Who is the MOST Annoying Villain you have Encountered?

[Gauntlet]

1 hour ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

I've used them before and never had an issue....possibly because I use them mostly as comic relief. 

 

Isn't that pretty much what they are for?

Edited September 12, 2023 by Gauntlet

[Lord Liaden]

In theory. Taken individually, though, a bunch of them aren't that funny.

[Grailknight]

13 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

I've used them before and never had an issue....possibly because I use them mostly as comic relief. 

 

They can be as individuals or even a pair or trio. It depends on their target and especially their tone. The problem comes when you have them target PC's who are actually heroic and haven't done anything wrong besides fail. 

 

If you've seen Shazam: Fury of the Gods, you could use that movie as an example.

 

Good use of CLOWN- Mocking the Marvel family for bad strategy. Playing catch with the McGuffin in the middle of a fight does not exhibit the Wisdom of Solomon.

 

Bad use of CLOWN- Blaming the Marvels for the property damage on the bridge and calling them menaces. They could have done much better, but at least they were trying, and they did save everyone's life.

[LoneWolf]

The most annoying villain I have encounters was Roadrunner.   He was a speedster that was incredibly difficult to hit and like to go out of his way to be annoying.   I still remember him dumping a McDonalds shake on my character and then dumping a coke on me, saying that shakes always made him thirsty.   He had a high DCV that made him really hard to hit and had a running dodge and a high enough DEX and skill levels he could dive for cover out of most area of effect attacks.   

 

I managed to catch him one time by waiting till he was jumping over me (to pour the coke on me) and put my tear gas arrow in the hex he was going to land in.  Not only did he not have the defense he took double damage from the attack so ended up getting stunned.   The attack lasted a turn, so he ended up being knocked out in his next phase.   I think I was one of the only characters to ever capture him.  
 

[Gauntlet]

15 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

The most annoying villain I have encounters was Roadrunner.   He was a speedster that was incredibly difficult to hit and like to go out of his way to be annoying.   I still remember him dumping a McDonalds shake on my character and then dumping a coke on me, saying that shakes always made him thirsty.   He had a high DCV that made him really hard to hit and had a running dodge and a high enough DEX and skill levels he could dive for cover out of most area of effect attacks.   

 

I managed to catch him one time by waiting till he was jumping over me (to pour the coke on me) and put my tear gas arrow in the hex he was going to land in.  Not only did he not have the defense he took double damage from the attack so ended up getting stunned.   The attack lasted a turn, so he ended up being knocked out in his next phase.   I think I was one of the only characters to ever capture him.  
 

 

I always liked running Roadrunner. He was the kind of villain you had to out think, not out fight.

[Lord Liaden]

You still have to be careful running a character like that, to keep his appearances from getting too frequent, or too long, or too aggravating. I've sometimes seen the fun the GM was having leaving the fun the player was having behind.

[Gauntlet]

1 minute ago, Lord Liaden said:

You still have to be careful running a character like that, to keep his appearances from getting too frequent, or too long, or too aggravating. I've sometimes seen the fun the GM was having leaving the fun the player was having behind.

 

Any villain utilized over and over again can become aggravating, I definitely agree with you. The only exception might be a master villain, but they most of the time (at least until the end) work in the background, using their minions.

[GDShore]

I agree with LL the primary function of the GM is to ensure the players fun. I ran a campaign in the early days of Champions in which one of the player characters was called Waterbug her primary ability was to walk on water, str of 13 and a gadgeteer. Over time I had introduced a series of villains tailored to specific player heroes, usually a 2-3 session arc in which the "baddie" would either be captured or escape to make an appearance later. I eventually created a villain for her. The ENTOMOLOGIST. His stchick was creating giant bugs. I had planned a a 6 session story arc, in 1 introduction, thru 2+3 defeating and humiliating the heroes, in 4 kidnapping Waterbug, in 5 the team tracking him down and the Entomologist torturing and attempting to extract her DNA to enhance his bugs, finally in 6 the "rescue", capture, trial and imprisonment of the Evil doer and the end of his reign of terror. 

     Everything went as planned up to session 5, the team was tracking and had located the Entomologists lair, I had arranged the lighting to be lowered to enhance the torture scene, and that is when I screwed up. I had planned on the use of a spinal tap needle (in my youth I had under gone such a procedure you do not want to do so,, ever). I was sitting in a corner of the room, in the dark, and was basically a disembodied voice coming out of that dark. I got too involved in the story and stopped watching the players. I described in excruciating detail the needle, the insertion, the pain the pain that lasts for weeks after. End of session 5, and I flicked the lights on. BOOM!! She is pale, sweating and races to the loo. 

     The group I was running at that time was 7 people, 4 gentlemen 3 ladies and a soon as the loo door closed the other two ladies began to beat me about the head and shoulders both figuratively and literally. When she  returned.,, we had planned to have a group supper that we all assisted in making, she wanted to continue right away so we decided on take out. (things like Doordash are not new). The other two ladies were still going after me and she came to my defense. So session 6, heroes arrive, massive combat, derring do, rescue, bad guy to prison and an end to his reign of terror. 

     When I planned the arc, I did not know she had an absolute horror of needles. Lesson learned, Know your players, talk to them out of game, learn what makes them tick, I had already used the kidnapping thing in a previous arc on someone who had been a friend for twenty years and everybody had raved about it. Know their strengths and their weaknesses, I am an Aliuraphobe  I hate cats my wife loves them. We would continue with champions for another year, then move to FH. 

     

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Good use of CLOWN- Mocking the Marvel family for bad strategy. Playing catch with the McGuffin in the middle of a fight does not exhibit the Wisdom of Solomon.

 

Yeah but let's be honest, almost none of the Marvel family ever displayed a shred of wisdom, and barely any speed.

[Gauntlet]

Couldn't help it so I downloaded Roadrunner onto this site. It can be located at the following:

 

 

 

 

 

[Sketchpad]

2 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

Couldn't help it so I downloaded Roadrunner onto this site. It can be located at the following:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow... they are annoying. 

[Hugh Neilson]

23 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

The most annoying villain I have encounters was Roadrunner.   He was a speedster that was incredibly difficult to hit and like to go out of his way to be annoying.   I still remember him dumping a McDonalds shake on my character and then dumping a coke on me, saying that shakes always made him thirsty.   He had a high DCV that made him really hard to hit and had a running dodge and a high enough DEX and skill levels he could dive for cover out of most area of effect attacks.   

 

I managed to catch him one time by waiting till he was jumping over me (to pour the coke on me) and put my tear gas arrow in the hex he was going to land in.  Not only did he not have the defense he took double damage from the attack so ended up getting stunned.   The attack lasted a turn, so he ended up being knocked out in his next phase.   I think I was one of the only characters to ever capture him.  
 

 

Now, is the annoying part that the character is hard to hit, can easily escape and requires considering new tactical options to defeat...

 

or that the character spends his phases humiliating the PC by dumping beverages on him? You can run well past the speed of sound, and the best use you can think to put that do is dumping fast food on people?  That's worse than the character who designs and builds super-scientific devices and uses them to rob jewellery stores and banks.

[LoneWolf]

In all honesty the reason he was annoying was for both of those reasons.  The character mostly stole things because he was greedy so was not a bloodthirsty villain.  The other thing is that the character almost always managed to get away.  I think the only time he was captured in the campaign was the time I managed to get him.   The campaign did have a lot of very deadly villains including some really vicious murderers.  He was not the most hated villain just the most annoying.  After watching him get away all the time it got old, but finial capturing him felt great.   He usually knew when to leave, but that time got a little too cocky.  

[Hermit]

On the less jokey/funny villains that are still annoying:

 

One player I knew, loathed the character Nebula. The zealous space cop who sent anyone and everyone who committed any 'crime' to Space hell. I don't mean just their character, but the player himself did not like the 'either have the right defenses or you're going to Duress' set up annoyed them as well. I confess, she's not my favorite either for similar reasons but I would like to think I've made her work the one or two times I've used her.

 

In the past, I've disliked Gravitar and her blunt hammer "I have power so I will single handedly take over the world" angle, but some excellent suggestions from my fellow hero philes on these boards, and some growth in official works alike have eased that.  Still one of my least favorite master level villains, which is a shame as we can always used more women among master villain level ("Glory  to V'han")

 

 

[BoloOfEarth]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:42 AM, LoneWolf said:

  I still remember him dumping a McDonalds shake on my character and then dumping a coke on me, saying that shakes always made him thirsty. 

 

See, I'd have had him dump the Coke on the PC first, then the McDonald's shake.  And say, "Coke always gives me the shakes."  Might as well throw a bad pun in there when you can.

[Gauntlet]

1 minute ago, BoloOfEarth said:

See, I'd have had him dump the Coke on the PC first, then the McDonald's shake.  And say, "Coke always gives me the shakes."  Might as well throw a bad pun in there when you can.

 

So Sayith The MASTER! I bow to you sir...

[Gauntlet]

On 9/11/2023 at 4:02 PM, Dr. MID-Nite said:

I've used them before and never had an issue....possibly because I use them mostly as comic relief. 

 

I would say that is the best way to use them. Especially when the heroes just went through a tough stretch with a rather nasty villain(s). I have found that it is a good thing to have that light game play for a session or two after dealing with the Crowns of Krim or the like. CLOWN could be it, or just a normal villain who is not interested in ruling the world or killing anyone but is just interested in making a buck, or even one who just likes a challenge dealing with heroes, seeing if he can make the robbery with being unable to stop him/her.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, Hermit said:

On the less jokey/funny villains that are still annoying:

 

One player I knew, loathed the character Nebula. The zealous space cop who sent anyone and everyone who committed any 'crime' to Space hell. I don't mean just their character, but the player himself did not like the 'either have the right defenses or you're going to Duress' set up annoyed them as well. I confess, she's not my favorite either for similar reasons but I would like to think I've made her work the one or two times I've used her.

 

In the past, I've disliked Gravitar and her blunt hammer "I have power so I will single handedly take over the world" angle, but some excellent suggestions from my fellow hero philes on these boards, and some growth in official works alike have eased that.  Still one of my least favorite master level villains, which is a shame as we can always used more women among master villain level ("Glory  to V'han")

 

 

 

IMO Nebula does not work as a recurring villain. Her attitudes are too extreme and inflexible, explicitly hardwired into her brain; she's incapable of character growth. Her Duress Gauntlets are a plot device that doesn't bear repeating, lest your players turn on you. She's best used for a single story line culminating in escaping/rescuing someone from Duress. Nebula should probably end her role in a campaign either captured and imprisoned, or somehow sent back to her home galaxy.

 

Hero Games has traditionally done better than the comics at creating villainesses who are "master" level or can readily become so, and the current Champions Universe continues that tradition. Besides Istvatha V'han and Gravitar, we have the Shadow Queen, the Duchess, the Engineer, Demoiselle Nocturne, Chantal, Hecate... that's not counting the unsubtle raw powerhouses like Viperia, Galaxia and Eclipsar.

 

But the official Champions master villain I dislike the most is Dr. Destroyer, mainly for one reason: he's boring. You can sum up his character in three words: Power, Intellect, Arrogance. There's nothing more to him, no depth, no shadings. Nothing to make role playing him interesting. I was hoping Book Of The Destroyer would put some role playing meat on those megalomaniacal bones, show us what led to him becoming the man he is. Instead his megalomania seemed full-blown from childhood, like Athena from the brow of Zeus. BOTD mentions or cites many details from Albert Zerstoiten's past with great potential if they'd been followed up, but Steve Long almost never did.

 

A secondary element of my dislike for DD is that he has no redeeming qualities. Destroyer was originally inspired by Dr. Doom, but has none of Doom's nobility or grandeur. Destroyer pretends to be honorable, but will betray and backstab anyone the moment it's to his advantage. The Doctor is monumentally petty and spiteful, devising horrible torments in retribution for the smallest slights. He's like the worst Internet troll imaginable, but with the power and intellect to back up his ravings.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Lord Liaden

[Gauntlet]

13 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

A secondary element of my dislike for DD is that he has no redeeming qualities. Destroyer was originally inspired by Dr. Doom, but has none of Doom's nobility or grandeur. Destroyer pretends to be honorable, but will betray and backstab anyone the moment it's to his advantage. The Doctor is monumentally petty and spiteful, devising horrible torments in retribution for the smallest slights. He's like the worst Internet troll imaginable, but with the power and intellect to back up his ravings.

 

I believe that is why myself and many GMs I have spoken with make changes to Dr. Destroyer's disadvantages to make him more of an honorable master villain. Making him one who has good intentions (like saving mankind from itself) but wants to fulfill them in rather evil ways is a much more interesting master villain. Also in many ways that makes him much harder to fight, as many of the things he says are correct.

 

But then again totally evil supervillains are not such a bad thing either, like Mechanon who just wants to destroy all life. But it is best if those villains are different and not the norm.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Gauntlet

[Hermit]

7 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

IMO Nebula does not work as a recurring villain. Her attitudes are too extreme and inflexible, explicitly hardwired into her brain; she's incapable of character growth. Her Duress Gauntlets are a plot device that doesn't bear repeating, lest your players turn on you. She's best used for a single story line culminating in escaping/rescuing someone from Duress. Nebula should probably end her role in a campaign either captured and imprisoned, or somehow sent back to her home galaxy.

 

Hero Games has traditionally done better than the comics at creating villainesses who are "master" level or can readily become so, and the current Champions Universe continues that tradition. Besides Istvatha V'han and Gravitar, we have the Shadow Queen, the Duchess, the Engineer, Demoiselle Nocturne, Chantal, Hecate... that's not counting the unsubtle raw powerhouses like Viperia, Galaxia and Eclipsar.

 

But the official Champions master villain I dislike the most is Dr. Destroyer, mainly for one reason: he's boring. You can sum up his character in three words: Power, Intellect, Arrogance. There's nothing more to him, no depth, no shadings. Nothing to make role playing him interesting. I was hoping Book Of The Destroyer would put some role playing meat on those megalomaniacal bones, show us what led to him becoming the man he is. Instead his megalomania seemed full-blown from childhood, like Athena from the brow of Zeus. BOTD mentions or cites many details from Albert Zerstoiten's past with great potential if they'd been followed up, but Steve Long almost never did.

 

A secondary element of my dislike for DD is that he has no redeeming qualities. Destroyer was originally inspired by Dr. Doom, but has none of Doom's nobility or grandeur. Destroyer pretends to be honorable, but will betray and backstab anyone the moment it's too his advantage. The Doctor is monumentally petty and spiteful, devising horrible torments in retribution for the smallest slights. He's like the worst Internet troll imaginable, but with the power and intellect to back up his ravings.

 

I do love the Shadow Queen as she's a fantastic Maleficient homage. And yes, though I think MORE Master villainesses would be great, HERO games does deserve props for putting more effort into it than often occurs in mainstream comic books.

 

Dr. Destroyer works for me more for the politics around him and his minions than Dr. Destroyer himself. Fanatical footsoldiers, elite level supervillains who could be masters themselves if they renegaded like Menton did (And survived) and so on but I agree he lacks the depth of Doom by himself. Dr. D is sometimes more like a heavy gas giant to me... it's the orbits he creates that bring out my creative side as a game master.

 

Istvatha V'han is probably my 'ethical conqueror' type in my games but even then I work more through her generals for the PCs to face, at least at first. But when the heroes do meet her, they learn she absolutely wants to help everyone... and all it will cost them is their unswerving obedience. She wants to prevent worlds hunger, eradicate disease, and uplift primitive species; nevermind that for 'the greater good' she'll starve a planet if she has to, or order a virus loose on a rebel reality, or crush a planet's civilization back to the stone age if defied. She'll still keep her word.

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

Istvatha V'han and Dr. Yin Wu are the only two Champions villains I can think of who are explicitly guaranteed to keep any promise they make. V'han because she believes that's the conduct expected of a great ruler; Wu because the gods he propitiates demand honor as a price for his power. Even Firewing may behave dishonorably if he could win a great victory thereby.

 

From the comics, I'm not currently able to think of a major villain besides Doom with such a code. I'd love to hear of one if they exist.

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

 

But then again totally evil supervillains are not such a bad thing either, like Mechanon who just wants to destroy all life. But it is best if those villains are different and not the norm.

 

I agree, there's something delightfully terrifying in a villain with a horrifying goal they're committed to by their very nature. Like Surtur whose whole purpose in existence is to burn all the Nine Realms to ash. But then, that commitment shapes what they do as villains, and creates scenarios that are unique to them. Dr. Destroyer is essentially another narcissistic would-be world conqueror who believes he should rule the world because he's Just That Great. IMHO a character like that really needs some embellishment to make him more distinctive.

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, Hermit said:

 

Dr. D is sometimes more like a heavy gas giant to me...

 

 

There are multiple levels on which that statement makes me snicker.

 

Of course saying that publicly on Champions Earth would put you on Dr. D's hit list.

[Gauntlet]

In my Champions game I had the characters free Dr. Destroyer from the magic based version of him that had him prisoned. Want a pissed off supervillain, they got one there. Only reason they freed him was to stop the magic based DD from opening the rift to the same dark dimension Demon keeps trying to open.

[Lord Liaden]

Sounds like you took inspiration from the "Resistance" story line from Champions Online.

 

I'm glad that MMO contributed to a real superhero RPG.