natural origin Radiation Defender that started this thread?

   Fair challenge.  What’s your definitions of “Stone Tank” and “Radiation Defender”?  ST sounds like The Thing and RD like Sun Boy but I don’t know if that’s what you meant.   Also does this character have BOTH sets of powers or is this for two different characters?

[Tjack]

   I just realized if those are accurate descriptions of those power sets then somebody else already did the work for me. 
The Firebenders from Avatar: The Last Airbender and a character called Stone who was an associate of Stick (Daredevil’s martial arts master from the Frank Miller era.) had those powers and were both trained in esoteric martial arts. 
  Both were born with no powers. So I think they fit the criteria, if they don’t just let me know.  This is fun!

[steriaca]

Just watched a YouTuber's video where he revealed that one year as a kid he asked Santa for superpowers for Christmas. 

 

Imagine how good you have to be for Santa to put superpowers under the tree...

[Tjack]

1 hour ago, steriaca said:

Just watched a YouTuber's video where he revealed that one year as a kid he asked Santa for superpowers for Christmas. 

 

Imagine how good you have to be for Santa to put superpowers under the tree...

   It would be a hell of an cool origin though, wouldn’t it?

[assault]

6 hours ago, steriaca said:

Imagine how good you have to be for Santa to put superpowers under the tree...

 

I've considered using Mopee in a character origin.

[Tech]

On 8/7/2021 at 8:48 AM, Tjack said:

    DC Comics “Invasion” event during the ‘80’s clarified their policy on origins.  
They established the “Meta-Gene”.   A fraction of the human population has the genetic quirk to allow mutation under outside influences.
 Basically, Barry Allen who has the gene gets splashed with chemicals hit by lightning...he gets superpowers.  Joe Shmoe standing next to him doesn’t have the gene and gets hit with all the same stuff and ends up in the ICU burn ward.  Tough break Joe.

 Elongated Man (yes he’s DC) just happened to be able to metabolize the chemical in the fruit that gave him the powers. Anybody else could eat the stuff by the truckload and the best they could do is be the best student in their Yoga class.

 

When I read the last line, I thought it said: "best they could do is be the best student in their Yogurt class." 

[IndianaJoe3]

On 8/7/2021 at 9:21 AM, Christougher said:

I like the idea of broad grouping of origins, but the wide range of abilities (not just CoH, but easier to explain with) don't often lend well to some powersets.  Sure any weapon wielding scrapper, even Claws or Super Reflexes work, but how does one justify things like Stone Tank or Radiation Defender powers from someone who...doesn't really have superpowers?  Without turning this into a list, does anyone have ways to explain how mostly normalish people can have some of the stranger superpowers and special effects?

 

They're aliens, like Superman. Everyone from their species has these powers (or would if they came to Earth).

[assault]

2 minutes ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

They're aliens, like Superman. Everyone from their species has these powers (or would if they came to Earth).

 

Nice loophole!

 

Totally correct!

[Tjack]

43 minutes ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

They're aliens, like Superman. Everyone from their species has these powers (or would if they came to Earth).

  That was actually a thing in the original Legion of Superheroes.  Most members were just very accomplished ordinary members of their planets population.   Saturn Girl was a talented telepath and Cosmic Boy was a top level athlete at the sport of Magno-ball.  Only a small percentage were like Lightning Lad or Sun Boy who got their powers in another more standard comic book origin way.

 

     BTW;  I thought somebody was going to hand me another couple of origins to come up with?   Like the lady said “Bored now.”