gewing Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists No love for Bullseye around here' date=' I note.[/quote'] In my limited recollections of him, he is kind of like Sabretooth. Started out a one shtick pony, powered up into the ultimate assassin. Bleah... I did like when he tried to kill the judge in his trial with a paperclip. IIRC he also killed a guard with a paper airplane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists In my limited recollections of him, he is kind of like Sabretooth. Started out a one shtick pony, powered up into the ultimate assassin. Bleah... I did like when he tried to kill the judge in his trial with a paperclip. IIRC he also killed a guard with a paper airplane. My only experience with him is from the Miller Daredevil runs. It was enough to make him something of a favorite, though. He killed Elektra in essentially a straight-up fight. Of course his penultimate blow used a playing card and the death blow her sai, but he was not much below her in weaponless fighting ability. Ditto for Daredevil, as far as that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I don't like "ties", so I'm gonna try to put them each in their own niche. 1) Shang Chi 2) Black Panther 3) Iron Fist 4) Captain America 5) Stick 6) Elektra 7) Daredevil 8) Black Widow 9) Bullseye 10) Steel Serpent There are lots I don't have a clear memory of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proditor Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I don't like "ties", so I'm gonna try to put them each in their own niche. 1) Shang Chi 2) Black Panther 3) Iron Fist 4) Captain America 5) Stick 6) Elektra 7) Daredevil 8) Black Widow 9) Bullseye 10) Steel Serpent There are lots I don't have a clear memory of. I actually like this list enough to poach it, though I'd switch Black Panther and Iron Fist. (Poor guy gets less respect than Karate Kid of the LSH). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyendasky80 Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists 1) Shang Chi 2) Captain America 3) Daredevil 4) Bronze Tiger 5) Elektra 6) Wolverine 7) Black Panther 8) Nighthawk 9) Crossbones 10) Echo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists 1) Shang Chi 2) Captain America 3) Daredevil 4) Bronze Tiger 5) Elektra 6) Wolverine 7) Black Panther 8) Nighthawk 9) Crossbones 10) Echo er, Eye? Bronze Tiger is DC unless there's someone else you meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Well this one has gotten a lot of responses. I adjusted Gary's input and Lord Morham? 5 is fine. The current rankings are: Shang Chi Captain America Black Panther Iron Fist Elektra Daredevil Black Widow Stick Moondragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists 1) Karnak 2) Captain America 3) Taskmaster 4) Iron Fist / Wolverine 5) Shang Chi / Crossbones / Stick 6) Black Panther / Daredevil / Elektra 7) Hawkeye / Moonknight / Red Skull / Puck / Kraven the Hunter 8) Batroc the Leaper / White Tiger / Psylocke / Bullseye 9) Wong (Dr. Strange's manservant) 10) Mockingbird / Cyclops / Storm I'm unsure how current or alive these guys are, but I wish we were doing a top 20 (or 30 I guess), then I'd have no ties. Ok, that might not make sense either. In any event, here's my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists And with that post, Levi invalidates my last post Everythings changed and I've added the most people to the list at one time. But that's cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists sorry Enforcer, I was crafting that post as you posted. Not entirely sure if Karnak qualifies as non-powered, but I figured if we were counting Wolvie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Interesting behaviors noted: Punisher has the greatest breadth of opinion 3rd place and 9th place Iron Fist has votes for 1st through 5th place. Red Skull has 2 votes and they're both for 8th The closest "Battle" is Black Panther (57pts) and Iron Fist (58pts) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists sorry Enforcer' date=' I was crafting that post as you posted. Not entirely sure if Karnak qualifies as non-powered, but I figured if we were counting Wolvie...[/quote'] It was in jest, I love it when people respond! Karnak has the honor of being the highest ranked 1 score wonder! I am, sadly, very amused by the scoring. It's something I do for fun when I am on my own. I love to get the responses. I should work for Gallup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists ... 7) Hawkeye / Moonknight / Red Skull / Puck / Kraven the Hunter... I had Cap's nemesis @ 7th sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists ...Karnak has the honor of being the highest ranked 1 score wonder!.... Maybe people don't know who Karnak is. He is an often forgotten Inhuman afterall. Well, here's a link to help remind or educate as appropriate. http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/k/karnak.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists So much of this is subjective. I can only try to go with the precedents I remember. I have to put Mantis as #1, as far as purely human martial artists go. She was trained by the Priests of Pama in Kree martial arts refined for hundreds of thousands of years. In her "audition" for Avengers membership she hit Thor hard and precisely enough to floor him, and her "mantis grip" rendered Captain America unconscious in less than a minute. After that it gets harder. Shang Chi fought beside Iron Fist, and once remarked that Iron Fist's "martial arts skills are very nearly the equal of my own." Iron Fist and Daredevil fought an extended duel that was pretty much a dead draw. OTOH Iron Fist battled Captain America and was clearly overmatched; as Fist put it, "his technique is basic, but his speed and power are incredible!" So, I'd be inclined to put Cap ahead of those others, with SC, IF and DD too close to call. Elektra is probably in that same class now, but I'd put the Black Widow a little below them. What's the current definition of the Black Panther? Whether it's been explained as due to the "panther herb" or "panther spirit," he's been considered superhuman in his physical abilities in the past. Certainly his senses are far beyond human level. Moondragon, I haven't seen enough of her martial arts (as opposed to her mental powers) to form an opinion. Wolverine is such a fanboy favorite that I'm reluctant to take any of his published exploits as definitive; but I've seen him pitted against clearly superior martial artists, where it was his healing factor that carried him through. At this point I'll commit to a first-place rank to Mantis, with Captain America in second place due to his physical edge. Daredevil, Shang Chi, Iron Fist and Elektra get a third-place tie, with Black Widow fourth. The others I'll have to think about more. EDIT: I'm not sure whether Karnak really belongs on this list. He may not have been exposed to the Terrigen Mist, but as an Inhuman he's clearly physically superhuman, as well as being the king of the Find Weakness ability in comics. I can't deny that he is a very skilled martial artist, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists odd hat they already have the ultimate marvel martial artist your describe shes called X-23 ( literally a wolverine clone) and i think they brought her into the mainstream after she was so cool in the cartoon series extreme x men. shes basically a female wolverine except her third claw is in her foot shes currently appearing in new x-men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists ... I have to put Mantis as #1, as far as purely human martial artists go. She was trained by the Priests of Pama in Kree martial arts refined for hundreds of thousands of years. In her "audition" for Avengers membership she hit Thor hard and precisely enough to floor him, and her "mantis grip" rendered Captain America unconscious in less than a minute.... I had no idea Mantis was so tough / capable. Can I change my list Enforcer? If so, I would tie her with Karnak. Thanks for the education LL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marketeer Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Is Cap at "peak of human" or "low-end superhuman" levels right now? Either way, I'd put him a nudge below Shang-Chi in raw skill; the Super-Soldier enhancements are probably enough that Cap would beat Shang-Chi in a fight though. Which just goes to show: Winners do use drugs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Here's a good short bio of Mantis, at least before events in Marvel comics in recent years (which have left the character a confusing mess): http://marvelite.prohosting.com/surfer/profiles/mantis.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Is Cap at "peak of human" or "low-end superhuman" levels right now? Either way, I'd put him a nudge below Shang-Chi in raw skill; the Super-Soldier enhancements are probably enough that Cap would beat Shang-Chi in a fight though. That's about the way I look at it, too. I suspect that apart from Mantis, Shang's technique and training are the most sophisticated in the MU. Which just goes to show: Winners do use drugs! Or gene therapy. Depends on your definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I had no idea Mantis was so tough / capable. Can I change my list Enforcer? If so' date=' I would tie her with Karnak. Thanks for the education LL[/quote'] Don't let the hype fool you - she got punked, in hand-to-hand combat, by none other than Dr. Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Is Cap at "peak of human" or "low-end superhuman" levels right now? Either way, I'd put him a nudge below Shang-Chi in raw skill; the Super-Soldier enhancements are probably enough that Cap would beat Shang-Chi in a fight though. Which just goes to show: Winners do use drugs! I love Shang Chi. Read a lot of Master of Kung Fu. I still give it to Captain America. Cap has used martial arts to take down Aquarian. Shang Chi consistently had difficulties with villains that Cap would eat for breakfast. It's not Shang Chi's fault that his comic was trying to be a bit more realistic - but that means he has to pay the price and not be ranked #1 in my forthcoming list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Don't let the hype fool you - she got punked' date=' in hand-to-hand combat, by none other than Dr. Strange.[/quote'] Hadn't seen that - was that in the last few years? If so, it would fall under that "confusing mess" that I mentioned. I could direct you to the details, but I'm afraid it's nearly as nauseating as what they did to Thor recently. EDIT: Oh, what the heck... read if you have a strong stomach: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/2855/mantis.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists I had Cap's nemesis @ 7th sir. Meant 7th sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists Hadn't seen that - was that in the last few years? If so, it would fall under that "confusing mess" that I mentioned. I could direct you to the details, but I'm afraid it's nearly as nauseating as what they did to Thor recently. EDIT: Oh, what the heck... read if you have a strong stomach: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/2855/mantis.html Nope, not the last few years. This goes way back in the Avengers past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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