Red Knight Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 OK.. here is the question. "What makes a good villian?" In saying villian I am thinking the Arch-Nemesis kind of villian. I have recently started to watch Teen Titans and I have to say I love Slade as a villian. Cold Calculating and extremely evil. Having said that, I was wondering what other people considered the "must have" traits for a villian. Is mega power more important than intelliegence? Is super weapons more important than skills? What say you all?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? Persistence... as the villain is inevitably going to lose, having the gumption to dust themself off and "try, try again" is a must. Oh, and some relational quality that makes them significant to the hero is always good too. Either expressing themself as some form of polar opposite of the one they oppose (a la Joker v. Batman, or Doomsday v. Superman) or having some previously existing relationship with their nemesis (a la Green Goblin v. Spider-man). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? Small victories, a believable level of potency, and a cool name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? OK.. here is the question. "What makes a good villian?" ... I have recently started to watch Teen Titans and I have to say I love Slade as a villian. I thought that the definition of a villain involved them being bad... As for Slade.... Bah! Just because he was in one of the Best Storylines Ever* doesn't make him a great villain. Although it helps. --- * The Judas Contract, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? Well, for one thing IMO He must be emotionally significant to the Players and at least one of their characters. He must provoke a dramatic but good response. The players may "Love to hate " him, but they should not 'hate any game because of his presence. The characters, of course, should have some emotional factor as well, but it's okay for them to hate him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmenace Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? Adding a Marvel twist to this, I allways like a villain with understandable, if wrong headed. motives. The retcon of Magneto being a holocaust survivor as an example. That said, its a good example of only one type of villain, Foxbat couldn't be farther from this model but I still like him. The big villain has to be specific, designed for the hero's powers, outlook and sometimes their backstory. Standing for that which the hero apposes, using a radically different methodology and threatning the things that mean the most to the hero, that is when we start approaching a master villain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D. Hurricanes Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? A good villain has a motivation. It sounds obvious but I've seen a lot of villains whose motivation is "I'm evil." That's not a motivation. If they're greedy, they want power, or they like to rebel against authority, that's fine. Shallow and simplistic, perhaps, but at least there's a logical outcome derived from their actions. If you ask the villain "Why are you doing this?" and the answer is "because I'm evil" then go back to the drawing board. Even the Joker isn't evil for no apparent reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knight Posted April 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? Right now, I am plotting a character called Shroud, who is a highly intelligent and motivated individual. He uses a custom built suit of armor that gives him a chnace in combat (ala Slade). Motivation wise, I was planning on him trying to take down the US government and the "heros" that represent it b/c he was once a government hero (ala Captain America) during the Cold War, that was left out in the cold when things started to collapse. Somewhere in the depths of a Russian torture camp, he snapped. He was able to escape and made it back to America where the government chose to deny any knowledge of his existance. They didn't want to admit that they were sending supers to spy inside of Russia. (Like they weren't doing it to us). This denial was the final straw. Shroud started to work behind the scenes and plotted his revenge. Shroud wanted to reveal what he called the "Shroud of Lies" that the government used to play "dirty little games" The major point in Shroud's game was that he was willing to do whatever he felt was warranted to "safeguard America". Shroud decided that, given enough "troops", he could correct the problems with the government and so set out to make a private army. The only glitch was the new supers that were attempting to block him. The PC's are going to be introduced to him, when they stop his group from robbing a tech company. Shroud then decides that the new hero team is to be his pet project. His goal is to humiliate and slowly destroy the PC's.. Well.... What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooligan x Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? Adding a Marvel twist to this' date=' I allways like a villain with understandable, if wrong headed. motives. The retcon of Magneto being a holocaust survivor as an example.[/quote'] I agree. Magneto has always been more interesting to me than the Joker because you can see Magneto's point. Joss Whedon's Ord is cast from the same mold, which is why I liked the character despite his dumb name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? I tend to side with Iuz on this one. Good villains must have intelligence, persistence, and ideally some kind of tie to the hero, be it psychological(Joker vs. Batman) or historical/personal. Add to that enough power to be a threat(gobs of power is boring, but the villain must seem capable of beating the hero) and a decent name. Doesn't have to be a great name, but it can't suck. Rainbow Rider actually had a decent amount of potential, but that name was so awful that he lost all credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? Well the fun thing about Slade is that he always get under Robin's skin (and enjoys the hell out of it). I think something like that makes it most fun. Basically, having a villain that the heroes would just love to plant 6 feet under (but that annoying CvK thing get in the way). One that really tempts and stratches the good guys psychologically to the limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? A true interesting Villain should have enough depth that he could have his own series. Venom Sabretooth joker Magneto even the revised juggernaught they have to be characters whith understandable motivation, not just misguided, just understandable. Also being a credible threat helps, just dont overpower them, bats wouldnt live long with supes rogue gallery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent333 Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? 1st: Shroud is a great character idea. I wish I was running a game that I could cop it and use for myself *sigh* 2nd: Everyone here has covered the bases. IMO, the best villains come down to three things: Motivation, motivation and then you need motivation. After that, they really just write themselves. I've been able to ad-lib a lot of villain dialogue beleivably (note: I didn't say well) because I had a strong grip on what motivates them. 3rd: My own experience for my vampire game was to make an arch nemesis for each player. Each one of them never worked together, but individually they gave the group fits. The biggest reason for this was because I always left enough room in the overall sub-plot for the villains to actually ally with the PCs from time to time (apart from the times the PCs were out-right manipulated into doing what the villain wanted; traps and the like...). They HATED it when the villains, or someone who worked for them, dropped a helpful clue or goaded them into a chase scene that ended tying into another situation altogether. Said situation, if resolved successfully was beneficial to both the PCs and the villain, but the PCs hate doing ANYTHING that helps those guys! Good times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knight Posted April 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? "1st: Shroud is a great character idea. I wish I was running a game that I could cop it and use for myself *sigh* " *Agent333* Thanks... I intially started with another villian that was the classic ancient evil magician that was out to conquer the earth but the character never really "came to life" just because of what has been mentioned here.... Motivation!! I was running the classic, I'm evil and want to take over the world motivation and he never was able to grow beyond that. That is when I went back and started to develop Shroud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? Personality, with either over-the-top characterization or nuanced dimensions. Magneto seems to go over well in our campaign, I play him as a noble sort of warrior, a rationalizing bigot, a paternalist,. an egomaniac, an academic, and brilliant. On the other hand Jonas Hell, not a villain but an annoying NPC, is a drunken strangely-successful-womanizing conspiracy nut whose one step away from the funny farm. He has been a mainstay, coming and going, for a while being very present, now more back, and has even managed to provide dramatic tension along with simple plot devices. Wilson Fisk AKA Kingpin was a ruthless and crafty psychopath with serious ego issues. There's also enigamatic. The villain whose purpose is unknown and keeps away from contact yet is clearly present can be effective, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Re: What makes a good villian?? The classic villian must be intelligent (at least as much as the PC, the hulk didn't need to be a genius to be a credible threat to the thing), must have modivation to fight the PCs, and must make an impression. The first time i met a villian in our game, i had shot an arbolest at him, and he blocked it with a staff from across the battle field, then shows up behind us in full plate with a gigantic greatsword. We didn't know he had magic at the time, but we do know, and when we met him again, he made such an impact we had to fight him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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