DC's turn toward the dark

[hooligan x]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

I am not talking about age. I'm talking about get it right. It takes me 3 hours to hand claculate a hero page. What I did above only took ten seconds.

 

If you are going to insist that no hero went into operation before Superman, and the hero in question had a kid in the middle of his career, which couldn't be more than 8 years one way or the other, why is the kid almost as old or older than Speedy.

 

I am willing to give up Grell totally screwed up GA's age because no one since the Crisis (except for Roy Thomas who quit) has ever done their homework.

 

I am willing to give that because Grell has been a F-up, and his GA run was F-uped, but when you look at a character that you know is the same age as Superman being 15-18 years older and knowing that's wrong, that's because editorial oversight was abandoned for "Oh wouldn't it be cool to have a kid in the picture? Don't worry if the ages don't match up. The readers are too stupid to figure that out."

 

CES

 

You missed my whole point. It is impossible to keep a realistic timeline AND keep the comic in the current era as it often takes four months to tell two days worth of story. The Man of Steel restart was an attempt to address this problem but it won't work unless they restart every 15 years. Why should they do that? They tell stories of billionaires dressed as bats, men who run through walls, and shapeshifting aliens. Why should the passage of time be the only thing about which the reader doesn't suspend disbelief? Spend less time claculating and more time enjoying the escapist tale.

[Savinien]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

Hey... It's comic books.

 

Looks like a couple people in here take them a little too seriously.

 

Comic time is broken. It always has been and likely always will be (see hooligan X's wise reasoning). Just because an editor does something doesn't mean he thinks reader's are stupid. Don't flatter yourself overly much. It's more of a case that he doesn't care.

 

Believing it will be screwed up forever is silly. Much of the stuff that the first Crisis did seems to have been written over. Seemingly for no other reason than a particular writer wanted it a particular way. No reason this Crisis should be any different.

 

Get a life you silly nerds.

[Chuckg]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

It seems inevitable that in any discussion of what's wrong with comics nowadays, eventually someone will come along and think he, and he alone, has invented the "it's only comics, get a life!" speech.

 

I believe the traditional response is to do a VampWillow voice imitation and say "Bored now."

[Savinien]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

It seems inevitable that in any discussion of what's wrong with comics nowadays, eventually someone will come along and think he, and he alone, has invented the "it's only comics, get a life!" speech.

 

I believe the traditional response is to do a VampWillow voice imitation and say "Bored now."

 

I only feel the need to bring out the speech when fanboys are getting rabid and attacking other posters with an alternative opinion.

 

Cause - Reaction

 

You'll learn it someday, Son.

 

Personally, of DC, I only read Catwoman anyway.

 

DC just doesn't pay enough attention sometimes for my personal tastes. Though, I have heard some interesting tidbits that have come out of all this Crisis is the new Extreme talk.

 

It just doesn't seem important enough to cuss out another member of the boards with unbridled hostility. If that is what you like to do... Go get 'em, Tiger. Don't be surprised when people tell you to get a life, though.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

My thing on continuity and consistancy is that I find it hard to be selective about it. In the end, I find it very difficult to care about things like how old a character is. I don't blame others for arguing about it, but in the end, I keep wondering things like why the hyperbrilliant inventors don't invent FTL drives and starships to go around them, and why all these powerful good magicians don't go around establishing white orders of magic to help fight evil and things like that.

 

In general, all I care about being consistant are characterization and relationships between the characters. Not that they should be set in stone but there should be a natural evolution in place.

[Ben Seeman]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

Let's please not get snarky with each other, huh?

[Dominique]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

Let's please not get snarky with each other' date=' huh?[/quote']

 

I second that motion.

[csyphrett]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

I am sorry for being harsh, but GA as the philandering drunk doesn't cut it. Starman going crazy because he was part of the Manhattan Project doesn't cut it because it is impossible. Single child Dawn Granger suddenly has a sister who is suddenly Hawk doesn't cut it. Gwen Stacy having Norman Osborn's kids doesn't cut it.

 

Continuity and consistentcy go hand and hand.

 

If you respect one, the other follows. Selective aging, hypocritical heroes, left field ressurections would stop.

 

Maybe you would even have creators who did follow Julie Schwartz's famous command to "Be Original."

 

On the bright side, I think Mitch is right. I don't think sales will go up, so maybe they will change staff.

CES

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

"The beatings will continue until morale improves"

[FenrisUlf]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

JSA #79

 

Written by Keith Champagne, art by Don Kramer and Champagne, cover by Alex Ross.

 

Amid the ruins of Dr. Fate's tower, one half of the JSA fight for their lives against Mordru, free from his imprisonment in the Rock of Eternity. Meanwhile, the rest of the JSA battle to save the Fifth Dimension from the iron grip of...Jakeem Thunder!

 

Jakeem turned evil? When did this happen?

 

Please -- tell me they did not say that.

[Enforcer84]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

Hey... It's comic books.

 

Looks like a couple people in here take them a little too seriously.

 

Comic time is broken. It always has been and likely always will be (see hooligan X's wise reasoning). Just because an editor does something doesn't mean he thinks reader's are stupid. Don't flatter yourself overly much. It's more of a case that he doesn't care.

 

Believing it will be screwed up forever is silly. Much of the stuff that the first Crisis did seems to have been written over. Seemingly for no other reason than a particular writer wanted it a particular way. No reason this Crisis should be any different.

 

Get a life you silly nerds.

I totally resent you now! I take back all the nice things I've said in the complimentary thread!

 

I kid.

[Enforcer84]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

JSA #79

 

Written by Keith Champagne, art by Don Kramer and Champagne, cover by Alex Ross.

 

Amid the ruins of Dr. Fate's tower, one half of the JSA fight for their lives against Mordru, free from his imprisonment in the Rock of Eternity. Meanwhile, the rest of the JSA battle to save the Fifth Dimension from the iron grip of...Jakeem Thunder!

 

Jakeem turned evil? When did this happen?

 

Please -- tell me they did not say that.

Well, he already used harsh language, it was inevitable.

[Blue]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

I'm wondering how many times I can read the title of this thread as DC's turn Howard the Duck.

[Enforcer84]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

I keep reading it as DC's turn towards the Dork

[CBikle]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

This is all intended to catch and hold the attention of new(younger) readers and to revitalize existing DC properties for transition into other potential franchises or for use elsewhere in Time-Warner.

 

It is the prevailing belief that the older (silver-age) fans will buy the books anyway, regardless of their unhappiness with the new direction.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

It is the prevailing belief that the older (silver-age) fans will buy the books anyway' date=' regardless of their unhappiness with the new direction.[/quote']

 

Seems supported. How many posters on these boards revile virtually every major storyline and character development which has arisen in the past 20 years, yet are fully current with the most recent issue of virtually every book published?

 

If you keep buying it, they keep printing it. That shouldn't be so hard to figure out, should it?

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

Seems supported. How many posters on these boards revile virtually every major storyline and character development which has arisen in the past 20 years, yet are fully current with the most recent issue of virtually every book published?

 

If you keep buying it, they keep printing it. That shouldn't be so hard to figure out, should it?

I couldn't have put it better, Hugh. Personally, I quit buying DC's stuff (except for the occassional interesting-looking Elseworlds and the Legion Archives) not long after Crisis and long before Zero Hour because I didn't like the changes and the directions they were taking. From what I've heard in the years since then, they've continued to go in directions I find repulsive and have come to the conclusion I haven't missed anything.

[Enforcer84]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

I don't buy it, I work across the street from a comic book store. I read the crap for free and buy the stuff I like.

[Greywind]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

I used to manage a shop and read all the crap for free.

[Chuckg]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

Likewise, reading the crap for free.

 

And really, how cheap is this argument?

 

Every 'I don't like the current direction of comics' thread I have seen, on every message board, has tried the same tactic.

 

And it's a lose-lose proposition, if you fall for it. If you say that you /aren't/ reading the comics, you get back "If you're not reading them, how do you know what's really going on? Stop complaining!", and if you say that you /are/ reading them, you get back "Well, then it's your fault the comics are bad, you keep reading them! Stop complaining!"

 

Seen that one tried at least half a dozen times, in almost as many places.

 

Talk about heads-I-win-and-tails-you-lose.

[Southern Cross]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

I agree such comments are fundamentally unfair.It is a fundamental consumer right to complain if the product is unsatisfactory.

[Southern Cross]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

Especially if you have to pay for said product..

[memorax300]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

I maybe in the minority but I actually like the new direction DC is going in. The silver age style was great for it's time but imo it's starting to show it's age. One gets tired of reading about characters who never have any other worries besides catching the next villian or that their actions never have any consquences. Hell look at how many characters they put toghther in romnatic relationships that have fallen apart. Starfire and Robin split up Jade and Karl Rayner split up. Dick Grayson and Barbara Grodon split up. It's as if DC just wanted to potray their heroes and fighting crime and nothing else.

 

Like it or not the current readership imo want this new darker look . Nice just does not do it anymore. It would explain why Marvel is still in business. Now if5 only Dc could do more movies with some other characters as oppsosed to only less known comics

[Agent X]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

I maybe in the minority but I actually like the new direction DC is going in. The silver age style was great for it's time but imo it's starting to show it's age. One gets tired of reading about characters who never have any other worries besides catching the next villian or that their actions never have any consquences. Hell look at how many characters they put toghther in romnatic relationships that have fallen apart. Starfire and Robin split up Jade and Karl Rayner split up. Dick Grayson and Barbara Grodon split up. It's as if DC just wanted to potray their heroes and fighting crime and nothing else.

You weren't reading the Silver Age if what you said in bold was true.

 

Like it or not the current readership imo want this new darker look . Nice just does not do it anymore. It would explain why Marvel is still in business. Now if5 only Dc could do more movies with some other characters as oppsosed to only less known comics

Darker isn't More Realistic. Let's not confuse the two. And what concerns some of us is that "darker" is a reflection of a value system that is less than laudable, more relativistic trash and an opportunity for folks to develop even better skills in attempting to "rationalize" any action as just. My son won't be reading these "darker" comics. It's a real shame. I enjoyed the "less dark" comics of old as a child and as an adult. It doesn't appear he will have the same opportunity.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: DC's turn toward the dark

 

Likewise' date=' reading the crap for free.[/quote']

 

Bully for you - do you also steal satellite signals and pirate music and computer software? Mind you, some libraries now stock comics, so let's just assume you take your library card and read them there to avoid the "when is it theft" argument best left to NGD.

 

And really' date=' how cheap is this argument?[/quote']

 

It's free - my internet service is a flat monthly rate so there's no incremental cost. Why? Do you normally pay for arguments? [shades of Monty Python!]

 

Every 'I don't like the current direction of comics' thread I have seen' date=' on every message board, has tried the same tactic.[/quote']

 

Well, I suppose if it's a common argument, it must be wrong! Especialy if it doesn't coincide with your personal opinions.

 

And it's a lose-lose proposition' date=' if you fall for it. If you say that you /aren't/ reading the comics, you get back "If you're not reading them, how do you know what's really going on? Stop complaining!", and if you say that you /are/ reading them, you get back "Well, then it's your fault the comics are bad, you keep reading them! Stop complaining!" [/quote']

 

I have no problem with people complaining. I'm as guilty as anyone of continuing to buy when I'm becoming less and less of a fan of certain series. [Don't want that hole in my series run; maybe it will get better; force of habit - pick your excuse, there's lots of them to go around]

 

Seen that one tried at least half a dozen times, in almost as many places.

 

Talk about heads-I-win-and-tails-you-lose.

 

It's the free market economy, Chuck. If no one was buying it, no one would produce it. The fact is, whether we like the direction comics are, and have, taken or not, the sales fiugures seem to indicate the total of people who like it, and therefore buy it, and the people who don't like it, and buy it nevertheless, is good enough to keep the publishers happy. If the general public (not just you, not just me - the comic buying public) stopped buying the darker books, the darker books would go away. The fact is that sales of the darker books have been strong, so the publishers keep making them. [Just like people watched crappy "reality" TV, so the networks kept developing and airing crappy "reality" TV shows. At least these had the advantage of lower production costs.]