Patriot Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 A few months ago , an Aircraft carrier was for sale on E-bay, well, my players have recently ( 2 weeks ago) got this wild hair up there backsides, and wish to buy it and turn it into a base, leaving Chicago, ....This to me is a bad Idea( but we are a democracy, and thay voted thats what they wish to do in game)...I am a bit lazy and dont feel like researching every port of call in the world. Of course this whole thing is led by the player I have ranted about before....and well, I am about on my last nerve.....13 years ago yesterday the team was created, and I have a bad feeling that it , with all its history may die soon.. Besides just straight out exiling the Player, any ideas my friends, Rich Buckmaster AKA Patriot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 If it's a US Nuclear Carrier (forget the exact class of ship that is) then only a very few ports can actually berth it. San Diego, Long Beach Rhode Island (can actually dock six simultaneously) there's one city in the NW, Portland or Seattle, forget which. I believe there's a port in South Carolina, and there is at least one in the Gulf of Mexico. Other than that - US Carriers don't dock anywhere. They float out at sea and either arilift or get a cruiser to run people back and forth to/from shore. As for the problem -- oops, someone else bought it. It sank on delivery. It's not really sea worthy, or the engine is done broken - gone. At some point a game switch from Democracy to Totalitarianism in order for the game to be saved is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Not to mention, natch, the millions it will take to provision, maintain, and fuel the thing. As well as the difficulties of hiring a properly-trained crew. And worst of all -- beating off the massed piratical raids of the Warlord and every other supervillain mastermind who thinks an aircraft carrier base might be cool. A new version of "Under Siege" to roleplay every week! Won't your players feel so *privileged*! Play your cards right and you can have them screaming in frustration at themselves -- "WHAT THE HELL WERE WE THINKING?!?" *evil DM chortle* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Depending on the game and the characters, I think that this could actually be pretty cool. Questions: *Can they afford the upkeep and effectively crew it, esp with people who can handle being attacked by supervillains and sea monsters every week? *Are they OK with seperating themselves from their private lives, or do they have the ability to get from Chicago to the carrier regardless of where it is extremely quickly? If the answers are "yes", then I'd say go for it. Having a powerful hero group with a mobile base could be a real cool thing - "Uh oh, El Presidente, the Justice Foundation Carrier just parked itself outside our territorial waters - perhaps we should reconsider our policies?" It sounds like the players have a nifty idea, but you're worried about it damaging the long-standing campaign. For that, I offer two suggested options: 1) Let them get the carrier, and somehow get it to the Great Lakes. They park it permanently offshore Chicago, effectively as a neat-looking island base. 2) Start a second game centered around the carrier. I used to have a UN-sponsored hero team called "Task Force", which could make a great name for a team with its own carrier. Give them an UNTIL/SHIELD/etc crew, and put them into the background of your main game, running them as a break from the main campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberknight Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Aircraft Carrier From what I can dig up, it might be fun to watch your players deal with the 'fun' of having such a 'cool' base. The carrier sold on eBay (based on the details provided by the seller) looks to be one of the Royal Navy's "Majestic" class ships, transferred to Australian service. Watching the heroes' faces when they try to refuel the beast should provide at least a few moments of pure delight...think about the price of a few hundred tons of high-grade fuel oil. Somebody just went from "Well off" to "Poor" in one easy stop. Once they recover from that shock, introduce them to their new base's thousand or so "DNPC - Competent Normal" ship's crew. 1940's era tech was manpower-intensive, and steam turbine propulsion systems were an order of magnitude worse than most (if I recall correctly, lighting off one boiler was a task that required eight men, and there are *lots* of boilers). If they're still interested, you might bring up the idea of upkeep. There's a lot of it. In fact, there's a metric TON of it. To make matters worse, the hull in question is ~60 years of age, which makes maintenance a high priority. In short, start showing your players the down-side to the idea, and I'm fairly sure that they'll decide to go elsewhere...and if they don't, they've just opened up a whole host of plot hooks and one-off adventures for you. Cyberknight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Warning: I'm going off my known to be flaky memory. The carrier was an old British one, non-nuclear and if I recall properally took $700,000 to fuel up. Decent range, could cross the Pacific. I think the cost was $6 million? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Still for Sale Not sure where I got the refuel cost, but I was only off by $500,000 on the price of the ship. Crew would be 1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 The joy of floating your heroes and their wards on an antique floating target can't be overestimated. Wouldn't the Poseiden adventure be better with a supervillain added into the mix, and a crew of heroes stuck inside with a crew they feel responsible for? Dig out the BBB and resurrect The Maine - give him a hundred more points and buy off those activation rolls. Sink 'em, or try to anyway. Having a public, weak home base that is surrounded by an environment deadly to the crew has bad idea written all over it. All great stories start with a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Originally posted by ghost-angel If it's a US Nuclear Carrier (forget the exact class of ship that is) then only a very few ports can actually berth it. San Diego, Long Beach Rhode Island (can actually dock six simultaneously) there's one city in the NW, Portland or Seattle, forget which. I believe there's a port in South Carolina, and there is at least one in the Gulf of Mexico. Other than that - US Carriers don't dock anywhere. They float out at sea and either arilift or get a cruiser to run people back and forth to/from shore. As for the problem -- oops, someone else bought it. It sank on delivery. It's not really sea worthy, or the engine is done broken - gone. At some point a game switch from Democracy to Totalitarianism in order for the game to be saved is needed. Bremerton, WA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Photon Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 ""Catapult: 1 Mactaggart Scott C – 3 steam powered 8.5 degree launch"" Just picture it! Now your flying characters can really zoom off in a hurry! Wonder how far it could throw Grond, Ripper and other CU heavies.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Listen to Nancy Reagan on this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewings Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Vancouver, BC could berth it, but I'm not sure if nuclear carriers are allowed into the port. So I think the thing to do would be to let them buy the carrier - and deal with the problems of owning it. Fuel, berthing fees, feeding and paying the crew (non-trivial, trust me), insurance, licensing, maintenance, etc. Unless someone in the group bought "Filthy Rich" as a Perk, they might not be able to afford the upkeep. And that's without any comic book complications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Random Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Well, unless they are willing to cough up the points to make it a permanent base, then I would say make them pay through the nose for it money wise, and the first time some supervillain attacks their base, it's most likely going to go to the bottom. Now if they were willing to actually pay for this with character points, then I would give it a little more leeway, other than that it just ends up being expensive scenery. And we all know how long scenery lasts in the comics now don't we:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 The carrier in question is a rather small support carrier capable of holding 20 planes. Dimensions: Overall length 212m; Beam 24.4m (hull waterline); Draft 7.15 m (full loaded) Oh and the Steam Catapult: 0ne Mitchell Brown steam catapult with a capacity to operate aircraft up to 13,640 kgs, launching them at 110 knots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 The carrier wouldn't need 1000 crew if they weren't planning on flying more than one or two aircraft off of it--probably could cut that number in half. If they just were going to have engine/propulsion/navigation related crew, plus support for them, they might even be able to get away with about 250 crew(about 60 points worth of followers). In the alternative, if they have the money and a resident Stark-type on the team, they could automate most of the functions and get away with having maybe 5 dozen crew on the ship. Just to point out, it would be safer for the public for them to have a base outside of the downtown area, anyway. Don't quite see how this really threatens the campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Archer Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Anyone else here Ex-Navy? Well, I'm a bit of Naval history buff as well as working for a Navy shipyard so I can point out a couple of things. At only $6.5 million you can bet that ship's been stripped to the bone. Electronics go first, then all your other equipment including most of the engine control systems. You can also figure all of the generators will be gone, and at the price for a ton of copper, all the wiring. I think the thing would only be good for scrap. That being said, let's step into the world of Champions. It wouldn't be hard to find a place to berth it. Any International port could handle it and since its a conventionally fueled vessel, nuclear power is not an issue. Most of the ports listed by others are Naval bases, Bremerton, Charleston, Newport, Norfolk, Portsmouth, Long Beach, Alameda, San Diego, Pearl Harbor but this is a small carrier, only a bit under 700 feet. You could set up a base at Hunter's Point, Brooklyn Naval yard, Mare Island or any other naval base closed by BRAC. I am sure the government would lease a superhero team the space particularly if they are on good terms with Top Men. A note on Brit carriers from tha WWII era, they ARE pretty well armored, for a carrier. They sacrificed aircraft capacity for survivability. The Americans took the other tack, preferring the extra aircraft and resulting in such things as the damage taken by the USS Franklyn when a kamikaze hit her. A Brit carrier like this one probably would have called away sweepers and kept going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Originally posted by Whitewings Vancouver, BC could berth it, but I'm not sure if nuclear carriers are allowed into the port. Nope. Vancouver is a Nuclear-Free Zone. Then again, it's not a nuclear vessel (or "wessel," if you prefer), so the only reason I bring this up is to show off my knowledge of Vancouver, BC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 hmm how about a super science refit anti gravity genrators and quantum flux reactor. go for the full SHIELD heli carrier vibe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 No need to frustrate them. If your group really wants a ship, give them a ship. At least for a while. This doesn't need to be a permanent alteration of the campaign's premises, unless you want it to be so. It can just be a temporary change of pace. Your campaign might benefit from that. It is understandable you don't want to do all the research involved in a mobile naval campaign, but there are ways around that too. How realistic is your campaign? If it is four-color, you might try this. Have a villain use an extradimensional device to maroon your heroes and their ship to another dimension. Have them look for a way home. Run a few "naval" games in said dimension. Say, it might be a fantasy world with magically-empowered pirates*. Play a battle - one carrier versus a whole fleet of lesser ships. Make them enjoy having a carrier. Then, as they finally locate a way back to Earth, let the carrier reappear, say, smack in the middle of Arizona rather than in the sea the started from. Just an example, of course. Depending on your campaign, there might be other ways. * Just because I love pirates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Assuming the characters are Avengers-class, globally-active heroes, I see no reason why they couldn't retrofit an old aircraft carrier as their base. Doubly so if the team has a scientific supergenius available. OTOH, this isn't the kind of thing I'd let any old group of 350ers get a hold of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwolf Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 K, I spent 20 years in the Navy...on carriers and in squadrons. A ship of this size would carry about 1000 ships crew, the airwing would be in addition to this. She probably carries about 750,000 gallons of diesel fuel for her quad boilers, as she has four engine rooms (one for each screw). This ship most likely has a top speed of 30 knots. She also carries another 750,000 gallons of aircraft fuel (most likely JP5). The oldest carrier that I was stationed on was the USS Saratoga, which is about twice the size of this ship. It cosgt us about $150,000 per day to sit at berth and around $300,000 per day when underway. And those prices where back in the 70s. This fuel and the food supplies lasted us about 2-3 weeks when underway. There are in fact about 50 ports around the world that can berth this ship. Most of the time when carriers stay anchored about 10 miles outside of a port it is because we can neither confirm nor deny the presence of nuclear weapons, so most foreign powers prefer we keep our distance (like 10 miles would matter). In these places we used motor whale boats to shuttle sailors back and forth between the ship and the port. The average ride was about 45 minutes. There are a couple of carriers that have been turned into tourist attractions, outside of that they cost so much to maitain and operate that most governments can't even afford them let alone private groups or entities. There is a very real reason that only the US Navy operates carriers on the Supercarrier class....no one else can afford them. An we only have 16 of them in operation. And of those only about 10 are operational, the rest are in various stages of maintenance/refit. I hope this helps and provides some perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 I like the idea of putting it in the lake as a distinctive looking base instead of as a vehicle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 The words "haunted ship" keep floating to the top of my thoughts ... -AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Posted March 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 they are 350 pointers , and they are upset that when i told then they were gonna fight bank robbers for a little while used the Fox of crime they wanna have an aircraft carrier , but fight thugs.....I can only bend so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Basically, if they want to keep it, they need to buy it with points. So find out how much they can afford, points-wise. Perhaps they initially can't afford the movement capabilities (so it's just a stationary base). If they can't actually afford all the hexes, then you could state that not all of the ship is in a habitable state, until an extensive cleanup is performed (i.e. more points are spent). Basically, in Hero, you get what you pay for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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