Starlord Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Jeff' date=' it's going to take more than a vague memory of an issue you admit not having read in years, and can't even guess at the # of, before I will accept the evidence of my own memory as being wrong.[/quote'] After seeing your 'acceptance' list Chuck, there's no point in going further with you anyway. EDIT: I know it doesn't help my 'vague memory' assertions, but now I don't think the fight took place in Cap's comic, I believe it was Iron Fist's solo mag. Looking through my comic lists, it would have to have taken place in Iron Fist #1 - 15 cuz that's all the ones that I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proditor Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists After seeing your 'acceptance' list Chuck, there's no point in going further with you anyway. EDIT: I know it doesn't help my 'vague memory' assertions, but now I don't think the fight took place in Cap's comic, I believe it was Iron Fist's solo mag. Looking through my comic lists, it would have to have taken place in Iron Fist #1 - 15 cuz that's all the ones that I have. Jumping on the vague memory bandwagon...If that's the original IF run before he meets Cage, it ain't in there. They republished those in the Essential Iron Fist and the whole book is pretty much Danny beating people silly, not getting his clock cleaned. The Vague part is that I can't remember everyone he fought, but he definitely did not fight Cap. EDIT: I should have said "Did not get his clock cleaned by Cap.", but alas, I typed too quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists The v1 run of IRON FIST only /went/ fifteen issues... and the fight in Avengers Mansion that I posted the scans of was IRON FIST v1 #12. BTW, reread my copy. After the scans I posted, the fight ends... Cap gets up (the shield blocked it, of course), and Danny talks Cap down from the mistaken identity thing by simply refusing to fight any longer. So, definitely stalemate. I'm going through the rest of my IRON FIST right now, and I have yet to find any Cap/Falcon issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyendasky80 Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Hey, I wanna change Bronze Tiger to Spider-Man, k Enforcer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Scans of a section of the Cap/Iron Fist fight (to which I am referring):...they're stalemating... until the end' date=' where only the Mighty Shield keeps Cap from being pulp.[/quote'] Well from the point that Cap remarks that IF is holding back, Cap has the thought in his head that something is definitely wrong here and at that point may no longer fighting with all he's got. Also you may be misinterpreting Cap's use of the shield as the only thing that keeps him from being pulp. Cap used the shield because he had it in hand, Cap had already blocked IF's previous blow with his bare hand and may well have been able to dodge the Iron Fist Punch. If I'm Cap in this situation and a guy's hand starts crackling with energy, my first instinct is to get behind my trusty indestructable shield. Just because it is the option he chose, doesn't make it his only option in this case. --seperate point-- I think this is one of the things that makes Cap such a pure fighter. While Kung Fu artists go out of their way to make their art as flashy as it is deadly, Cap looks for the quickest and most effective way to end a fight. For being such an amazing fighter and having seen the horrors of war first hand, without carrying so much as a pistol, Cap has developed a style that is all about economy of motion and effectiveness of action. This is why Cap places as #1 on so many lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists > Well from the point that Cap remarks that IF is holding back, Cap has > the thought in his head that something is definitely wrong here and at > that point may no longer fighting with all he's got. Which is an odd thing to say, 'cause Cap does better in the second half of the fight than he does in the first. > Also you may be misinterpreting Cap's use of the shield as the > only thing that keeps him from being pulp. Cap used the shield > because he had it in hand, Cap had already blocked IF's previous blow > with his bare hand and may well have been able to dodge the Iron Fist > Punch. IF's previous blow != Iron Fist. And you are purely speculating. > If I'm Cap in this situation and a guy's hand starts crackling with > energy, my first instinct is to get behind my trusty indestructable > shield. Just because it is the option he chose, doesn't make it his only > option in this case. What else can Cap do, Abort to Desolid? You can't block the Iron Fist the same way Cap blocked Danny's backhand a couple panels ago, you'd simply shatter your arm. The full force of the Iron Fist has sent Iron Man flying completely off the page, and could kill Luke Cage with a single shot. They're fighting in a hallway, besides, so Cap doesn't even have room to jump too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyendasky80 Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I've seen Danny Rand punch through Colossus as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists > Well from the point that Cap remarks that IF is holding back, Cap has > the thought in his head that something is definitely wrong here and at > that point may no longer fighting with all he's got. Which is an odd thing to say, 'cause Cap does better in the second half of the fight than he does in the first. . What I'm saying is that at that point in the fight, Cap is trying to end it quickly and sort things out. You had stated earlier that part of the reason you held this fight as a watermark for their comparative ability was that Cap was fighting with all he had against the man he suspected of killing Jarvis (Not an exact quote, I'm paraphrasing a bit and don't feel like searching back to get an exact quote, so I guess I'm also lazy. Yes, lazy praraphraser you could call me and I would have to accept it ) > > Also you may be misinterpreting Cap's use of the shield as the > only thing that keeps him from being pulp. Cap used the shield > because he had it in hand, Cap had already blocked IF's previous blow > with his bare hand and may well have been able to dodge the Iron Fist > Punch. IF's previous blow != Iron Fist. And you are purely speculating. > If I'm Cap in this situation and a guy's hand starts crackling with > energy, my first instinct is to get behind my trusty indestructable > shield. Just because it is the option he chose, doesn't make it his only > option in this case. What else can Cap do, Abort to Desolid? You can't block the Iron Fist the same way Cap blocked Danny's backhand a couple panels ago, you'd simply shatter your arm. The full force of the Iron Fist has sent Iron Man flying completely off the page, and could kill Luke Cage with a single shot. They're fighting in a hallway, besides, so Cap doesn't even have room to jump too high. I'm only saying that we don't know what else Cap might have done, just not to assume that what he did chose was his only choice. In comparison, we have both chosen to have a civil discussion about out respective opinions of the pages you were nice enough to share with us. We could have chosen to go throwing names around and insulting each other like two-year olds. Really that lazy paraphraser thing would sting a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I'm only saying that we don't know what else Cap might have done' date=' just not to assume that what he did chose was his only choice.[/quote'] What other assumption can we make that permits a discussion to exist at all? If we go 'we don't know what Cap might possibly have done, but SURELY he could have done SOMETHING', then we are starting from an assumption -- that Cap will win -- and hypothesizing to fit, instead of starting from the facts (what's on the page) and then testing our hypothesis against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists No worries. I am quite content with Cap being Numero Uno in the team leader/tactician position *whew* I hate it when he lets loose with the Fence Posts of Doom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists You're all a bunch of meanies. I am going to take my long-cherrished, fictional beliefs and going home. Oh, wait a minute... I am at home. Bring them here. We can keep them with my ego and self esteem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Hey' date=' I wanna change Bronze Tiger to Spider-Man, k Enforcer?[/quote'] K! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Hey' date=' I wanna change Bronze Tiger to Spider-Man, k Enforcer?[/quote'] Does anyone want to change their vote to Firelord? I knew I was asking for it when I started this thread, but I am surprised it took so long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Hey Chuckg! You wanna make a ballot? You're the most active poster to this thread that I don't have one from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Gandhi Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Not to knowledgable about Marvel, but going by what I've seen. 1. Shang Chi 2. Stick 3. Iron Fist 4. Captain America 5. Daredevil 6. Black Panther 7. Elektra 8. Batroc 9. Bullseye 10. Wolverine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I'd like to see Shang Chi and Stick fight it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trained Chicken Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I'd like to see Shang Chi and Stick fight it out. That would be boring, Stick is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists USAgent can bench 10+ tons. I don't think he is eligible. I know chuckg already said he wouldn't buy it, but the old FASERIP system put Cap at Amazing Fighting and Iron Fist and Daredevil at Incredible. I think they all had the same array of skill ups so those were a wash. Think Shang Chi was Amazing also (max human level.) Heck, someone look up the comparative examples of Fighting in the character creation section. I think everyone mentioned is on the list. The only way for this to be settled is for someone to spot Steve and Darren a couple hundred grand to option the rights to do a Marvel based HERO supplement. Anyone got a couple hundred grand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superskrull Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists That would be boring' date=' Stick is dead.[/quote'] Nah. For one, this is Marvel. Dead never lasts too long. 'Sides, he's got funky chi powers involving resurrections & such that help explain why Elektra's wandering around these days. Nothing can explain Elektra: Assassin, though. At best, he's metaphysically inconvenienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I'm pretty sure, if someone's got an Overstreet book, we can figure out what issue of Captain America the previously referenced fight took place in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godjam Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists OK- First off if we're going to have people like Captain America (superpowered! Super soldier serume) then we should have Spider-man. Spidey could whoop the Captain any day of the week. (He's basically military trained- all martial, no art- same with Fury and Punisher) Going for characters who rely on skill rather than Strength/Powers, heres my list. 1) Shang Chi 2) Electra/Bullseye/ Stick 3) Iron Fist 4) Psylocke (trained by the hand! Just like Electra) 5) Batroc/ Zaran 5) Black Panther/ Red Skull 6) Moon Knight 7) Silver Sable 8) Storm (led the x-men for a while without powers!) 9) Mystique/ Viper 10) Wolverine/ Lady Deathstrike (only included because even if you took away their powers their training still puts them in the big leagues) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Shouldn't Daredevil be on your list, godjam, for the same reason as Wolverine? Also, I'm pretty sure Iron Fist would clean Bullseye's clock in a straight-up weaponless fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Well, if we eliminate anyone with super-serum coursing through their veins, we should also eliminate anyone who can "channel their chi" to boost their abilities, heal themself, etc. Which basically leaves Shang-Chi as the best martial artist in the MU--no chi powers or secret ninja techniques boosting his natural talent, no super soldier serum amping his body up to max human potential, just plain ol' kung fu skilz and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Ummm, actually, the recent MARVEL KNIGHTS run by Chuck Dixon had Shang pulling off a Cassandra Cain-style Matrix-time bullet sidestep (again in clear stop-motion), so he'd be DQ'ed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Also' date=' I'm pretty sure Iron Fist would clean Bullseye's clock in a straight-up weaponless fight.[/quote'] Well, throwing things at Iron Fist is usually a complete waste of time... From POWER MAN & IRON FIST #50: http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3839/grsp30co.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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