Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

[Mortuorum`]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

How many points did you allow for Disads?

The upper limit was 100, but I encouraged players to keep it at about 80 or so. Since teen heroes shouldn't generally have a lot of reputations, harsh hunteds and the like, it can actually be pretty difficult scraping up 100 points.

 

Attack powers are in the 7-9 DC range, so a 160-total point character is actually pretty viable.

[Seraphim]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

hey there,

 

Ok i finally got round to reading all of these things whew!!

 

I have a few things that i really want to see in the book.

 

I want to see npc's for staff in a normal school. how is the guidence counselor going to react when he finds out that zara, can actually turn into a 4000 year old demon who is out to beat the crap out of missy the prom queen who is a normal. or the gym teacher who is trying to find someone for the wrestling team and finds out his star candidate has just gained his super strength and has to be ousted from the team cos supers cant take part.

 

I also want to see lots of plot hooks, examples :-

 

* Its prom night and brain boy the biggest super geek and costumed crimefighter who thwarted a foxbat plan finally got the girl - but foxbat knows his identity and screws up the prom.

 

*gritty plot hooks to do with drugs, bullying, suicide, gangs, parental abuse...

 

*On the mystic side lots of goths try to learn wicca and the like

 

*We need Stereotypes for the type of kids in a high school, (Not another teen movie good place for stereotypes)

 

*Kids through ages (from bucky in military school in the golden age, archie style in the silver age, spidey bronze age, and outcasts modern age) I want to see the ice cream parlours as a hang out in silver age, i also want to see kids trying to get alcohol and drugs in modern so do my group.

 

*Being British i dont want to see stereotypical exchange students (batgirl in batman and robin "oh hello can i have a cup of tea and a scone" bah) but i do want to see exchange students

 

* I want to also have the really inappropriate things like learning to drive so that it can be easier for kids to learn things that they are taking.

 

When i think of more i will add them

[rjcurrie]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it. I think it'll probably have more rules info... I need to sit down with it and make sure these ideas are worthwhile, but there're a couple things I want to play with...

 

Archetypes will be presented differently -- i.e.: jock, skater, burn-out, etc. will be the archetypes -- then recommended standard archetypes will branch from there -- i.e.: jock as brick, jock as energy blaster, jock as martial artist, jock as weapon master (i don't know, maybe he throws trick basketballs or something ) -- so this might require more space.

Other archetypes that you may or may not have already thought of: popular girl, shy/bookish girl, nerd, schemer (a la Zack Morris from "Saved By The Bell"), rich kid, fashion plate, rebel, etc.

 

Disadvantages will be "redefined" -- maybe further defined and explored is a better way of putting it -- something like that. Hunted: Clique (Watching), for instance. Also, Social Limitation: Under 16, and Social Limitation: Under 18. Rivalries has a lot of potential, I think, in an enclosed environment like a high school. In other words, many Disadvantages not so appropriate to regular Champs can be made relevant in the melodramatic world of teenagers. DNPCs also warrant discussion... anyway tons of stuff here to discuss.

Sounds cool. I can definitely see Rivalry being big in a TC campaign. A good discussion of Psych Lims for teens would be good too.

 

Also in need of space is proper purchase of skills -- teenagers, unless playing Curve-Breaker, the Boy Genius, shouldn't have as many skills as normal (at least, normal for published Champions characters) -- so there'll be some recommended limits or something.

I think I'd go with recommended limits as opposed to hard ones. And an appropriate list of Everyman skills is a definite must.

 

Also need to address how to build powers with flaws, how to have fun with limited powers, and recommendations for how to model getting better with powers vis-a-vis spending experience points.

There should be a definite emphasis on new and improved powers being discovered as part of a "story". Smallville is the best example I can think of for this.

 

Also need a general overview of parent/child relationship possibilities -- everything from superhero/villain for parent, to nosy parents, to negiligent parents, to abusive parents -- as well as a quick rundown of the law and minors. Maybe get into some gray areas, if I think there's potential for plot seeds -- for instance can Curve-Breaker, the Boy Genius apply for adulthood, and why not? Isn't he smart enough to go it alone? Is a character with a long-life, but who's slow-to-mature an adult at 18? Why not? More thematic elements to Teen Champions too -- more soap opera stuff -- so that'll need space.

Oh, yeah, I definitely want to see the soap opera stuff. It's one of my favorite parts of the superhero genre and it's even more important in a teen campaign: the angst of dating, etc.

 

There's other stuff -- just kind of throwing things out there -- but I do think there's going to be more sub-genre information than Galactic Champions.

Yeah! To me, that should be the meat of a product like this. As a GM who tends to run his own worlds, the sub-genre info is much more useful than the setting-specific info.

 

 

As for heroes and villains, and settings.

 

I've got the school situation broken down into four possibilities, each of which will be explored with heroes/villains and settings. Private school with secret superhuman program (Ravenswood). Private school solely for superhumans (Generation Viper). Public school kids (some Millennium City High School, unnamed as of yet). These three will be located in Millennium City, and have "interschool" rivalries -- public school kids don't like spoiled kids at Ravenswood, Ravenswood/Generation Viper have New Mutants/Hellions relationship, etc. The fourth possibility is kids on the run -- this will be covered with NOVA (from Champions Universe). General information and specific details will be provided for each setting, so a GM can run his own Teen Champions game in the setting. (Even the Generation Viper stuff would make for a good campaign setting, I think -- evil or deluded parents send good kid to bad school, and the good kids band together to make best of terrible situation.) At least one or two maps of facilities -- Ravenswood will definitely be mapped out -- we'll see about the rest.

I would definitely like to see the Public school mapped out too (or at least discussed in some detail) as the concept of supers in a normal school (a la Buffy or Smallville) has great possibilities.

 

Perhaps there should be a brief discussion of the idea of non-school related campaigns (for example, the New Teen Titans of the Wolfman/Perez era) where the members of a team may all go to different schools. In such a campaign, school-based stories would probably be sub-plots similar to stories in normal Champions campaigns that might involve a hero's workplace.

 

Somewhere in the book, maybe in this section, there should be a discussion of being a kid sidekick.

 

It'll probably be a little heavy on heroes for a Champions product. Normally I'm against that, but I think that'll be all right for this -- teen heroes always ended up in conflict with adults, including superheroes, because of either fanaticism, they're duped by the villain, or they're on the run like the NOVA team. Also the "boy hostage" scenario, and teen heroes often end up handing off the big stuff to adults. So, anyway, I think a GM of a more standard Champs campaign can find a use for superhero NPCs. (And teen hero PCs need rivals more than standard heroes, I think -- more likely to let jealousy, envy, hurt feelings, whatever stand in the way of common sense.)

I don't think this will be a problem. A lot of people seem to be looking for more heroes.

 

As for other villains... It'll have an overview of villain archetypes -- born evil, exploitive adults, victim of environment, too much power for too little maturity, rebel without a cause, etc. Each of these will have (at least one) corresponding villain. For those with DEMON, one will have been conceived in Boston in 1986 (hint, hint...). The Teen Dream, the perfect girl cum popstar. Generation Viper, mentioned above. Definitely some evil drug dealer guy. Plus it'll have notes on how to use published villains with Teen Champions campaigns -- specific plot seeds involving youth type stuff.

 

So anyway... Fifteen or so superheroes. Twenty - thirty villains. Something like that.

Cool.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

*We need Stereotypes for the type of kids in a high school, (Not another teen movie good place for stereotypes)

 

...

 

*Being British i dont want to see stereotypical exchange students (batgirl in batman and robin "oh hello can i have a cup of tea and a scone" bah) but i do want to see exchange students

Hmmm. So it's okay to stereotype every other type of student except exhange students?

[rjcurrie]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

just as a thought the millenium city high school could be named after a hero who fought in the battle of detroit. schools could take there colours and put a memorial up.

I love this idea.

[Kristopher]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Any kind of rough idea as to when this will come out?

 

(The date on which I started this thread should give you an idea of how long I've been waiting for it... )

[rjcurrie]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Well, given that there are still two books on the 2004 schedule that haven't made it out and five books listed before it on the 2005 schedule, my rough guess would be late March or April.

[allen]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

*Being British i dont want to see stereotypical exchange students (batgirl in batman and robin "oh hello can i have a cup of tea and a scone" bah) but i do want to see exchange students

 

Well, for your sake, as well as that of your countrymen, I promise not to have the quote for any British superhero/exchange student be: "Pip, pip, tally-ho. Rum shot there, old man."

[allen]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Perhaps there should be a brief discussion of the idea of non-school related campaigns (for example, the New Teen Titans of the Wolfman/Perez era) where the members of a team may all go to different schools. In such a campaign, school-based stories would probably be sub-plots similar to stories in normal Champions campaigns that might involve a hero's workplace.

 

Yeah... there'll be something, most likely no longer than a box or sidebar though.

 

Just answering some random questions I don't think I've answered previously....

 

There'll be an across the Ages of superheroes thing, but it's going to be brief.

 

There'll be stuff about sidekicks, legacy, and "anti-legacy" (character's parent is villain).

 

I promise to either name the High School after a fallen superhero, or its "mascot" (kind of like the idea of high school with indian or redskin or something for mascot changing it to Vanguard, and Vanguard sounds like a good mascot name to me).

[allen]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Any kind of rough idea as to when this will come out?

 

(The date on which I started this thread should give you an idea of how long I've been waiting for it... )

 

Ahhh... that's a Steve question.

[Seraphim]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Well' date=' for your sake, as well as that of your countrymen, I promise not to have the quote for any British superhero/exchange student be: "Pip, pip, tally-ho. Rum shot there, old man."[/quote']

 

 

 

I wish we did talk like that it would be a lot more fun.

 

Anyway for exchange student yeah i want to see the exchange student be stereotyped as in not fitting in and socially stereotyped, but not the country they come from stereotyped.

 

Since reading this thread i have actually started putting together a teen champions group. I wasn't excited bout the book but now i am.

 

YAY

[Jhamin]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

I wish we did talk like that it would be a lot more fun.

 

Well, ya know *you* could just start talking that way and see if it catches on with any of your Countrymen.

 

Think that might work?

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

* I want to also have the really inappropriate things like learning to drive so that it can be easier for kids to learn things that they are taking.

 

 

One fun variant on that is the teenage character who is a racing-caliber driver but who doesn't have a license to drive on the street in his secret identity. Robin may have tacit permission to drive his motorcycle at insane speeds while pursuing criminals, but if Dick Grayson still has his learners permit he can't legally drive the rest of the Titans to the movies. Sailor Uranus didn't even bother trying to get a license -- she just drove around anyway (and raced cars and motorcycles comeptitively in her Secret Identity).

 

Keep in mind that most jurisdictions today place extremeyl heavy restrictions on young drivers, and place requirements on them that young superheores might not be able to meet. (A teenager who lives by himself because his parents have been killed doesn't have a legal guardian with which to log the required training hours to get a license, for example).

 

One other thing about teen superheores who use vehicles is that they may get into a lot of trouble driving normal vehicles if they never get out of combat mode. Just because you have the skill to do all srtos of flashy manuevers doesn't make it a good idea anytime you feel like it.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Yeah... there'll be something' date=' most likely no longer than a box or sidebar though.[/quote']

 

Hmm ... just a box? I don't know about everyone else, but I was kinda looking foward to some ideas akin to the Titans more than say GenX or the New Mutants ... don't get me wrong, they deserve equal time, but I'd think that teams like The Teen Titans and New Warriors would as well ...

[allen]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Hmm ... just a box? I don't know about everyone else' date=' but I was kinda looking foward to some ideas akin to the Titans more than say GenX or the New Mutants ... don't get me wrong, they deserve equal time, but I'd think that teams like The Teen Titans and New Warriors would as well ...[/quote']

 

I'm not sure why, really. Any teen-related themes that play out in Wolfman/Perez Titans or New Warriors (only read first couple years) will be covered -- growing up and becoming independent (Robin becomes Nightwing), discovering true heritage (Donna Troy, Night Thrasher), being looked down upon by public because of age (several instances in New Warriors), born to be bad (Terra, Raven), child-parent stuff (Jericho/Deathstroke, Raven/Trigon, Marvel Boy/father). Facts of a teenager's existence will also be covered.

 

But setting-wise (which is what the original question pertained to -- superhero teams the members of which went to different schools) neither of those comics are very interesting from a Teen Champions perspective. They're basically just standard superhero fare, and other books, especially Champions, cover that kind of stuff in detail, so I don't see much reason to devote space to it in Teen Champions. I mean, did any of the Titans (Wolfman/Perez era) even go to school? Beast Boy lived with Steve Trevor and had a tutor. All the other ones were older I think. Speedball went to high school, but I don't recall anything being done there. The rest of the New Warriors didn't go to school. The New Warriors had a certain "down and out" quality (at least for the time that Night Thrasher took off) that goes with being young and that will be covered as a general Teens Don't Have Money thing.

 

As for the original question, the reason I'm saying that campaign idea is only going to get a box or a sidebar, is as Rod pointed out -- the high school simply replaces a hero's workplace. There's a couple of plot ideas there for inter-school rivalries maybe, but really everything else about that campaign idea is pretty standard for a Champions game. It's just a matter of porting over the themes and stuff presented in Teen Champions and placing them on the backburner, with one or two occasionally coming forward.

 

At least as far as I can tell... maybe we're talking about two different things?

[Kristopher]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

I think Speedball had several instances of trouble in school with other kids, etc.

 

Spiderman had his ongoing problems in school, IIRC.

 

In his own book, Robin had several problems relating to school and his civilian relationships.

 

 

On the other hand, I'm definately not saying that the book should turn into Champions 90210.

[Crimson Arrow]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Archetypes will be presented differently -- i.e.: jock' date=' skater, burn-out, etc. will be the archetypes -- then recommended standard archetypes will branch from there -- i.e.: jock as brick, jock as energy blaster, jock as martial artist, jock as weapon master (i don't know, maybe he throws trick basketballs or something ) -- so this might require more space.[/quote']

 

I like this. It might be time to dust off the Football MA from the 4th Ed version of 'Ninja Hero'.

 

I know this was talked about ages ago, but I kind of agree with you about the characters in 'Bad Medicine for Dr. Drugs'. I didn't think much of them, although one or two were interesting. I quite liked Duke, Cannonball and Dark Duchess, as I recall.

 

However, the best thing about that supplement was all the detail on being a teenager. It covered all sorts of roleplaying points. As a British person, that information on American high schools was really interesting too.

[Sociotard]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

This may have been suggested, but, considering how important sports are in high school, include a complete double elimination chart. Remember, some gamers, like me, don't know enough about sports to know what such a chart looks like, only that it determines who you play next, and if you can go to state. The nice thing is, it could be used for any of the major sports in high school.

 

Also, you might fill out the bottom part with the names of all the area high schools that will be competing. you might even (just a thought) give each high school a 'skill' level with a given sport. Like this:

Millenium High School has a 14- in Basket ball, whereas Vanguard High School has a 12-. Millenium expects to have a better chance of going to state than Vanguard does.

However, Vanguard has a 13- in Baseball and a 14- in School Spirit, where Millenium has an 11- in each. Not only will Vanguard dominate the baseball season, but they'll have more students cheering in their stands in any given sporting event.

Hmm, Skills for an organization. Interesting thought.

[steriaca]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Sailor Uranus didn't even bother trying to get a license -- she just drove around anyway (and raced cars and motorcycles comeptitively in her Secret Identity).

 

Also keep in mind that Junipi No Swallow (of Gatchman fame) had a special drivers licence to drive his dune buggy (Or was that only in Battel Of The Planets?). And Tak is a mighty fine drift racer over in Initinal D. Also, Cyborg can, and does, drive (at least the Titan Sub and his pride and joy, the Titan Car, over in the Teen Titans TV show).

 

And how old was Go Mufin (AKA Speed Racer) when he started racing anyways?

[Sketchpad]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

But setting-wise (which is what the original question pertained to -- superhero teams the members of which went to different schools) neither of those comics are very interesting from a Teen Champions perspective. They're basically just standard superhero fare, and other books, especially Champions, cover that kind of stuff in detail, so I don't see much reason to devote space to it in Teen Champions. I mean, did any of the Titans (Wolfman/Perez era) even go to school? Beast Boy lived with Steve Trevor and had a tutor. All the other ones were older I think. Speedball went to high school, but I don't recall anything being done there. The rest of the New Warriors didn't go to school. The New Warriors had a certain "down and out" quality (at least for the time that Night Thrasher took off) that goes with being young and that will be covered as a general Teens Don't Have Money thing.

 

As for the original question, the reason I'm saying that campaign idea is only going to get a box or a sidebar, is as Rod pointed out -- the high school simply replaces a hero's workplace. There's a couple of plot ideas there for inter-school rivalries maybe, but really everything else about that campaign idea is pretty standard for a Champions game. It's just a matter of porting over the themes and stuff presented in Teen Champions and placing them on the backburner, with one or two occasionally coming forward.

 

At least as far as I can tell... maybe we're talking about two different things?

 

In the current run of Teen Titans, they're playing with the idea of Raven going to school, as well as the constant threat of homework. In the Perez/Wolfman era, there was some play of school work (mostly with Dick as he was continuing his studies). I was kinda looking foward to the whole "sidekick forming team" idea, as well as something that was touched in the New Warriors, which was teens trying to work within an adult world. Maybe you are planning some of this and I'm misunderstanding ...

[allen]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Hmm, Skills for an organization. Interesting thought.

 

Yeah, I've had the same thought... and as soon as I convince someone to let me write "The Business World" supplement for Champions, I'm going to develop it for buying corporations -- like so PCs can have his own Wayne Industries or Stark International. As it stands right now, the easy way to buy a corporation is to have one big Contact, but that loses some detail, and the hard way of doing it -- with Followers and Bases and all that -- is too hard and eats up too many points, so this would provide a nice middle ground. A company with SS: Physics 11- is a run-of-mill tech firm. SS: Physics 13- is good. 15- is cutting edge. 17- is an alien conspiracy... haha... I think the rules would end up looking similar to Bases with Size equating to number of employees, Money Perk would be how well capitalized the corp is. I have other notes scribbled down somewhere, but I haven't really taken it much further than that.

[allen]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

I was kinda looking foward to the whole "sidekick forming team" idea' date=' as well as something that was touched in the New Warriors, which was teens trying to work within an adult world. Maybe you are planning some of this and I'm misunderstanding ...[/quote']

 

Sidekicks are covered, but there's no team of sidekicks, I'm afraid. The Champions Universe wasn't really built with that in mind, and rather than retrofit four to six sidekicks for a team, I made a decision to go with superhero teens in a public high school instead. I do plan on including on a sidekick NPC hero, but I'm going to have to do some finessing with the background to fit it in there.

 

NOVA is not that far off from the New Warriors. A little bit younger (I think, I was always under the impression that Nova and Namorita were in their early twenties), and they have an entire "wanted by the law" thing going on, so it changes their focus a bit, but essentially a similar team.

[MitchellS]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Yeah' date=' I've had the same thought... and as soon as I convince someone to let me write "The Business World" supplement for Champions, I'm going to develop it for buying corporations -- like so PCs can have his own Wayne Industries or Stark International. As it stands right now, the easy way to buy a corporation is to have one big Contact, but that loses some detail, and the hard way of doing it -- with Followers and Bases and all that -- is too hard and eats up too many points, so this would provide a nice middle ground. A company with SS: Physics 11- is a run-of-mill tech firm. SS: Physics 13- is good. 15- is cutting edge. 17- is an alien conspiracy... haha... I think the rules would end up looking similar to Bases with Size equating to number of employees, Money Perk would be how well capitalized the corp is. I have other notes scribbled down somewhere, but I haven't really taken it much further than that.[/quote']

The Business World sounds like a great concept for a book. Man, everything you just wrote sounds very intriguing to me. Industry and corporations are usually a big deal within character's background and really needs to be expanded upon so that players and GMs alike can have a better understanding of it, and ways to use it, by giving us more in-game applications rather then just basic information like was within Corporations.

[allen]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

The Business World sounds like a great concept for a book. Man' date=' everything you just wrote sounds very intriguing to me. Industry and corporations are usually a big deal within character's background and really needs to be expanded upon so that players and GMs alike can have a better understanding of it, and ways to use it, by giving us more in-game applications rather then just basic information like was within Corporations.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I want to write it -- I plan on pitching it at the next scheduling meeting, so wish me luck

[Sketchpad]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Sidekicks are covered, but there's no team of sidekicks, I'm afraid. The Champions Universe wasn't really built with that in mind, and rather than retrofit four to six sidekicks for a team, I made a decision to go with superhero teens in a public high school instead. I do plan on including on a sidekick NPC hero, but I'm going to have to do some finessing with the background to fit it in there.

 

NOVA is not that far off from the New Warriors. A little bit younger (I think, I was always under the impression that Nova and Namorita were in their early twenties), and they have an entire "wanted by the law" thing going on, so it changes their focus a bit, but essentially a similar team.

Cool ... thanks for the info Allen