Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

[The Horror]

First game of the campaign. The PCs fight some VIPER guys, and leave them all for the authorities to find after they deal with them. One of the PCs however is a telepath, and suggested they take one of them for interrogation.

 

Next session they will have full access to this guy, and they are going to want to know who he works for, what they were doing there, where the nest is and so on.

 

How do I handle this without giving away too much info? I can just give the guy high levels of Mental Defence, but I know that this will likely happen time and time again - it might be stretching it a bit if all captured guys have 20 points in Mental Defence. I don't have a problem with them finding out a fair amount of info, but certain things would be out of the question (like the nest location). It's just too early on in the campaign for that.

 

Maybe he doens't know where the nest is? Maybe he swallows a cyanide tablet? Maybe his mind was wiped? Any suggestions? How do I do this without stretching credibility? Like I say, I'm specially worried because I see this happening time and time again.

 

 

 

The Horror

[Chuckg]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

Do the superheroes have to obey the law, or are they vigilante rogues?

 

If door #1, remember that in the CU, telepathic interrogation of a suspect is illegal without either:

 

a) a search warrant

 

or the subject's concsent

 

or c) an immeidate life-threatening emergency (like "the nuke goes off in two minutes! for the love of god, Mind Man, get me that disarm code!")

 

 

 

a) will require them to get past VIPER's lawyers... he *did* get to call his lawyer, right? If not, ohhhh, the lawsuits they're gonna get...

 

yeah right!

 

c) isn't it always the DM's choice whether or not one of those is going on?

[Hermit]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

Break the local VIPER set up into cells. The captured agent knows the small area his group works out of, and has no idea where the Nest is. This gives the PCs a chance to find the member of the cell who DOES know more... if they're lucky or cunning enough, or at least search for clues.

 

Now, for the first time, this should be rewarded with success if the telpathy check is high enough (after all, the Mentalist paid points for that power), but when the first cell falls, have VIPER higherups get wise, and start making countermeasures. Have them begin spread disinformation to their agents so when the next time one of them is captured, it eventually leads the PCs into a trap, or at the least keeps them running in circles.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

Excellent suggestions so far. However, if none of those work for you...

 

Remember that low-level flunkies of major organizations typically know little of import, beyond perhaps the location of their local base. If VIPER is aware that the PCs have access to a telepath, and reason to believe that that telepath will scan their agent, they will probably have contingencies ready. These could include:

 

Bugging out of their base so that when the heroes arrive they find nothing but an empty facility - perhaps with booby-traps left behind;

 

Anticipating that the heroes will learn of their location from the agent, and setting up an ambush for the heroes;

 

Planting deliberate disinformation in their agents to lead the heroes away from VIPER's true objective, and perhaps into a trap as above. Note that this gambit should probably be used only once, unless you want to foster resentmen in your players and paranoia in your PCs.

[The Horror]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

Thanks Hermit. I think I'll most definately do exactly as you suggested.

 

I'm not using CU ChuckG. As in I'm using a fair bit of it here and there, but the history of supers is all changed. The PCs are playing the first generation of superheroes, in modern day Megalopolis (Millenium City). No UNTIL, no DOSPA, no PRIMUS, none of the CU supervillains. I plan to introduce UNTIL and DOSPA over the next few sessions, but they don't know anything about that. Hitting them with the lawsuits and numerous charges should be good though. Depravation of liberty and assault with a deadly weapon come to mind.

 

So far they've been behaving like criminals. They've broken into the offices of the Department of Homeland Security to install a remote bypass into their mainframe, they've broken through police lines to get to scenes of the crime, they've been beating up random drug pushers trying to get to the guys above them by sheer brute force, and they have caused tens of thousands of dollars of property damage in the first session alone. The telepath reads everybody's thoughts without remorse, ranging from clerks behind office desks to police officers on patrol.

 

I figure that if I introduce DOSPA next session, that they can get an offer from them - either sign up as a registered superhero team bound by the law, or be hunted down and put away like criminals.

 

I think they'll choose to go their own way though.

 

 

 

The Horror

[Badger]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

Breaking up like Chuckg did.

 

Basically, I would let the mentalist know before hand that invading one's mind is going to be considered highly immoral in this setting without the consent of the one whose mind is being invaded. So if they are law abiders this will be difficult. Because essentially if I am GM the search warrant would not be granted for the search of one's mind and even if it is an emergency situation he'll have to expect brutality lawsuits on him afterwards from the lawyers (hey you know a defense lawyer would argue it that way) and it would be doubtful the suspect will give him consent. Course if they be vigilantes "The ends justify the means

[Southern Cross]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

of course,as a last resort,you could have the agent develop mental powers as a result of the telepathic interrogation...

[death tribble]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

The agent might know some locations and some personnel including any resident paranormals.

They might not know the computer passwords, that the vehicles are bugged with locator devices, as are the guns etc

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

1) Nest Leader confides in squad leader X that Hero Y (one of the team) is secretly working for Viper, and has excellent post-hypnotic defenses in place to thwart telepathic discovery. Squad leader X is instructed that if they encounter the heroes, he should maneuver his team so that Hero Y can provide them a distraction/"accidental" getaway.

 

2) Nest Leader sends squad leader X and team out on high-profile mission, sure to bring heroes in. (Evacuate and booby-trap heck out of Nest after they leave.) Likely that squad leader X has also told his team of the "mole", to improve their following his lead, and to impress them at how much he knows/the NL trusts him. Heroes show up, trash agents, interrogate.

 

3) How will the team react? Dissent, distrust? Or will they be more cautious in what they believe from telepathy? What if next time the "secret agent" is the mayor? The chief of police? Their local congressman? Will they follow up all leads and become seriously hunted, or will they just become incredibly paranoid?

[freakboy6117]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

Let them have the first one for free not that this low level flunky has any real info.

The next time the agents start being psychically conditioned to remove information trained in psychic defense or if you want to be real nasty implant a PSI BOMB either a literal explosive device activated by telepathic interference or a psionic virus that enters the mind of the telepath and does something nasty a slow transfor m which builds as he invades more agents eventually turning him to the dark side? Or it could just a command his heart to stop or leaves him catatonic

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

Let them have the first one for free not that this low level flunky has any real info.

The next time the agents start being psychically conditioned to remove information trained in psychic defense or if you want to be real nasty implant a PSI BOMB either a literal explosive device activated by telepathic interference or a psionic virus that enters the mind of the telepath and does something nasty a slow transfor m which builds as he invades more agents eventually turning him to the dark side? Or it could just a command his heart to stop or leaves him catatonic

 

I can see VIPER doing hypnotherapy (5 or 10 MD only vs telepathy on their agents), and I can see the issue of not wanting telepathy to make things to easy for the characters. At the same time, however, if the first consideration the first time a PC uses his telepathy which he paid points for is "how can I reduce or elimninate the benefits of this power", maybe the better answer would be to tell the player you didn't consider the ramifications of telepathy on your campaign when you approved the character, and you would like him to revise the character to remove, reduce or limit his telepathy, and spend the points somewhere else instead.

 

Telepathy should not always be 100% effective, but contriving means to avoid it working on mook level agents seems like only one step away from taking the power away entirely - if you're going to make it ineffective most of the time, why not just tell the player "slap a -2 "no conscious control" on it, because it's only going to work on those rare instances that I want it to!"

 

If you plan on running a campaign filled with mysteries, allowing telepathy is a bad move. If I, as a player, had paid for (say) 12d6 of Telepathy, I think I'm within my rights to think that power is going to be as valuable and effective as 12d6 of energy blast. Using it to interrogate prisoners seems perfectly reasonable to me. That's not to say the mooks would or should have all the informaton the characters need to topple VIPER world-wide, but (as someone has already pointed out), he should know enough to move the characters up to the next level on the chain.

[BlackSword]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

At first I was thinking of some sort of hypno-therapy, but reading the other posts I have changed my mind. The following comments are not new, but my own summary of how I might consider this situation (fortunataly no telepaths in our group, the only player that would abuse a telepath is fortuntaly more occupied trying to munchkin a blaster). If there are other telepaths in the world, then likely Viper would make some move to protect itself from telepaths getting hold of its minions.

 

(a) has two options

a1) Hypno-therapy is expensive and time consuming so its unlikely a mook will get the treatment. Since telepaths are known in the world he will most likely be protected by being ignorant. He will know a few things, but not enough to reveal then entire plot. He knows that he has to rob a bank, but not where the money will go or what it will be used for.

a2) All Viper agents do go through the Academy. During the training they would get minimal hypno-therapy.

 

The telepath should also get some information if they make their roll. As pointed out, the telepath did pay for the power, they should get some use for it. However, telepathy shouldn't be used as a "Force GM to reveal entire plot with players doing no work, 13-". I might use the hypnotherapy as follows (haven't looked into mental powers closely so adjust as needed); for every +4 the mentalist gets above the target number, reveal one extra piece of pertinent information before the hypnotherapy kicks in. Hypnotherapy will jumble the agents mind so the mentalists can't make heads or tails of the data he receives. The unfortunate side effect is that the agent becomes a vegetable for several weeks before he recovers with no memory of his time in Viper.

 

c) Senior members of Viper will have extra training and may have limited metal defenses.

 

Clues shouldn't give away the entire plot, but should give helpful (or sometimes deceitful) information as much as a successful streetwise roll or other path of investigation.

[CourtFool]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

Telepathy can be a real plot killer. Something to consider in future campaigns.

 

I also have to agree that constantly limiting its effectiveness is not fair to the player. I would be inclined to let them have one. Maybe not the entire VIPER base, but enough to really disrupt current operations. Of course VIPER should learn from this weakness and be better prepared next time. I think disseminating false information down the ranks is the most effective and VIPER-like tactic. Cheap, quick and easy. So what if it puts lower members in jeapordy?

 

Considering the actions of your characters, VIPER might try to recruit them. Would this make the PCs think twice about their actions? Would they use it as an opportunity to really hit VIPER hard? Would they join? Any of these possibilities can lead to some interesting campaign twists.

 

As mentioned many times before, if the PCs act like villians make sure the world around them treats them like villians. No one trusts them. The authorities constantly harrass them. Superheroes come after them.

[Chuckg]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

And the smarter supervillain masterminds laugh out loud, because framing people who already have bad reps with the cops is as easy as tracking Grond through a china shop.

[Ghost who Walks]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

Anti-Mind Control Conditioning: Simulate Death, Only to resist mental Powers(-2)

 

After putting the poor flunky into a coma, the authorities pull the evil telepath away from their victim.

 

Its also in how you handle telepathy. If the subject (The VIPER guy) is actively resisting, the player may only get images of stuff. If asked about their headquarters, he gets a building. If asked about their weapons, they might see images of weapons that guy has used. Asked how many people are in VIPER, he flashes an image of how many he thinks are in it...millions and millions. He may also show images of people he thinks/suspects are in VIPER, but actually aren't.

 

An especially strong psionic may be able to relive specific events of the subjects life, almost like retrocognition (I use that IMC a lot)

 

That way the PC's get the info, but at least we get to have fun doing it.

 

Just remember, the human mind is not an open book.

 

IMC, there is a lot of anti-psionic prejudice (they replace mutants and lepers). A lot of it is encouraged by VIPER, just for this reason.

[Hermit]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

It's just my opinion but sometimes I see GMs get so riled against telepathy/retrocognition and other "Mystery Busters" that they over react and make it useless everytime. This does indeed lead to understandibly frustrated players. GMs who don't want those powers shouldn't allow them in the first place and should be up front about it.

 

It's one thing to have the NPCs adapt logically, but another to nix it 100% effectively right from the get go.

 

The other thing that I was wondering about the law... let's say the Telepath reads the mind of the VIPER agent. Now, while heroes are supposed to be role models of honesty etc... is one Agent swearing up and down that he was mind read by a hero automatically going to believed? How will the courts (if it ever GETS to court) prove it?

[Chuckg]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

"Mr. Justice, will you kindly tell the court how you found the enemy base? Please remember that you are under oath."

[Hermit]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

"Mr. Justice' date=' will you kindly tell the court how you found the enemy base? Please remember that you are under oath."[/quote']

 

Right... my point is, Mr Justice might decide (in a Bronze or Iron Age gaming system) to lie about it... even under Oath, depending on his psych lims etc. Technically, super heroes break the law all the time, even in the official CU (The note about how many super heroes just ignore the registration Act for example).

 

Let's not even get into Anti-Mask laws... which, I admit, probably don't exist as much in a super hero world.

[Chuckg]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

True -- however, since you don't usually use Telepathy if there's another way for you to get the info, Mr. Justice will have to come up with a very believable lie to explain an otherwise highly improbable occurence.

 

And how often can he do this same routine in the same courthouse before people start looking funny at him?

 

The more useful intelligence data is, the more it says "It took one damn big leak to make me!".

[Magmarock]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

One option would be to have a sniper take out the agent before he can talk. Nothing ends a converstion quicker than brain-matter hitting the wall. But I think this is a drastic action for the GM to take.

 

 

Personally, I think that the GM should allow the mentalist to use his powers. I think that it is cruel to discriminate against a certain powerset. If a GM dislikes mental powers so much, don't allow them in the game. But if you do allow them, please don't take it out on the Player who is running a mentalist PC. That's just plain wrong. Besides, there is a chance the mentalist will not get level of Telepathy he needs to get the requested info.

 

 

That said, there are a lot of good suggestions in the previous posts. I think it's ok for the heroes to get some information that would push the story forward. The trick is, for the GM to plan for this development. Expect that at least one agent will be captured and interrogated. Better yet, if two are captured, each might have different info that separately wouldn't be worth anything but combined may mean the difference between failure and success for the heroes.

 

Keep in mind that hostile NPCs can be a good source for feeding leads to the heroes too.

 

 

Mags

[Kirby]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

"Mr. Justice' date=' will you kindly tell the court how you found the enemy base? Please remember that you are under oath."[/quote']

"We interrogated the prisoner until he slowly gave us clues. There was no one 'smoking gun' answer. If you'd like, we have all three hours of the interrogation that I could read back to you."

 

Or, "Define 'find' for me. Oh, and it wasn't really me that found it, I was behind Mr. Brick."

 

Of course, I think the "telepathy is illegal" is about as effective as France trying to outlaw war decades ago. What evidence is there of telepathy? If telepathy is illegal, does that include Dionne Warwick and her Psychic Friends? Madame Cleo? What about stage magicians using card tricks? Can you ask someone to think of a number between 1 and 100?

 

From the scenario that was put forth, let the PC get what information he can from an extremely low-level VIPER agent. The NPC doesn't know what the GM knows. I mean, who expects a lowly VIPER agent to say "The Supreme Serpent is really this, and you can find his hidey cave here?" The suggestion of VIPER cells is great. Also, maybe after a few mind probes, the VIPER nest leader figures out what may be going on and pays for a VIPER mentalist to come in and build up agent resistance to mind probes, as part of the city's standard requirements. Maybe 5 points MD only versus telepathy.

 

Finally, there is the GM apologizing for allowing telepathy. He can admit he didn't see it as being that powerful and asks the player to reconsider either eliminating it or reducing it (maybe down to 4 or 6 dice). As compensation, the GM can say that whatever level the PC has, most mentalist villains will have the same level, that way it is fair both ways. Or he can say up front that he's going to make some villain mentalists and base their telepathic power level off of the PC. He then asks the player if he wants to reduce his level or keep it where it's at, but if he raises it, one of the mentalist villains will have the opportunity to raise it.

 

Personally, I don't find this such a huge deal, unless on their very first run the PC already has like 10d6 or 12d6. But that's just me. I hope this helps. By the way, how many dice of telepathy does this guy have?

[Kirby]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

Don't punish the PC/Player!

 

You wouldn't give all VIPER agents an extra 10-20 PD because the group has a brick, would you?

[Chuckg]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

> "We interrogated the prisoner until he slowly gave us clues. There was no

> one 'smoking gun' answer. If you'd like, we have all three hours of the >

> interrogation that I could read back to you."

 

"You interrogated someone for three hours without allowing him access to his lawyer? Mr. Viper Agent, did you waive right to counsel?"

 

"Hell no!"

 

"The jury will disregard any and all evidence obtained from Mr. Justice's interrogation *or* from the VIPER base located by the information from such interrogation, as per the 'fruit of the poison tree' doctrine. And the attorney general's office will please open an investigation into Mr. Justice's conduct as regards the possibility of illegal detention and prisoner abuse."

 

[snip]

> Of course, I think the "telepathy is illegal" is about as effective as France

> trying to outlaw war decades ago. What evidence is there of telepathy?

 

In a superhero universe? Lots.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

First game of the campaign. The PCs fight some VIPER guys, and leave them all for the authorities to find after they deal with them. One of the PCs however is a telepath, and suggested they take one of them for interrogation.

 

Next session they will have full access to this guy, and they are going to want to know who he works for, what they were doing there, where the nest is and so on.

 

How do I handle this without giving away too much info? I can just give the guy high levels of Mental Defence, but I know that this will likely happen time and time again - it might be stretching it a bit if all captured guys have 20 points in Mental Defence. I don't have a problem with them finding out a fair amount of info, but certain things would be out of the question (like the nest location). It's just too early on in the campaign for that.

 

Maybe he doens't know where the nest is? Maybe he swallows a cyanide tablet? Maybe his mind was wiped? Any suggestions? How do I do this without stretching credibility? Like I say, I'm specially worried because I see this happening time and time again.

 

 

 

The Horror

 

IMO... give 'em everything. Everything the agent would know. Partial floor plans, number of agents, other agent names, villain support, bosses... plans, weapons, etc. Don't hold back. Let the heroes be powerful. Let telepathy be as powerful as it should be, especially in these interogation situations. Have fun when the players use this information to come up with great plans... and by have fun, I don't mean screw them over... I mean, if the plan is effective, it should be somewhat effective come game time. It won't be foolproof... but hey... the players will enjoy being successful. Having their powers should mean that sometimes they just have a huge advantage. That's why they are SUPER after all.

 

Let them sweat all the little things. Let them worry about "What DIDN'T this guy know?" If you can't come up with a few surprises to make the actual attack interesting, well... then you really need to work on your GM skills.

 

This is easy. The players write the scenario for you. You just respond to what they do... and if they are stupid, or overlook the obvious, or just make a sloppy plan... THEN they pay for it... but if they are good... cooperative... strategic planners... with flexibility and adaptability... then maybe there is no reason why they shouldn't have a blow-out victory.

 

THEN... later in the game... when the team becomes known for having a psychic who rips open people's minds... that can provide for some seriously paranoid gaming... as villains change their tactics... VIPER starts planting mind-bombs in their agents... and the team telepath is the main target of EVERY VILLAIN OUT THERE... which is as it should be... because he's the scariest member of the team.

 

In the end... let your players win the ones they earn. If it screws with your plans... well that is to be expected. You are the GM, and the good ones respond to what the players do... not the other way around. Doesn't mean they'll always succeed... but it proves to them that you are fair... that you reward a good plan and effective power use... not just find loopholes to stick it to them because it doesn't fit your story.

[Magmarock]

Re: Suggestions? Telepathic PCs just captured VIPER agent

 

In the end... let your players win the ones they earn. If it screws with your plans... well that is to be expected. You are the GM' date=' and the good ones respond to what the players do... not the other way around. Doesn't mean they'll always succeed... but it proves to them that you are fair... that you reward a good plan and effective power use... not just find loopholes to stick it to them because it doesn't fit your story.[/quote']

 

I agree with your entire post, but this last bit should be written down in every GM's notebook. I might just add this as a quote for my posts, I like it that much!

 

 

Mags