Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

[TheQuestionMan]

Greeting Herophiles, the Champions of Vancouver defeated the Crowns of Krimm and took possession of the Crowns. Then the avatar of the Archangel Gabriel ascended to Heaven with the Crowns and placed them in the custody of the Heavenly Host.

 

(His reward was to be given a soul and returned to earth a mortal man, but blessed with powers to battel the Diabolical forces on earth.)

 

Question: How would the forces of evil get the damned things back?

 

 

 

Cheers

 

QM

[death tribble]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

Takofanes comes out, throws himself to the floor and cries and screams until the crowns are returned. Believe me he can throw one major hissy fit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what ?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

After this type of denouement, the Crowns are gone. You'd need either enough power to assault the gates of Elysium, get deep enough in to find the "Vaulted of Really Dangerous Items," and get out, alive. If your that powerful, you don't *need* the Crowns.

 

Or, you need to be skilled enough to do a burglary run on Elysium. In *theory* this could be done, but in practice, I don't think there exists any non-god in the setting who could even attempt it.

 

Let the world breath a sigh of relief, that a great and powerful threat has been ended, forever.

[Patriot]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

A horriffic onslaught with earth being the battle ground..portals opening on every continent, for both sides. Arch -angels and arch devils recruiting humans and bestowing then with celestial abilities.

 

Major fronts in:

Las Vegas...As chosen by the evil commander, the city give evil an edge

(I dont recall the exact local) But the area around the Temple Mount in Jerusalem....Advantage Good

Siberia maybe

southern central africa

brazil

 

The Carnage to your game world could be extreme....but would offer great role-play oppurtunies

 

After the legions of good are knocked down , a more poweerful demon lord could attempt an end run for the crowns....just an idea

[Zed-F]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

Question: How would the forces of evil get the damned things back?

QM

They don't. There are some things that should be permanent, and this is one of them. If heaven itself becomes a revolving door prison, the game is bankrupt, IMHO.

[Half Baked]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

The only credible way I could think of is through corruption and deceit. Maybe a member/s of the heavenly host who guards the Crowns of Krimm is tempted by the thought of that power. It has happened before and who can say it won't happen again. They steal the crowns and are cast out to earth. Perhaps a Loki type character sneaks into to heaven to steal them or corrupts another to do so. Maybe they are allowed to be stolen as a test of some sort. We are talking about a God who gives Adam and Eve paradise, but puts a tree in it and tells them not to eat the fruit. If you don't want them to eat the fruit put the tree somewhere else! God definitely has form for testing his followers

 

Personally I wouldn't bother just to get the Crowns of Krimm back into circulation. Evil magically items are a dime a dozen in stories and legends, just use a different a one to provide the magical threat.

[assault]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

Then the avatar of the Archangel Gabriel ascended to Heaven with the Crowns and placed them in the custody of the Heavenly Host.

 

Gut reaction: what? "ascended to Heaven with the Crowns"?

 

These things have no business being in Heaven. They would be destroyed instead.

 

Question: How would the forces of evil get the damned things back?

 

Also gut reaction: they can't.

 

---

 

OK, you've got a somewhat unusual cosmology happening here. I'm fine with that. It's not one I would touch, though.

[MilkmanDan]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

Yeah, if God takes something, you should probably not allow it to come back. The only option I can think is some sort of Divine Retribution upon the peoples of Earth, but that's a bit Old Testament. Also, it would likely drive your campaign down a very moralistic road to where people wouldn't want it to go.

 

There's plenty of evil around without a couple of crowns. DEMON gets together and creates the Beanies of Beelzebub or Pith Helmet of Perdition and evil headgear again will wield its dark hair-messing power across the globe.

[Vondy]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

"I create light and form darkness." -God.

 

Without evil to turn from, there is no merit in choosing good.

 

Perhaps, in the Heavenly Court, Gabriel's decision was raised and disputed among the Heavenly Hosts - or amongst the Archangels in the Sanctum before the Throne of Glory - and the final decision, despite their initially being taken on-high, was that they should be returned to the world. Or, perhaps they were taken on-high because the Adversary (Sammael, the Satan) must choose the Crowns next owners - someone suitable corrupt who is willing to "make a pact with the devil" - and the Heavenly Court awaits that deal before releasing them into the world again.

 

I admit its a Jewish take (at variance with other opinions expressed) - that the Devil is an Archangel in good standing among the Heavenly Host and is simply doing his job as Chief Prosecutor (ala Job 1), but its an option. Not an "Old Testament" issue of revenge, but rather, an "Old Testament" parable of mankind being defined by its choices, and living by them. This could be revealed to one or more of the PCs in dreams. It could also be a springboard for an adventure - perhaps the heroes can stop someone from making that deal.

 

Personally, after a major victory like that, I would probably give the players the satisfaction of not seeing the Crowns again. In other words: making the Archangel Gabriel's decision a final expression of Divine Sentiment. Having a final impact on the game world gives players an immense sense of satisfaction. If you go the other way, however, I would wait a significant amount of time before they popped up again. But, if they do make a comeback, you could have some omen from on high as a warning that the game was, once again, afoot... and that the forces of good below (the heroes), must again to do battle in the name of the Light.

 

After all, the angles are just allegories for deeper truths, so what the heck.

[Shaft]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

For a second there, I read "Clowns of Krimm".

 

There's a visual nobody wants. See how they float?

[Vondy]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

For a second there, I read "Clowns of Krimm".

 

There's a visual nobody wants. See how they float?

 

Merry Andrew as Dark Seraph II...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

If TheQuestionMan is using a variant of the Champions Universe, then this need not necessarily be the Archangel Gabriel and Heavenly Host. In the CU the dimension of Elysium is inhabited by gods, angels, saints, devas etc. depicted in the ethically "good" religions of the world, but these beings were created by the collective psychic/spiritual energy of their massed worshippers. That's not to say that there isn't a "real" Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah or whoever a given faith believes in; but the entities purporting to be or to serve these deities that CU supers would normally interact with are those from Elysium, who although very powerful are not truly omnipotent or omniscient. So it's at least conceivable that the forces of Evil might have something to say about the disposition of the Crowns.

 

That said, TQM, I agree with the majority that this event would be an appropriate curtain to draw over the role of the Crowns in your campaign. However, if you really insist on bringing them back in, Half Baked's fully baked notion of corruption of one of the Heavenly Host by the Crowns would be the most reasonable course. This could be combined with Metaphysician's proposal for a theft of the Crowns from Elysium, with the corrupted party as "inside man."

 

Outside agencies that could contribute to bringing this about include Takofanes, whose Dragon Crown is dominant over the other six Crowns of Krim; the Dragon, who is reputed to have some connection to Krim, and who is after all the embodiment of human evil; or Therakiel, who actively seeks to promote open battle between Heaven and Hell, and might try to use such an incident to spark it. Speaking of Therakiel, if you consider using Patriot's suggestion of war on Earth between Heaven and Hell (i.e. Elysium and the Netherworld in the CU), your PCs should probably take a road trip to Vibora Bay, since it's prophesied that that final battle will take place there.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

Hmmm... not really, but that's an idea. An angel falls and takes the Crowns of Krimm with him.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

QM

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

They don't. There are some things that should be permanent' date=' and this is one of them. If heaven itself becomes a revolving door prison, the game is bankrupt, IMHO.[/quote']

Hey, stuff gets stolen from Asgard and Mt. Olympus all the time.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

Dangit QM, you took my answer After all ... absolute power corrupts absolutely ... right?

[Marketeer]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

I think you have a much easier alternative:

 

The Crowns are back on Earth.

 

Why?

 

Heaven wants them here

 

 

 

The characters will definitely want to know why, but Heaven does not answer to mortals, and does not need to provide reasons.

 

 

(As a side note, I too echo the concerns of the other GMs; it sounds like a major victory for the players and I would hesitate to simply undo it)

[assault]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

For a second there, I read "Clowns of Krimm".

 

There's a visual nobody wants. See how they float?

 

Meh. I did that joke a month ago.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1199755#post1199755

[Dr. Hercules]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

Well, who's to say that the Crown's are the only thing left by Krimm? Sceptres usually go hand in hand with Crowns. Maybe the Sceptres of Krimm are floating around somewhere waiting for some unsupecting fool to find one of them.

 

Another option you could take is the whole AIM/Cosmic Cube thing but with a mystic twist. DEMON starts working on a ritual to create a Crown of there very own, could be called the Demon Crown or something. But DEMON needs to obtain several things for the ritual, thus it becomes an adventure were the PC's try and stop DEMON. If they fail, DEMON succeeds in creating a Crown but it proves unstable and disappears....to some where else.

 

Now its floating around out there and the PC's are not sure when it will pop up again.

[OddHat]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

You don't. You create new crowns if you do anything, and even that's kind of an FU to the players if you don't give them a reasonable chance to stop it. Better to switch to other threats.

 

That said, you could have fun with a mystic conspiracy to steal part of Takofanes power to forge new crowns, with the players trying to stop the conspirators before they draw down Tak's wrath on Canada.

[Shaft]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

You don't. You create new crowns if you do anything, and even that's kind of an FU to the players if you don't give them a reasonable chance to stop it. Better to switch to other threats.

 

That said, you could have fun with a mystic conspiracy to steal part of Takofanes power to forge new crowns, with the players trying to stop the conspirators before they draw down Tak's wrath on Canada.

 

Yeah, it's not like there is a lack of uber-threats to the world. Let the PCs have this one.

[Shaft]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

Meh. I did that joke a month ago.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1199755#post1199755

 

It's an honour to share twisted thinking patterns with you.

[Pyre-Archer]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

[Leans back, taking notes]

 

Well, there's always misguided summoning attempts that wind up bringing something worse over. Say, Bloody Mary from Silver Age Sentinels.

 

It is entirely possible that the maker of the Crowns may yet still exist in some disembodied form; and he won't like what we did to his trinkets...

[Powerhouse]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

Personally, I'd say that they are unretrievable, case closed. Although I would also state that, rather than being taken to heaven (where as noted, they don't belong), just have them be destroyed.

 

And just imagine how great it feels for the players to have done some lasting good. I know I would be unhappy as a player if the Crowns reappeared later.

[Kirby]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

Question: How would the forces of evil get the damned things back?

I am of the opinion that "they don't." The PCs have done well and the Crowns are destroyed. This is an underscored highpoint in the game where there is closure.

 

My curiosity/concern is why does the GM feel they need to be returned? As a player, if the Crowns resurfaced in the game, I would be of the mindset that "no good deed goes unpunished by the GM" and wonder why. After all if an item goes to the one place where all is good, and the item is to be locked up/destroyed, I'd wonder what hope there is in life.

 

YMMV

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Champions Universe without the Crowns of Krimm

 

No its just I have never in 25++yrs of gaming seen anything quite like it.