fantasy hero New Talent for Fantasy Hero - Armor Mastery

[Gauntlet]

Created two new (and related) talents for Fantasy Here which would work for both 5th Edition and 6th Edition, and I am checking to see what others think of it. The following are the talents:

 

Armor Mastery I

Armor (4 PD/4 ED) (12 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Must be Aware of Attack (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Only Half as Much as Worn Armor (-1/2), Not verse Critical Hit (-1/4), Not verse AE (-1/4))

3 Points

 

Armor Mastery II

Hardened (+1/4) for up to 36 Active Points of Worn Armor (9 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Must be Aware of Attack (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Not verse Critical Hit (-1/4), Not verse AE (-1/4)

3 Points

 

This talent is for characters who are masters at wearing armor, shifting in such ways where attacks hit the best defended portions of the armor. Each can only be purchased once of course, and Armor Mastery I must be purchased before Armor Mastery II. Attached is a Prefab file for it. Please let me know what you think.

 

Armor Mastery.hdp

Edited June 19, 2023 by Gauntlet
Corrected writeup

[Christopher R Taylor]

Looks good, that's the kind of stuff that is useful in a fantasy game where spellcasters are around.  It gives the fighty types more options to stand out and be special at what they do.

[Ninja-Bear]

That’s an interesting idea. I like it. 

[Gauntlet]

Not sure of one thing though, with Armor Mastery I would it be better to round up or round down for the armor bonus.

 

For example

Would 7 Defense Armor gain either 3 Def (round down) or 4 Def (round up)?

[Ninja-Bear]

5 minutes ago, Gauntlet said:

Not sure of one thing though, with Armor Mastery I would it be better to round up or round down for the armor bonus.

 

For example

Would 7 Defense Armor gain either 3 Def (round down) or 4 Def (round up)?

Would not the Hero rule of Round in character’s favor apply? I would think so.

[Khymeria]

Great stuff, I love martial oriented tricks! 

[Gauntlet]

12 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Would not the Hero rule of Round in character’s favor apply? I would think so.

Yea, that definitely makes sense.

 

Anyone else have any interesting FH Talents?

[Christopher R Taylor]

 

There are a small sample of ones in my upcoming book in this thread.

[tiger]

Kind of a strong variation of Combat Luck with limitations that fit. I like it.

20 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

  It gives the fighty types more options to stand out and be special at what they do.

I make spellcasters & psychics by a 3 point talent to use their abilities. Helps level the field.

[Cloppy Clip]

You've done a good job: it only works with armour so naturally synergises with the warrior-types who've invested the most in that field, and the limit versus AOEs means that a wizard can still do heavy damage to a group with a Fireball, or the equivalent, so fighters don't feel like they're getting into superhuman territory. And it's easy to explain what benefit they provide, which I think is always a plus with Talents that I think are meant to be simpler conceptually than Powers.

[bluesguy]

How is this different than Combat Luck?

[Gauntlet]

On 6/14/2023 at 11:18 AM, bluesguy said:

How is this different than Combat Luck?

It is rather similar in many ways but the big difference is that this does require armor to be worn and will not only make the added DEF bonus hardened but the armor itself hardened as well. So if a character has purchased both I and II and is wearing full plate they will have 12 points of hardened resistant defense rather than just 3.

[LoneWolf]

Neither of these gives the impenetrable advantage.  Was this intentional?

   

You should also specify that the character must not only be aware of the attack but also be maneuver.  This might be worth more of a limitation.  
 

Edited June 16, 2023 by LoneWolf

[greypaladin_01]

I agree that this seems like a very fun idea, and great for giving characters ways to specialize.   But how does it balance against the damage output in the game.

While I am still studying Fantasy Hero, it seems to me that most attacks are going to fall in the 1d6 to 2d6 range.    With Plate already being DEF 8 and as pointed out above, these skills adding could take you to DEF 12.   Meaning that other than a bit of STUN attacks will do nothing at all to a character.   Especially if with DEF 12 and then say a normalish PD of 5 or so.    That gives 17 defense against STUN attacks... even a 2d6 max roll of 12 with max STUNx of 3 would only take 19 STUN.

 

While this would (probably) be enough to Stun the character... it will certainly not be enough to KO them alone.   And if you HAVE to get a max damage roll just to have any real effect... is it TOO much then?

 

This is part of what I am trying to work through on the non-superhero side of HERO.   Things get very tight and I am curious how other people see something like this working in play.

[Gauntlet]

12 minutes ago, greypaladin_01 said:

I agree that this seems like a very fun idea, and great for giving characters ways to specialize.   But how does it balance against the damage output in the game.

While I am still studying Fantasy Hero, it seems to me that most attacks are going to fall in the 1d6 to 2d6 range.    With Plate already being DEF 8 and as pointed out above, these skills adding could take you to DEF 12.   Meaning that other than a bit of STUN attacks will do nothing at all to a character.   Especially if with DEF 12 and then say a normalish PD of 5 or so.    That gives 17 defense against STUN attacks... even a 2d6 max roll of 12 with max STUNx of 3 would only take 19 STUN.

 

While this would (probably) be enough to Stun the character... it will certainly not be enough to KO them alone.   And if you HAVE to get a max damage roll just to have any real effect... is it TOO much then?

 

This is part of what I am trying to work through on the non-superhero side of HERO.   Things get very tight and I am curious how other people see something like this working in play.

It definitely depends on the game. In my game I have found that attacks many times can get over 3d6 KA and even 4d6 KA with use of STR, Skill Levels, and Martial Arts. And since we utilize hit locations, the STUN Multiplier can go up to x5. Below is an example.

 

Fighter with 2 Handed Sword

2d6 HKA with 17 STR Min

Offensive Strike ads 4 Damage Classes making the damage 2&1/2d6

Utilizing 4 Skill Levels increases the damage to 3d6+1

Average Damage with Chest Shot: 12 BODY and 36 STUN

 

In addition, you are assuming that a character is wearing Full Plate Mail. Normally due to STR and Price in Gold, most are wearing Chain which is only 6 DEF making the total DEF with the Talent 9.

 

Should the exact same hit be in the head the damage would be 12 BODY and 60 STUN and if the character isn't wearing 8 DEF Armor the BODY taken is doubled.

[Gauntlet]

One thing though, I don't allow characters to purchase both Combat Luck and Armor Mastery. They can have one or the other, not both.

59 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

Neither of these gives the impenetrable advantage.  Was this intentional?

   

You should also specify that the character must not only be aware of the attack but also be maneuver.  This might be worth more of a limitation.  
 

Yes, Impenetrable is not part of it as Penetrating damage is not stopped.

 

And you are right I did forget Restrainable changing it to the following:

 

Armor Mastery I

Armor (4 PD/4 ED) (12 Active Points); Only Half as Much as Worn Armor (-½), OIF (-½), Must be Aware of Attack (-½), Restrainable (-½), Not verse Critical Hit (-¼), Not verse AE (-¼)

3 Points

 

Armor Mastery II

Armor Mastery II:  Hardened (+¼) for up to 36 Active Points of Worn Armor (9 Active Points); OIF (-½), Must be Aware of Attack (-½), Restrainable (-½), Not verse Critical Hit (-¼), Not verse AE (-¼)

3 Points

Edited June 16, 2023 by Gauntlet
Needed to add writeup

[greypaladin_01]

5 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

It definitely depends on the game. In my game I have found that attacks many times can get over 3d6 KA and even 4d6 KA with use of STR, Skill Levels, and Martial Arts. And since we utilize hit locations, the STUN Multiplier can go up to x5. Below is an example.

 

Fighter with 2 Handed Sword

2d6 HKA with 17 STR Min

Offensive Strike ads 4 Damage Classes making the damage 2&1/2d6

Utilizing 4 Skill Levels increases the damage to 3d6+1

Average Damage with Chest Shot: 12 BODY and 36 STUN

 

In addition, you are assuming that a character is wearing Full Plate Mail. Normally due to STR and Price in Gold, most are wearing Chain which is only 6 DEF making the total DEF with the Talent 9.

 

Should the exact same hit be in the head the damage would be 12 BODY and 60 STUN and if the character isn't wearing 8 DEF Armor the BODY taken is doubled.

 

Apparently things expand much more than I was giving credit for when it comes to damage.   Do people find there is a range of damage in a group or is it pretty standard that most find ways to hit 2-3d6 consistnatly?

[assault]

2d6 is pretty easy even on fairly low point totals.

 

Plain old sword: 1d6+1.

18 Str takes it to 1 1/2.

Skill levels take it to 2.

 

That's without Martial Arts.

 

Of course a plain old sword will max out at 2 1/2d6, unless you allow otherwise.

Edited June 16, 2023 by assault

[greypaladin_01]

5 minutes ago, assault said:

2d6 is pretty easy even on fairly low point totals.

 

Plain old sword: 1d6+1.

18 Str takes it to 1 1/2.

Skill levels take it to 2.

 

That's without Martial Arts.

 

Of course a plain old sword will max out at 2 1/2d6, unless you allow otherwise.

When you say Max Out, you mean between STR, Skill Levels and MA the most possible dice is 2 1/2 d6?

 

[LoneWolf]

I have seen damage get as high as 5d6 in a Fantasy Hero game.  2d6 is fairly normal and 3d6 is not uncommon.  When you start factoring in damage boosting talents like deadly blow  and weapon master the damage can get quite high. 

 

Prior to 6th edition the max a KA attack can be boosted to is twice its DC.  Talents like deadly blow and weapon master count as base damage so a 1d6+1 with an extra 1d6 from one of those could get as high as 5d6-1.     

[assault]

I'm referring to the pre-6e rule restricting damage to twice that of the basic weapon.

 

It's an optional rule in 6e.

 

Edit: also what LoneWolf said, but those Talents aren't in the edition I play (proving it sucks!).

Edited June 16, 2023 by assault

[Word Sensei 515]

'Based on Armor'. This isn't much of a limitation if you can buy enough armor. How often will this fighter be without armor or with lesser armor?

You've also got a total of '-1' due to various attacks not being effected. Could these be combined & lessened?

How often will this fighter be HTH & ranged attacked unawares? Critically Hit? What percentage of attacks are an area effect?

-1 total would be half price; is that enough savings, would you mind paying a little more for something you can use most of the time?

For the second power, combine all them into a -1/2 limitation. 9 pts. will harden up to 37 points of Armor for 4 points, like you already have.

 

 

[greypaladin_01]

It sounds like earlier editions were trying to keep the damage bounded a bit more.   5d6K for a heroic game seems.... intense.   But I'll check into the 6e notes as well.   Thanks!

[Word Sensei 515]

What edition is Only Half As Much As Worn Armor (-1/2) from?

[assault]

It would be worth looking at the point cost for such a big attack.

 

The character will probably be stacking Talents, Martial Arts, Skill Levels and Strength. It all adds up in a modest point total game.