So, why is longevity so expensive?

[Narthon]

I've never seen a campaign where ageing actually mattered, other than as a hook or as flavor. If the GM wants your character to be around in the far future, he will be there, and if he doesn't want that, no amount of unageing will protect him.

 

The only thing the ageing life support protects you from is the occasional NND or transform attack.

 

For the cost of being immortal, you can breathe underwater. I think breathing under water is of much more use in most campaigns than simply living a long time if nothing kills you.

 

For the cost of living 1600 years, you could instead never sleep, effectivly increasing your character's potential to do good by 1/3.

 

For the cost of living 800 years, you can survive unprotected in the antarctic.

 

In any game I can think of, I don't see how long life actually compares to the other life supports (other than the immunities, they are a whole other set of problems).

 

I think long life and immortality should cost at most a couple of points, for the added advantage of having an excuse to why you knew Moses or George Washington personally, but should mostly just be free flavor, like the rest of your background.

 

 

What do you guys think?

[Metaphysician]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

Yeah, Longevity is mostly flavor and SFX justification. OTOH, its not really more expensive than alot of other flavor purchases, and its an SFX that justifies a *lot*.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

Yeah' date=' Longevity is mostly flavor and SFX justification. OTOH, its not really more expensive than alot of other flavor purchases, and its an SFX that justifies a *lot*.[/quote']

 

Yeah ... doesn't Cateran from CKC have a *whole* lot of knowledges and languages? Of course, it must be admitted that, in a lot of games, those things aren't particularly important.

[Sean Waters]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

Because it is cool. First power I'd buy if I was making a character sheet up for me. It is not expensive, and telling people you remember the French Revolution first hand (not the one in the 1960s...) has to be worth major kudos. Don't like it? Don't buy it. It is worth it IMO even if you double the cost. Twice.

[Narthon]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

Yes, it does justify a lot, but so does falling into a vat of experamental chemicals, or having a father who worked in a nuclear facility, or even getting kidnaped by aliens and having your body replaced/rebuilt.

 

Last I checked, all of those are free.

[Sean Waters]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

Yes, it does justify a lot, but so does falling into a vat of experamental chemicals, or having a father who worked in a nuclear facility, or even getting kidnaped by aliens and having your body replaced/rebuilt.

 

Last I checked, all of those are free.

 

So is having lived 10000 years, as a background. Background does not justify your abilities, it just explains how you got them. If you fell in the vat, does that mean you are immune to chemicals, even experimental ones? Probably not. Longevity just allows you to avoid the strain of aging in game. You don't like it, you don't buy it. It is not expensive.

[Narthon]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

So is having lived 10000 years, as a background. Background does not justify your abilities, it just explains how you got them.

 

Yes, but any GM I've ever had will want a pretty good explanation of why I didn't age for 10,000 years, and suddenly do now.

 

Longevity just allows you to avoid the strain of aging in game.

 

Part of my problem with the price is that I've never been in a game that there is and normal strain form aging, or that aging is an issue unless it is some kind of withering attack.

[OddHat]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

I wouldn't mind seeing it broken down into 1 pnt = Long Lived, 2 pnts = Does not age, but I don't mind it at the 5 point level. If I do ee a player spend points on it, I try to make sure to have him run into situations where his first hand experience of the past might be handy, and at least once to send him up against someone with an NND RKA Does Body versus Unaging. Lets him show off a bit.

[SirViss]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

I don't think that it is particularly expensive, but then again I have gamed longer with GURPS than HERO, and Longevity is a lot more expensive in that system.

 

Mostly, I can see this as being something the GM can use to give the group some info, through that particular character, as he might have lived through some historical events that might have some bearing on the camapign. It also permits you to have a lot more KS, just because the character might have been around for so long.

 

One thing I would have to say, is that the Perk has to be "used" before the beginning of the campaign, meaning the character has to be a lot older then the rest of the party, and should have skills and/or powers to support a character of that age. The reason I say this is, if your character is as young as the rest of the group, and has nothing that differentiate him/her from the rest, then he has no reason to actually buy the Perk. You could just write "he is long lived" on the character sheet, and only pay for point for it if he attains great age through his life experiences. This could be as a recurring character in more then one campaign, or if there is some attack that could age the character (like the Ghost's ability in D&D use to do), or something else like that.

 

Basically, you shouldn't pay points for something that gives you nothing (or very little). But on the same token, you should not play a character that wouldn't take advantage of the fact that he would be long-lived.

 

Now, I am starting to ramble, so I will leave it at that.

[Sean Waters]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

I wouldn't mind seeing it broken down into 1 pnt = Long Lived' date=' 2 pnts = Does not age, but I don't mind it at the 5 point level. If I do ee a player spend points on it, I try to make sure to have him run into situations where his first hand experience of the past might be handy, and at least once to send him up against someone with an NND RKA Does Body versus Unaging. Lets him show off a bit. [/quote']

 

 

You could roll 1d6 per point in longevity, like a Luck roll each gaming session, and, on a 6, some beneficial effect potentially (i.e. if the player actually role plays the situation) occurs (a temporary contact or favour, perhaps), based on your long history.

 

Mind you some characters have only just become immortal, so that is not really fair. Who not just pay for it, or not. If aging is not an in-game problem, remember that the reverse of my earlier comment is also true: a particular background does not require you to take certain powers. It is not expensive in absolute terms, so I really wouldn't sweat it. If it bothers you that much, persuade your GM to allow 1point: long lived, 2 points: immortal and have done.

[Rapier]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

One thing I would have to say' date=' is that the Perk [b']has[/b] to be "used" before the beginning of the campaign, meaning the character has to be a lot older then the rest of the party, and should have skills and/or powers to support a character of that age. The reason I say this is, if your character is as young as the rest of the group, and has nothing that differentiate him/her from the rest, then he has no reason to actually buy the Perk. You could just write "he is long lived" on the character sheet, and only pay for point for it if he attains great age through his life experiences. This could be as a recurring character in more then one campaign, or if there is some attack that could age the character (like the Ghost's ability in D&D use to do), or something else like that.

The problem is that even an immortal character was once 20 years old, and hung around with 20 year old people. Simply because you are immortal doesn't necessarily mean you have benn around forever. What's to stop someone from just becoming immortal?

[Solomon]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

It's priced consistently with other mostly "flavor" stuff, like having COM 20 for 5 points.

[OddHat]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

You could roll 1d6 per point in longevity, like a Luck roll each gaming session, and, on a 6, some beneficial effect potentially (i.e. if the player actually role plays the situation) occurs (a temporary contact or favour, perhaps), based on your long history.

 

Mind you some characters have only just become immortal, so that is not really fair. Who not just pay for it, or not. If aging is not an in-game problem, remember that the reverse of my earlier comment is also true: a particular background does not require you to take certain powers. It is not expensive in absolute terms, so I really wouldn't sweat it. If it bothers you that much, persuade your GM to allow 1point: long lived, 2 points: immortal and have done.

 

Um, TRL, it doesn't "bother" me at all. I just wouldn't mind seeing it changed. As I posted, if a player used it, I'd try find some way to work it into an adventure.

[SirViss]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

The problem is that even an immortal character was once 20 years old' date=' and hung around with 20 year old people. Simply because you are immortal doesn't necessarily mean you have benn around forever. What's to stop someone from just becoming immortal?[/quote']

 

Yes, I agree with what you are saying. I should have gone a bit more in depth to what I ment. I believe that a character's background should be examined by the GM before he is allowed into a game. I think most GM will agree with me on that point. Now, if a player wants his character to be a person that "lives forever" (or a very longtime), I don't think I would have a big problem with that usually, if it fits the campaign. But I would make sure to ask him how old the character was at the beginning of the campaign. if he said "20 years old", I wouldn't make him pay for Longevity, but would make sure that he took a 0-point perk to note that his character had the capaicity to live to "X" years old. I wouldn'y allow anyone to "become immortal" without some VERY good reason to support it (like a "radiation accident" in a supers campaign ).

 

P.S.: This is what I think now. I am new to GMing, and one of the reason i come to these boards is to see what problems other players and GMs have before they come up in my campaign. Of course, since this is a VERY new idea, I will probably mofidy my opinion before I actually apply it in a campaign.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

I dont agree that it is over priced. 5 Points is a drop in the bucket for immortality, even if it never comes up.

 

On the other hand if you dont like it dont take it. Simple.

[Dust Raven]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

I go back and forth on this issue from time to time. Right now I like it as it is. I consider it a Perk for character that have already been arround for ages (can make INT rolls to recall relevant information from the past). For younger characters (still young or have just received the ability), it's provides better protection against aging effects than it does for the older types. If a character is actually Immortal though, I can't think of any additional benifit to provide the younger ones. But I keep the cost regardless because it's only a few points and so far no one's complained (in my group).

[zornwil]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

Have any power that involves aging someone in your game and you'll find out why it's pretty darn useful...

 

Since we used to have Dr. Time who did just that...these undying elementals are tough to deal with sometimes!

[Vorsch]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

For 5 pts you have the single most desired ability of mankind.

 

If you dont pay for it, you cant have it. Otherwise all characters say "im Immortal, just young"

[Vondy]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

5 Points isn't a lot. Its the cost of a skill with a +1 modifier.

[Zanthis]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

And don't forget you can cover the cost of it with a Distinctive Feature: Long Life (assuming you are really old at the start of the game). This would include things like having a birth certificate but no death certificate and other similar stuff that someone researching your character's paper trail could figure out and cause them to start asking questions and compromise your character's identity.

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

My own opinion is that Immortality is too expensive at 5 pts. In my gaming experience, that LS very rarely comes into play. Actually, most of the LS powers are a little overpriced, for the same reason.

[teh bunneh]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

My own opinion is that Immortality is too expensive at 5 pts. In my gaming experience' date=' that LS very rarely comes into play. Actually, most of the LS powers are a little overpriced, for the same reason.[/quote']

 

They come into play if the GM puts them in play. My wife played an effectively immortal character (Lifespan: 800 years). When a DEMON sorcerer cast a curse on the team that aged us all 50 years in an eyeblink, she got a great chance to shine. I had a character with LS: Immunity to Radiation. When the nuclear reactor was about to go critical, guess who got to save the day?

 

If the GM tosses up occasional challenges based on a character's "flavor" powers (like Life Support, or a high COM), they aren't wasted points. If the GM doesn't, they are.

 

Bill.

[Blue]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

Regular Life Support comes into play with NND attacks (Gas, Disease, etc.), and Immortality is more of a storytelling device since few people's campaigns really span 200 years or more. But there is one character I've crated with a "wither" power that is an NND that is only stopped by a few effects, one of which is LS: Immortal.

 

5pts may seem high for a storytelling device, but I don't see it as unbalancing.

[Rapier]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

I'm a little stressed about the general flavour of a lot of the responses. It appears that a number of people are IMO overly concerned with the combat and/or direct effects of LS: Aging. I'm not trying to flame or start some kind of heated verbal fisticuffs, but could I ask that we take a step back and consider these:

 

1) As a GM, it is my responsibility to tell a story (or perhaps I should say, to set the stage for the characters to act out) in genre fashion. Part and parcel of this responsibility is to use the characters skills, talents, perks and powers. If a character has the ability to turn other Desol, I should create a situation where that power is used (someone just posted a rules question about a UBO Desol character rescuing people trapped inside a bank vault). It is these interactions that bring the players back for more. Characters are more than combat stats. A player gives a character certain powers because they WANT to use them. How can we, as GMs, ignore such pleas from our players? If you have a character with LS: Aging...USE IT!

 

2) There is a tendency (especially in newer players) to focus all their concept around combat. How many times has a new player presented you with a character without a single KS, AK or language...as if the character dropped out of some Ultimate Fighting Championship in the sky? Characters are more than combat stats (well, unless you are an ArenaBot or something ). Characters were born, grew up, skinned knees, climbed trees, went to school, learned to drive, had their first kiss, read a book. A well rounded character has many, many aspects (represented by Perks, Talents and Skills) that have no relation to combat or day to day life. This does not in any way invalidate the powers. I am very knowledgeable (probably at 14-) in the Bataan Death March (having done quite a bit of research and written a few papers on it). With the exception of this post, the last time I said the words Bataan Death March was 2002, before that...probably 1994. Not all of our character's skills, stats, perks, talents or powers need to come up all the time to be valid. Shouldn't a well rounded character have odds and ends (LS: Aging, KS: Bataan Death March, PS: Beautician, PS: Tax Law) that hardly come up at all? The whole point of background skills, powers, talents and perks is that they are just that...background. We should be rewarding players for developing their characters to such a level that they have dimension, depth and character.

 

Longevity is primarily a background aspect. At 5 pts, at 10 pts, at 50 pts, its "value" isn't placed so much as combat potential as it is the players ability to complete the character. I love to see characters come over with Bump of Direction, Lightsleep or a Contact at the UN. It shows that the player has thought out his character and spent the time and effort to flesh out the 2d into 3d. Isn't that why we do this in the first place?

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: So, why is longevity so expensive?

 

They come into play if the GM puts them in play.

Sure. I did not mean to imply that it was situationally impossible for Immortality (or other LS powers) to be worth their printed cost. IME' date=' it is mostly just a background item, with almost no game utility. If a GM is running a game where sfx attacks involving aging are very unlikely, it is reasonable to adjust the cost for that LS downward: I've used a three-step cost for it ("long-lived", "extremely long-lived", and "immortal"), but have lately come to favour a two-step system I picked up from Strike Force [characters can have "retarded aging" or "unaging"'].