Citizen Keen Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 Eventually, DOJ is going to have to make a new print of FRed. Not a new version, and not a reprint, but a new print. They'll have to include the errata, and other small details. So, what do you want to see? Don't ask for rules changes, or anything like that. The rules have to be 100% compatible with the rules that currently exist. But if there is an example power that you hate, or a rule that needs to be better explained, or art piece that HAS to go, add to this post. I'll start: I'd like the chapters to be listed at the top of the pages, so it's easier to open the book and know where I am. -cK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 Re: FRed Rewrite Originally posted by Citizen Keen I'd like the chapters to be listed at the top of the pages, so it's easier to open the book and know where I am. -cK Excellent suggestion, which I've seen others bring up and which I agree with. My further requests are small: I'd like to see an index of all the Power Advantages, Adders and Limitations, including ones which are currently only mentioned in a particular Power's description, so you could go to one section of the book to look them up. The existing index in FREd is a marvel, but not a lot of help if you don't know the name of what you're looking for. I'd like to see the "Genre by Genre" document as an additional chapter, preferably with character artwork. The lack of genre advice and sample characters is a major detriment to new players and GMs who want to start running games just from the main book, which they are supposed to be able to do. Other than correcting errors and maybe a bit of clarification based on issues which have been raised since 5E came out (none of which are glaring enough to come to my mind at the moment), I don't think the book would require any more substantive changes than these. It really is a very fine work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 A small layout trick -- "tabs" along the side, either printed or cut out (like many Bibles use). I suspect the "cutting" would be prohibitively expensive, but even something for one to know that a chapter begins "here" just by looking at the side would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 I don't know the acronyms yet, but I'm assuming FRed stands for Hero System 5'th Edition based on these responses. I'd like to see more written about naked power advantages, at least 3 times as much material as there is now, to make it very specific and clear. I was trying to design a super-power based on knives but both examples of knives in the book were technically wrong. I finally found the recommended way to build it in the errata, using what I think is a naked power advantage. Actually, I would like to see how every weapon in 5'th edition was built, or at least one of each type of weapon, if it doesn't take up too much space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Originally posted by Snarf I don't know the acronyms yet, but I'm assuming FRed stands for Hero System 5'th Edition based on these responses. I goes back to before 5th came out. Someone asked Steve what they should call the new tome as BBB (Big Black Book) was already in use for 4th (Big BLUE Book). Steve responded to the effect of "You can call it Fred for all I care, so long as you buy it." (NOT a direct quote!) It stuck and someone later came up with the Acronym of Fifth Rules EDition. TimS. If I got any details wrong, someone please correct me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 my 2 cents As a few others have mentioned, I'd like to see a) at least an index of all the Advantages and Limitations, or better, all the Advantages and Limitations written in the Advantages or Limitations chapters. I find it very confusing now that these are scattered through out the book now. But I realize thats a lot to ask on just a reprint, so a sidebar listing in the advantages and limitations chapters with page numbers shoud not be too hard to add. Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamo Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 I really hope someone from HERO Games/DoJ is paying attention to this thread, because I think there are a few things a revised 5th edition book would really NEED. They are: 1. All current eratta. Obviously. 2. Chapter headers at the tops of each page. 3. The host of Power options that should have been a part of the basic rules, but weren't. I'm talking about things like No Turn Mode for Movement Powers, Affects Porous for Telekinesis, multiple and mobile perception points for Clairsentience and rules for moving Continuous AoE Powers (a Mobile adder, perhaps?). 4. I'd like to see all of the martial arts maneuvers from UMA. 5. More discussion of playing not just Heroic and Superheroic, but Normal-level games! Some of us love to run adventures in genres like horror and gritty modern day action/espionage where the PCs don't start with triple-digit point totals. 6. The Genre-By-Genre document. A roleplaying game without character creation examples? Not acceptable in this day and age. Or even in the last few days and ages. I'm guessing smaller type and the better layout that's apparent in recent HERO products will make the space available. 7. Please, please, PLEASE ditch the godawful Poser-type digital art that accompanies entries like Killing Attack, Hand-To-Hand. That shoddy garbage is totally unworthy of inclusion in a professional gaming product. 8. Also, the book needs to come out QUICK. I want my uber-FREd, dammit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintara Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 The sense groups. That gave me pause. The freebies from each group (Edit: The Simulated Sense Rule, that's what it's called) aren't explicitly listed in the book, correct? I think that needs clarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christougher Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Originally posted by Yamo 4. I'd like to see all of the martial arts maneuvers from UMA. I doubt that will happen, otherwise why have the UMA? On a similar note, I'm suprised nobody has mentioned fixing the listings of martial arts maneuvers. IE: so you can go to a single page for cost and effects like you could in 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Me, I'll go along with Yamo's first two suggestions, and that's it. (Well, maybe number 6. Maybe.) Fifth Edition should remain Fifth Edition, with a minimum of changes that would cause any text to land on a different page than in the first print run. Now, I do think that some of these other things could go well into Sixth Edition, if and when Steve ever approves such a thing. Mostly, some of the new power options and campaign options (such as Yamo's mention of Normal-level games) would be good candidates. A few of the new rules ideas from Digital Hero (thinking mostly of Steve's Create Object power and Dave's new Area Of Effect options) would be good for that too. I do think that it would be cool to have a book gathering together all of the new rules options from the genre and Ultimate books (and USPD). I wouldn't include any of the genre/archetype tricks that don't involve new rules options (especially the "this is how you can build this using the existing rules" stuff), but having a book with things like, say, the No Turn Mode Advantage, the options for Telekinesis and Clairsentience from USPD, the Area Of Effect options and diceless combat from Digital Hero, a lot of the new Perks and Talents, and such would be a wonderful utility for Hero System GMs -- especially those who like to mix genres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Originally posted by BobGreenwade I do think that it would be cool to have a book gathering together all of the new rules options from the genre and Ultimate books (and USPD). I wouldn't include any of the genre/archetype tricks that don't involve new rules options (especially the "this is how you can build this using the existing rules" stuff), but having a book with things like, say, the No Turn Mode Advantage, the options for Telekinesis and Clairsentience from USPD, the Area Of Effect options and diceless combat from Digital Hero, a lot of the new Perks and Talents, and such would be a wonderful utility for Hero System GMs -- especially those who like to mix genres. I agree..I'd love to have it all in one book or a PDF. I'm in no hurry to have them redo FRED and have to buy another set of rules for the system. I don't think there is any call for that yet. Just a nice book/PDF would be fine by me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyChaos Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 I'm lazy. Therefore, I'd like to see the disads and ads multiplier table from the BBB included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 But Steve said... Steve mentioned in another forum that he has no intention at this point of coming out with a 6th edition Rulebook. (I hope I'm not misquoting ya, Steve.) That out of the way, it's a small thing, quite small actually but I'd like to see an easier way to find the formula to convert inches in movement to MPH or KPH. It's currently split between the bottom right column of one page and the top left column of the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Re: But Steve said... Originally posted by Tech Steve mentioned in another forum that he has no intention at this point of coming out with a 6th edition Rulebook. (I hope I'm not misquoting ya, Steve.) I tend to agree with him on that score. In any event, it's way too early to consider 6th edition as anything more than theoretical or hypothetical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Re: Re: But Steve said... Originally posted by BobGreenwade In any event, it's way too early to consider 6th edition as anything more than theoretical or hypothetical. 1st Edition: 1981. 2nd Edition: 1982. Elapsed time: 1 year. 2nd Edition: 1982. 3rd Edition: 1984. Elapsed time: 2 years. 3rd Edition: 1984. 4th Edition: 1989. Elapsed time: 5 years. 4th Edition: 1989. 5th Edition: 2002. Elapsed time: 13 years. At this rate of increase, the elapsed time between 5th and 6th Editions would be 31 years. Check back in 2033. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 11, 2003 Report Share Posted June 11, 2003 A Sixth Edition doubtless is, and should be a long way off. (Maybe not thirty years...) Citizen Keen made it pretty clear when he started the thread that he was talking about a new printing of Fifth Edition (Son of FREd?) which will certainly come about, at least to correct the textual errors. Most of the other suggestions here have fallen under the heading of minor rewrites or a few additional pages, which shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to fit in, but things like adding new tables in a chapter or significantly expanding descriptions of some of the rules will probably have to wait for 6E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted June 11, 2003 Report Share Posted June 11, 2003 RE: Son of FREd. Actually, couldn't we keep calling it FREd and just retcon it to mean Fifth Revision, EDitted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 I think a good reason for 6th would be to move on from this "FREd" monicker. Yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by zornwil I think a good reason for 6th would be to move on from this "FREd" monicker. Yuck. Y'know... you're allowed to ignore it. I call it 5E or H5E all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 In latin 6th would be sextus editio, or Sex Ed for short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth Y'know... you're allowed to ignore it. I call it 5E or H5E all the time. Oh I generally try to, I call it 5th edition or 5th ed. generally and I think this is the first time I've called it out. But ENOUGH is ENOUGH! Sometimes you have to make a stand!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintara Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Well, I'm a newbie, and I don't know how many times I've seen the FREd origin discussion played out. I suppose that's ironic for a game known for its superheroics (or is it simply appropriate?). (Edit: Yeah, I'm going with "appropriate" instead. It ain't ironic.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Anyway, back to the subject at hand..... I don't want much. Just a complete reformat of the whole thing Something I've always wanted is a copy of everything HERO -- Fred plus all the genre books -- in a single volume, A5 format, printed on rice paper with thumb-indents for each chapter, and bound in gold-embossed morrocco leather. Basically, what I want is something that looks and feels like those really expensive bibles you see. Too much to ask? You think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted June 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Fitz Anyway, back to the subject at hand..... I don't want much. Just a complete reformat of the whole thing Something I've always wanted is a copy of everything HERO -- Fred plus all the genre books -- in a single volume, A5 format, printed on rice paper with thumb-indents for each chapter, and bound in gold-embossed morrocco leather. Basically, what I want is something that looks and feels like those really expensive bibles you see. Too much to ask? You think? Just a bit. A wee bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Fitz Anyway, back to the subject at hand..... I don't want much. Just a complete reformat of the whole thing Something I've always wanted is a copy of everything HERO -- Fred plus all the genre books -- in a single volume, A5 format, printed on rice paper with thumb-indents for each chapter, and bound in gold-embossed morrocco leather. Basically, what I want is something that looks and feels like those really expensive bibles you see. Too much to ask? You think? Actually, if you'd stopped at "single volume," I would've been with you all the way. Of course, such a thing would have to wait until all of the currently-planned genre and Ultimate books (and possibly more than that) have been completed, include only the "new rules" from those books (see my previous post), and be priced high enough to not cut too badly into FREd's sales... but it could be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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