If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

[Dust Raven]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

All i know about them is what i once in a great while read at conventions. I know they had some sort of nations play in games at cons thingy where you got points and so forth, which i assumes fit the term tournament in a loose sense. perhaps i should have used the word "competition"? I think one or two people i know have actually competed in their events at some point, maybe? The vast majority haven't.

 

Anyway, along this line of reasoning, since you bring it up, do you consider RPGA events as "representative" of typical DND gaming? is that why you bring it up? Were/Are the DND games you participated in and run restricted to RPGA rules, for instance? Do you find that common?

 

I've played in RPGA events mostly at gaming conventions and a few events once held at a local gaming store. The events I participated in (and found to be the most plentiful) were really nothing more than any old role-playing game. Players showed up, either with a character or made one, and played the game. There is no competition, and awards are divided up among players (or rather, their characters). The concept behind it is that you can create an "official" character that can be played in any RPGA event. The GM of any event does not need to pour over the character sheets before play, just note race, class, level and glance at equipment.

 

I wouldn't know if it is representitive of typical D&D play though. I don't know what typical D&D play is any more than I, or anyone, knows what typical Hero System play is. But it's official, unified, and to the best of my knowledge, more people play using that style of play than any other, if only because it's organized nationally.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

When I first saw "Dungeons and Dragons for Dummies," my reaction was, "I agree."

 

As if they don't alteady have enough books to buy. Having flipped through it, it looked to me like it really was for dummies. As if it takes a genius to figure out how to powergame in D&D. I certainly didn't need that book to figure out that Acrobatics would be an inefficient choice for a Cleric. Maybe I have a natural knack for efficiency (or powergaming ), but I suspect anyone who reads the players handbook will immediately understand 99.9% of the "insights" offered by "D&D for Dummies."

 

And re: characters with low CON, DEX, and STR - there are lots of characters like this in the source material, easily buildable and playable in HERO: physically frail wizards with powerful magic, psychic characters with incredible mental powers but weak bodies, alien races (skinny, small, huge heads), fantasy races, etc.

[CorpCommander]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

Maybe I have a natural knack for efficiency (or powergaming )' date=' but I suspect anyone who reads the players handbook will immediately understand 99.9% of the "insights" offered by "D&D for Dummies."[/quote']

 

Call me a dummy but when I got the v3.0 version of the PHB I missed a lot while reading it (like the bit about getting to up an attribute each 4th level) and was confused by its layout. I think the whole system needs a total over-haul. I suppose they tried that with 3.5? In any event, it seems a lot of work went into updating the system from 1.0 and 2.0 but also preserving a lot. I think they made it an incoherent mess but that's my little opinion.

 

Hero System is also confusing but only because of its massively steep learning curve. Once you understand the terminology and several fundamental mechanics it becomes very easy I think.

 

Its been over a year since I last played but coming back to the lists here makes me want to find a new group to do some sort of gaming regularily with it.

 

Oh and what brought me here was an extremely old thread I started that came back to life!

[Captain Obvious]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

Oh and what brought me here was an extremely old thread I started that came back to life!

 

So you're here now because of thread necromancy? Does that make you a zombie?

[ThothAmon]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

All systems have flaws but 8 out of 10 GMs said their properly initiated players preferred HERO

 

I come back because the system works.

[CorpCommander]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

So you're here now because of thread necromancy? Does that make you a zombie?

 

Not necessarily. I could be either a Necromancer Wannabe or Groupie.

 

"I see dead threads. They don't know that they are dead. They are everywhere."

[BarryB]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

Because I can make any effect from spitballs to atomic bombs. I can model the destruction of planets or how loud would be the sonic boom from supersonic flight.

 

We can quibble about costs for those effects and the powers and advantages/limitations put on them. But when you've got a system that is so broadly applicable...well, you just have to love it!

[ross_winn]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

I think I keep coming back out of morbid curiousity, or possibly for the free snacks...

[Sean Waters]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

1. I know the rules (or think I do)

2. When I think of something new to do to the players I can build it from scratch rather than conforming to the paradigm of the game designer.

 

 

....yeah, and the free snacks

[Gadodel]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

 

It's also the worst aspect of the game, as it almost requires it's players to use their imagination and think for themselves and be original and unique. Personally, I think this is a good thing, but others prefer a game they can just pull out of a box and play.

Truth.

 

Really, the game is for people who not only have a healthy imagination; but also an enormous amount of will to use it. Sure, the same people could sit down and play RISK for a few hours-but I'd wager that in the back of their mind, they are thinking about chargen in HERO...

[Dust Raven]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

Truth.

 

Really, the game is for people who not only have a healthy imagination; but also an enormous amount of will to use it. Sure, the same people could sit down and play RISK for a few hours-but I'd wager that in the back of their mind, they are thinking about chargen in HERO...

 

How did you know? I've never played RISK with you...

 

:D

[ghost-angel]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

There are two games I've played that I don't get bored of quickly.

 

HERO and backgammon. Both of which I could literally play all day long.

 

I don't play other RPGs (anymore) and I get bored of other board and card games within an hour or two.

[Dust Raven]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

There are two games I've played that I don't get bored of quickly.

 

HERO and backgammon. Both of which I could literally play all day long.

 

I don't play other RPGs (anymore) and I get bored of other board and card games within an hour or two.

 

OMG! Are you my long lost brother?

 

Actually, I can only claim the same with Hero and Backgammon. I can say that I get bored with other games in an hour or so, but all the board and card games I play tend to only take an hour or so to play, and then we play something else.

 

That, and I do occasionally play other RPGs, which I do eventually get bored with, but it usually takes months.

[archermoo]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

There are two games I've played that I don't get bored of quickly.

 

HERO and backgammon. Both of which I could literally play all day long.

 

I don't play other RPGs (anymore) and I get bored of other board and card games within an hour or two.

 

Eh, the ability of an RPG to keep me entertained has more to do with the skill of the Ref and other players, and the complexity of the world than what system we're playing. I have played games of D&D that were highly engaging and games of Hero that were boring.

 

That being said, I'll always pick Hero over any other system. To me at least it is easier to make a game interesting when using the Hero rules.

[ghost-angel]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

The reason I get bored with other RPGs quickly is they rarely allow me to model what I have in mind, making my own characters uninteresting to me to play. Deadlands is the last game I played that I got into but my character came out very bland after a couple hours of play... story was good I just didn't care much for it.

[zornwil]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

Well, just to chime into a good idea of a thread, I enjoy the deep support of tinkering HERO provides, as it's a robust, heavily-conformed system designed for such. I also like its level of granularity. And I do prefer supers and as it does supers from a mechanical view in a way that works well for me.

[CBikle]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

To me the Hero System is (still) the best RPG system out there. I've seen other systems (D&D/D20) gradually "Morph" over time as they borrow elements from Hero (sometimes becoming unrecognizable from their original design in the process).

 

The only thing that I think could improve it would be to add cards that would allow PCs and GMs to alter combat and plot elements (basically, steal the idea from the Torg rpg from WEG).

[pinecone]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

To me the Hero System is (still) the best RPG system out there. I've seen other systems (D&D/D20) gradually "Morph" over time as they borrow elements from Hero (sometimes becoming unrecognizable from their original design in the process).

 

The only thing that I think could improve it would be to add cards that would allow PCs and GMs to alter combat and plot elements (basically, steal the idea from the Torg rpg from WEG).

Or player advantage coupons like in Hackmaster?...when I play with people I trust I let the players take partial controll of the game...some of special effects on steroids...everyone seems to like it....

[Nodens]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

I have been playing since 1987. I keep coming back because:

 

1. Hero creates a clear distinction between mechanics and theatrics. Character points represent the sum total of the player's ability to affect the gameworld through the medium of his character. He may spend those points efficiently or not, and the GM can look at his point expenditure and say: "Sorry bud. This is perfectly legal, but I can't allow it because it will ruin the story". No muss, no fuss. That's nice. The character sheet, carefully examined, gives a clear, complete accounting of the capacity of a character (and his player) to affect a story.

 

2. No precedent exists for magazine-based experts to tell me that a given rule is admissable or not. There are not 2000 addendia, each with its own way of superceding the existing "Core Rules". And no 2-bit hacks creating endless, useless differentiations of existing mechanics solely to give them another authoring credit and one more paycheck.

 

3. Character disadvantages provide a structured way for players to add spice to their character while benefitting from it. In most game systems, the goal typically pursued is the removal of any and all weaknesses from PCs, and the attainment of ever-increasing personal power. This blighted trail leads to the boring repetition of very limited plot possibilities. Hero makes it possible to build an underdog, and actually make him a winner!

 

4. Hero has the best range of power scaling of any system I have used. After a few sessions, even beginners know the difference between a 6d6 EB and a 16d6 EB...

[RDU Neil]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

Coming back? I never left!

 

Seriously... since 1st Edition Champions, through today... including Justice Inc. (briefly) and Danger International (played this forever... best single 3rd Edtion era game ever!)... I've never left Hero.

 

I may have played a few D&D games when 3rd Ed came out. I did play in a great Deadlands campaign... and back in the day, we tinkered with Aftermath, Top Secret and Twilight 2000... but alwasy, ALWAYS, there was a Champions, Fantasy Hero, DI or other (retroactively) Hero system game going on.

 

That being said, what keeps me here is the robust, foundational task resolution system for combat. OCV/DCV, maneuvers, body/stun, killing/normal damage, 3d6 bell curve, skill rolls, etc. That foundation is SO solid... you can build any kind of action/adventure house on top of it. The level of grit is there, but it is solid and consistent... not a bunch of arbitrary rulings.

 

With that... while I feel "built in powers" and such can be kludged way too much at time... the "bolt on" support of Hero is incredible. It is so easy to take a "non-Hero" mechanic like Luck Chits/Hero Points/Fate Chits and bolt it on to Hero (and do so in a bunch of different ways) because again, the foundational mechanics of the system are so solid that they can support this.

 

I would also echo Zorn's comment that Hero is excellent for supers... with the caveat that it is NOT excellent for genre emulation. You can build a fantasy world or a super world or whatever, but Hero is rational. Hero is specific and measured and internally consistent. For the most part, the source material is none of these things... especially superhero comics. The source material is whimsical and inconsistent and illogical... and Hero as a system automatically challenges these inconsistencies.

 

I like this. Hero "rationalizes the fantastic" which really forces a sober look at the source material, and supports a style of play that may be "inspired by" source material, but does not "simulate" source material. Again... I like this and will continue to use it for that.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

Hero "rationalizes the fantastic" which really forces a sober look at the source material' date=' and supports a style of play that may be "inspired by" source material, but does not "simulate" source material.[/quote']

 

Very well expressed, Neil. Would you object to my using this as a signature quotation in future?

[RDU Neil]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

Very well expressed' date=' Neil. Would you object to my using this as a signature quotation in future?[/quote']

 

Not at all. Just note that the "rationalize the fantastic" is a phrase I came up with based on something Zornwil stated in a much longer paragraph. We all feed off of each other's ideas!

[Tech]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

For me and my brother, 1981. The system continues to be versatile enough that I never left it. Oh, I've tried things like Villains and Vigilantes, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Robotech, Marvel & DC Hero System, etc. I even (briefly) looked at Superhero 2044 which I couldn't stand. Still, it was always Champions, back when it was only Champions. I used it to draw the group away from D&D and to the Hero System (sneaky person that I was). I've created dozens & dozens of heroes since of which only a few remain but the point is: with some imagination, you can keep using the system to create new & fresh heroes to use.

 

Ultimately though, regardless of which system you use, regardless of it's cost and regardless of how great a system it might be, if you don't have good friends to play it with, it won't matter or last long. I fortunately still have those types of friends - the same group from back in 1981.

 

Here's to you, guys and girls!

[actingkeith]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

I started with Champions back in 1981. I still have my 1st printing, black-and-white book up in my closet somewhere.

 

The thing that I really like, that I haven't seen mentioned specifically in this thread (and apologies if it was, and I missed it) is that not only can you play in any genre you want... but, because HERO uses a mathematically balanced creation system, you can also seemless play any sort of mix/cross/uber genre you can think of.

 

Mages and Demons and Bears, oh my! can play in a high-tech/space world.

 

Mutants and Pirates and Bears, Oh My! can play together in a Time Travel campaign.

 

Manga and Politicos and Bears, OH MY! can play together in sureal, art-deco world.

 

Any kind of character idea and be reasonably played in any kind of setting with any other kind of character ideas.

 

All you have to do is compare character point totals to know if you're realtively evenly matched.

 

Awesome.

 

And I'd like to take exception to the title of this thread... what do you mean 'what brings you back'

 

Who left?

 

I didn't.

 

-k

[ghost-angel]

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

 

I would also echo Zorn's comment that Hero is excellent for supers... with the caveat that it is NOT excellent for genre emulation. You can build a fantasy world or a super world or whatever, but Hero is rational. Hero is specific and measured and internally consistent. For the most part, the source material is none of these things... especially superhero comics. The source material is whimsical and inconsistent and illogical... and Hero as a system automatically challenges these inconsistencies.

 

I like this. Hero "rationalizes the fantastic" which really forces a sober look at the source material, and supports a style of play that may be "inspired by" source material, but does not "simulate" source material. Again... I like this and will continue to use it for that.

I would change "genre" to "source."

 

Otherwise I agree completely with the statement made.

 

I say this because to me the Genre is the metaidea the work sits in, the work (or Source Material) emulates a genre as much as the RPG.

 

There's a whole conversation on What Is Genre in the Other Genre's forum that states my full ideas of Genre.