Guest Suleyman Rashid Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Hadn't seen that - was that in the last few years? If so, it would fall under that "confusing mess" that I mentioned. Most people forget that Stephen Strange's training included martial arts. But he never should have been able to beat Mantis iin a straight HTH fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists odd hat they already have the ultimate marvel martial artist your describe shes called X-23 ( literally a wolverine clone) and i think they brought her into the mainstream after she was so cool in the cartoon series extreme x men. shes basically a female wolverine except her third claw is in her foot shes currently appearing in new x-men Sad, wrong, and entirely expected. Does he have a Wolverdog yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Okay, this is based on skill, not powers or gear (thus the relative low showings of Wolverine, Iron Fist, & Captain America) Shang Chi, Master of Kung Fu Iron Fist Daredevil Captain America Electra Echo Wolverine Moon Knight Punisher Shadowcat As I said, this is without powers. Iron Fist without the Iron Fist is just slightly less than Shang Chi. Daredevil and Cap were hard, but cap got penalised some for his overreliance on his shield and the super soldier formula. Wolverine, sorry fanboys, but his fighting style relies very heavely on his healing factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Fun excercise in futility as really it depends on who's writing and who the editorial staff wants to promote as looking good. But that aside, I'll try. I'm adding in the ancient law of "You snooze you lose" which means if you stay dead or retired too long, I'm taking you off the list. You don't have to have your own comic, but you have to be 'out and about and doing stuff'. 1: Captain America and Shang Chi Reasons: Captain America's win record aside, Shang Chi himself also praised Cap as having "the purest fighting style I have ever known" and seemed to consider him an equal. Shang maybe humble, but he doesn't strike me as the type to lie about martial prowess. I feel sorry for Shang. (edit) and should say why. It's like he's the only guy trying to abide by Pulp hero rules in a Champions campaign. 2: Black Panther, Crossbones Reason: cuz. More seriously, Black Panther has at times matched Cap, others been JUUUST below it. Crossbones gives Cap a good Run but ultimately loses. 3: Iron Fist, Elektra and Daredevil Reasons: the oft sited match between them. I'd give it to Iron Fist myself, but Rand, for some reason, does not seem to be a writer's favorite. Daredevil has been on the rise since early 80s and has replaced Moonknight as Marvel's Batman level fighter. Elektra was MADE to be Daredevil's match in many ways so piggy backs on there. 4: Moon Knight and Punisher Reasons: I don't LIKE Punisher in the comics, but let's give the guy his due. He is consistantly portrayed as a bad#$$, and many of his fight scenes are well done. Moon Knight has been derided as "Marvel's Second String Batman" which I think is sad, because the guy has/had so much potential. However, as his star fell, so did his skill levels. That's the way it is with Marvel Heroes sometimes. 5: Black Widow Reasons: I guess I don't read the right comics, because while's got a great high kick, I mostly see her attacking via ambush, or using those bracers of hers. I guess my thought would be "she hasn't shown me #$$" to which, no doubt, Natasha would think she needn't show me ANYTHING. 6: Silver Sable Reasons: She strikes me as prefering firearms due to practicality, fencing due to grace, and then hand to hand due to necessity. 7: Batroc Reason: He's French. Kidding, Kidding... I actually like Batroc; I have to admire a character who earns the hard money as comic relief/mook of the week. In a pond, he could be a big fish... but the poor guy is shark food out in the big deep. 8-10: One of the Xmen. Reasons: Wild fluctuations here... one issue Cyclops is judo throwing in a way that would make Cap proud, the next he's getting punked. Shadowcat has ninja training augmented by Wolverine... until the next writer forgets that. Wolverine is the best at what he does...and what he does is heal which means he isn't exactly concerned with defense. Storm is no slouch. Some should probably be further up BUT for many of them? It's like they bought their martial arts on an activation roll. So there you go... If Mockingbird were still alive, she'd be on the list as well, possibly below Cap. She never got enough props imo. Jack Monroe, aka Nomad would be scooted on the list if he were still alive as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists 1: Captain America 2: Shang Chi 3: Iron Fist 4: Taskmaster, Mantis, Black Panther 5: Bullseye, Elektra, Stick, and Daredevil 6: Punisher, Kingpin 7: Black Widow, Moondragon, and Silver Sable. That is good nuff for me.... You could certainly sprinkle several of the X-Folks around (Nightcrawler, Kitty Pride, Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops).... I need to go back and look... this is based on who would win in a physical fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I see Taskmaster was ruled out??? I don't really see him being anymore super than Capt America or Black Panther. Oh, well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I see Taskmaster was ruled out??? I don't really see him being anymore super than Capt America or Black Panther. Oh' date=' well.[/quote'] I guess it is the whole ability to copy without really learning thing. I think, in fairness, he should get some points for his years of learning how to mix and match the styles, but he wouldn't be in the top of the list due to the penality. If it doesn't count against him at all? We're talking a #3 ranking or so IMO. Echo would be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Ooo ... when's the Image one?! Here's my list-a-roonie: 1. Shang Chi 2. Mantis 3. Iron Fist, Wolverine 4. Daredevil, Elektra, Mandarin II, Steel Serpent, White Tiger 5. Silver Samurai, Echo/Ronin, Snakeroot, Black Panther, The Cat/Tigra 6. Moon Knight, Sons of the Tiger 7. Batroc, Zaran, Captain America, Silver Sable 8. Mockingbird, Falcon, Ka-Zar, Kingpin, Puck 9. Red Guardian, Nick Fury, Red Skull, X-23 10. Punisher, Hellcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists 1. Captain America and Karnak Sure, Karnak, has armor-piercing attacks or Find Weakness or both. But, if the two tangled I think it would be a draw. 2. Shang Chi and Iron Fist Iron Fist rocks! Just because he doesn't look like Bruce Lee doesn't mean he's not as good as Shang Chi. If you compare their origins he's been tested more than Shang Chi has. 3. Daredevil and Black Panther and Ka-Zar and Wolverine and Black Widow 4. Moon Knight and Falcon I don't think either of these guys would whip Daredevil or Black Panther or Wolverine and they would only draw with Ka-Zar and they both have better gadgets than Ka-Zar. And Black Widow has a history. 5. Batroc and Zaran and Kingpin - Bad Guys who threaten the best Good Guy Martial Artists 6. Hawkeye - Trained by Cap with years of experience (I don't care if they killed him off) 7. Puck and Mockingbird 8. Punisher 9. Nick Fury and Red Skull 10. Ben Grimm (The Thing has used his fighting skills and heart against much tougher opponents to come out as the victor, or at least not the loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I think Gamora would rate pretty high up in the list, even without powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Nope' date=' not the last few years. This goes way back in the Avengers past.[/quote'] Aren't you the one who reminds us to look at how a character has been depicted overall, rather than the aberrations? But I do agree with Suleyman Rashid; Stephen Strange is a quite competent martial artist, and has demonstrated that several times over the years when magic wasn't an option for some reason, but he's not world-class like the others on this list. For Mantis it's the essence of her concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchine Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Marvel Top 10 Martial Artist. IMO 1) Captain America 2) Shang Chi 3) Taskmaster 4) Karnak 5) Black Panther 6) Mantis 7) Iron Fist 8) Daredevil 9) Silver Samerai 10) Punisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists No love for Mandarin from anyone? I seemed to recall that he was a credible threat to Iron Man in his early armor, just with his martial arts ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I see Taskmaster was ruled out??? I don't really see him being anymore super than Capt America or Black Panther. Oh' date=' well.[/quote'] But he's made ballots so he's in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchine Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I would put Mandarin in the top 20 but not the top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Currant rankings: Shang Chi Captain America Iron Fist Black Panther Daredevil Elektra Black Widow Moon Knight Wolverine The biggest battles here are Black Panther v Iron Fist and Elektra v Daredevil the difference between #1 & #2 is 13 pts The difference between #7 & # 8 is 30 pts Taskmaster has made the list because people put him on. But I don't really consider him a martial artist. Although, my favorite appearance of his is when he was teaching John Walker how to fight like Captain America. He broke Cap's fighting style down into pieces to better train the lumbering idiot and had some success. So I no longer think of him as a mirror or a recording but as someone who can study an art instantly. Mandarin has been getting some love, he's in the top 25. I find it interesting that the Marvel list has more responses and 10 more fighters than the longer running DC list. Lots of X-Men have one vote. And none of the one's I expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Punisher is the funniest. He's been as high as #3 and low as #10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Ooo ... when's the Image one?! Here's my list-a-roonie: 1. Shang Chi 2. Mantis 3. Iron Fist, Wolverine 4. Daredevil, Elektra, Mandarin II, Steel Serpent, White Tiger 5. Silver Samurai, Echo/Ronin, Snakeroot, Black Panther, The Cat/Tigra 6. Moon Knight, Sons of the Tiger 7. Batroc, Zaran, Captain America, Silver Sable 8. Mockingbird, Falcon, Ka-Zar, Kingpin, Puck 9. Red Guardian, Nick Fury, Red Skull, X-23 10. Punisher, Hellcat IMAGE might be next; but my personal list will be short. I don't know enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Aren't you the one who reminds us to look at how a character has been depicted overall, rather than the aberrations? But I do agree with Suleyman Rashid; Stephen Strange is a quite competent martial artist, and has demonstrated that several times over the years when magic wasn't an option for some reason, but he's not world-class like the others on this list. For Mantis it's the essence of her concept. I thought the essence of Mantis' concept was to stand around and do nothing most of the time and occasionally fight, half the time proving she's this great martial artist and the other half proving she's a third-tier Avenger - until her star turn. She's a very forgettable and inconsistent character, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Not to mention a skank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Well, meow. Did she bump you out of a spot on the team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanelord Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Interesting topic. Here's my top ten... 1. Shang Chi 2. Iron Fist 3. Captain America 4. Black Panther, Taskmaster 5. Daredevil 6. Elektra 7. Moon Knight 8. Mandarin 9. Batroc 10. Psylocke Thanelord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Maybe she kicked him out of bed once? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcv Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists My top ten: 1. Captain America 2. Shang Chi 3. Mantis 4. Taskmaster 5. Iron Fist 6. Karnak 7. Steel Serpent 8. The Cat (Shen Kuei) 9. White Tiger 10. Colleen Wing I'm assuming that Snake-Eyes and Stormshadow don't count as real Marvel characters, even though Marvel used to publish the G.I. Joe comic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haerandir Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Actually, I wasn't familiar with Mantis, so I Googled her. One thing that I learned is that the adjective 'skank', while harsh, does seem to sum up certain elements of her background pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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