Altered Reality (making yourself)

[RPMiller]

What guidelines do people use, if any, for making real people? For example, if you were to make yourself, how many points would you be, what would your stats look like? Are there some actual measurements that can be used to create yourself? I'm assuming that most people would have some serious disads. Probably more than they have point limits for. Has anyone tried this using 5th?

 

NOTE: My biggest concern, and I'm absolutely serious, is players "overestimating" their abilities, and just as important "underestimating" their abilities.

[Savinien]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

Nope. Any time I've ever heard of a group trying it... Hard feeling have always ensued.

[Cancer]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

Yeah, what Savinien said.

 

In another thread a few months back I recall stating that I probably come out as an Incompetent Normal, because in RL I am utterly worthless in combat, and that's really all that matters in HERO System.

 

Also, 5ER's INT and Skill rules muddy the waters around those places where I actually am above average. I concluded my only place in a HERO game would be as an occasionally-helpful Contact or an incompetent DNPC.

[RPMiller]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

Very interesting... I think we all tried this when we were younger I'm guessing. I find it interesting how many groups failed to successfully do this.

 

My own experience was perhaps a rarity then. A little background, my gaming group growing up was comprised of the same people and we were all very good friends. We went to parties together and hung out together even when not gaming. At some point we decided to make ourselves for a GURPS game I think it was. We all went to work and when we were finished there was a lot of "you so don't have those stats", "you aren't that good at X", etc. Because we all knew each other and trusted each other we devised a different method. We took what we had made ourselves and gave it to the others. The others would then go over it and reach a consensus of additions, deletions and modifications. When it was done we all agreed to play the final product. Surprisingly, it worked! In the scenario (it was a Red Dawn rip off) everyone was able to do pretty much exactly what they could in real life, and although it only ran for about half a dozen sessions it was probably the most continual playing we had ever done. In fact, OOC conversations almost didn't exist.

 

I'm very curious if something like that could be achieved with HERO. Based on various other discussions I've read, I'm starting to believe it simply can't be done.

[Cancer]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

I tend to agree with you there, partly because if you pose the question, "How would you model doing a doctoral thesis in a HERO game, and what benefits come for a character that does one?", the answer you get back is "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Let's go do something more fun, like try to play FATAL."

[RPMiller]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

 

Edit: Weird it dropped the smiley and made it lower case... Now it's working... Strange.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

We did something akin to this when we played V&V back when I was younger. It was a round table of akin to RP's experience and then we rolled on the power table

[Curufea]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

There are a series of guidelines in BTRC's Timelord RPG that cover assessing a real person's stats that are quite good.

 

We had a game the other night where we played ourselves going as well - however it was systemless game, so stats weren't used (it wasn't narrativist though).

[RPMiller]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

Cool. So could those guidelines be adapted to Hero or are we still in the "not possible" realm? I honestly would like to know how to do this, or if it is possible. I've been mulling it over all day, and I'm still struggling with how to do it.

[The Monster]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

I'm with Cancer. If I'm generous, I come out with about 5 points after disads (that's even adding stuff like PS: RP GM 16- just to drive up point costs). Actually, now that I'm officially over 40, I doubt I could even come up positive.

 

I do recall playing V&V, lo these many years ago. It was fun enough, though IIRC stats mattered very little compared to the powers you rolled up.

[RPMiller]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

Yea, powers aren't even going to come into play with my idea since this is very much us now. I think it is going to be another system although I'm waiting to see what the Ultimate Skill has to offer.

[tkdguy]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

If you're trying to play a game where you and your group (as PCs) find yourselves in a certain situation, you could use the Average Person or Noteworthy Normal write-ups found in FRED to represent yourselves.

 

Unless anyone in the group practices a combat sport, you probably won't have to include combat in your game. That can be a good change of pace. I notice people who play themselves in a game (I've done it once or twice) tend to be more cautious during combat situations and freak out a bit if they get "killed" in the game. It may be better to put the players in situations that can be resolved without combat.

[OddHat]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

Lots of threads on this, and a good old chestnut. I think I did this the first time playing Villains and Vigilantes about 25-26 years ago.

 

From a playability perspective, I'd just give everyone 25 points, tell them to take 25 points in disads, and leave it at that. If the Navy Seal in your group insists he's a 550 point character, explain that it's a 50 point game. If the depressed unemployed wiccan in your group insists that he has 225 points in disads, explain that he gets points for 25 and everything after that isn't worth anything in the game.

 

If anyone insists on "realism", I'd take them into my weight room and have them demonstrate their deadlifts, then open the Ultimate Brick. That give you their STR score (which of course doesn't really work out, as HERO STR is an abstraction). The other stats are harder to guestimate, but I'd usually say 7 or less = very young, ill or very poorly developed, 8-10 = unexceptional, 11-13 = developed and enough to build a hobby or modest career using that stat, 14-17 = exceptional, draws considerable praise, can build a solid career on that ability, 18-22 = enough to earn lasting, wide spread acclaim in your field if you have the skills to support it, 23+ = world class and almost certainly famous for it unless you're a complete emotional wreck and therefore incapable of holding down a job.

 

The guys in your office probably have an 8-10 in most stats, and maybe an 11-13 in the stat they use to make their living or pursue their hobbies. If they're really passionate about a hobby or making a really good living based on raw ability, 14-17 is possible, though I'd take it with a grain of salt. 18+ is very unlikely unless you're gaming with top athletes and researchers.

 

Skills follow, imo, the same pattern. 7- is what most people remember 5 years after they studied a subject, 8-10- in hobbies or whatever they use to make a basic living, 11-13- if they're notably good at their job, 14-17- if they're acknowledged as experts, 18- or higher if they're genuine leaders in their fields.

 

The high school kid who goes to Karate once or twice a month when he remembers may have KS: Karate 7-. The twenty something who's at the dojo 2-4 days a week because he wants to impress the hot girl who works in Starbucks may have a KS: Karate 8-10- and a few skill levels in Punch/Block/Dodge. The competitive Karateka has a KS 11-, 10+ points in maneuvers, and a few levels with his martial art.

 

Alternative: Just grab a Dark Champions package and go from there. It's only a game.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

One (possible) way to deal with the over/underestimation would be for every player (plus the GM) to assign stats to each player based on their feelings about it, then average the results. If the player thinks he has a 18 DEX but five people think it's an 11, the end result will be about 12, which is close enough for government work.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

I notice people who play themselves in a game (I've done it once or twice) tend to be more cautious during combat situations and freak out a bit if they get "killed" in the game. It may be better to put the players in situations that can be resolved without combat.

 

I agree. One player (the guy I'm saying 'arrivaderci' to in Da Rules thread) always plays a character with the same personality, which seems to be an idealized (to his own exceptionally testosterone-addled ideals) version of himself, and thus takes it rather personally when he gets beaten on, or his swaggering machismo doesn't impress someone.

[Spidey88]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

A buddy of mine ran a GURPS game a few years back where we played ourselves as characters. He said: "write yourselves up as 100-point characters - but don't sweat it too much, you won't be staying that way very long." As a result of that lack of pressure, we set about making statting up ourselves with very little squabbling. The only case of one-upmanship was when my buddy gave himself an "attractive" appearance. I figured "heck, I'm at least at good-looking as Steve!" and gave myself "attractive" as well.

 

The campaign didn't last very long, unfortunately - so a couple years later, I basically tried the same premise with a (mostly) different group using HERO. I admit, I have issues with using HERO at low point levels (the, IMHO, lack of granularity between the effects of attributes in the "normal" range), but it never came up - nor did we have to worry about statting ourselves accurately - since we just roleplayed the first session (which led up to us getting superpowers) freeform, without even having character sheets. After we got our powers, everything (even INT and skills) had the potential to change, so it didn't matter much who had what (though I did notice at least 75% of us had an INT score of 23). It actually worked out pretty well - of course, there was no combat to speak of that first session...

 

I think, though, that the issue of writing up a group of real people as characters boils down to this: it's all relative. It may be difficult to figure out, say, what my exact DEX score is; but (ahem) if I do say so myself, all my gaming buddies would agree that I've easily got the highest score amongst us - so I'd be the high benchmark. Steve has the best aerobic fitness, so he should likely get the best CON, etc. If Steve gives himself a DEX of 13, I should have at least a 14 - If I have a CON of 13, Steve should have a CON of at least 14, etc. If noone goes overboard with their estimates, have at 'er - as long as the relation between the group feels right. Really, this is the only basis for measuring I've used (coupled with common sense).

 

Of course, this only works if you've got a group that knows each other pretty well. And, for the sake of politeness, you can't be too emphatic about who sets the low benchmarks (eg. Alright, George, everyone here knows you're the ugliest). I say: unless they volunteer themselves otherwise, let everyone be at least "average" in their attributes (10, since we all know gamers are a cut above your average person on the street;) ). I suspect COM and INT will be particularly tender spots - equal tact may be required with some disads! In all cases, I'd say: let everyone see each other's characters and judge for themselves if they're kosher. Disads are probably best handled by the player himself, at least for the first draft.

 

As for points? Don't give a budget at first - just make sure everyone knows to be fairly conservative. After the first draft is done, take a look at the highest-point character/player, tell him to scale it back a bit (or not, if he/she really is just plain exceptional) and give everybody else the same budget. Accurate? Likely no. Polite and argument-defusing? Likely yes. I imagine people will respond better to "you get to be a bit better than that, actually" than "no, actually, you suck a little more than what you've got here."

[Nolgroth]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

I just crafted myself on 50 points (25/25). I could have probably gotten around 45 - 50 in Disadvantages, but I really didn't have anything to spend the points on.

 

I think the overall simulation is pretty accurate. There are some holes but I think I could run the James Cook character rather easily in a low point game.

 

I suppose I could scrape a few more points together by looking at the Everyman skill category. Might be worth it if I had a place to put the points.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

BTRC published a game called Timelords, that gave a system for building yourself

and how to figure stats...

 

it didnt work out too badly... although the GM who was new to our game club dropped the group into a fantasy world with whatever gear they had on their person at that moment.

 

one of the guys tended to sit and knit chainmail during gaming sessions and still was a very good player, he had enough with him to actually finish a sleeveless shirt.

 

it can make for an interesting group dynamic depending on the situation you drop the players into.

[Kenn]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

Nope. Any time I've ever heard of a group trying it... Hard feeling have always ensued.

 

Have I told you those horror stories?

[Kenn]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

Before I ever started playing, my future first role-playing group tried the Everyone-Assess-And-Average method to build themselves (in AD&D.) It resulted in a lot of hard feelings. Most of them had only known one another for a few months, and everyone was a little harsh in their assessments of everyone else.

 

A few years later, a later group I was in, we were trying to build ourselves in Chill. We never actually played. We ended up with cartoon versions of ourselves. In the areas where we had the aptitude, we were too good. In the areas where we were bad, we were pathetic. Most of us were honest, but we had no scale, so things got exaggerated.

 

Plus there was one player who insisted he'd need at least half again as many points to build himself as the rest of us had. He was shocked when I beat him arm wrestling left handed. He could consistently beat me right handed, but I could consistently defeat him left. (I am right handed.) But I at least proved that no, he really wasn't so much stronger than everyone else.

[RPMiller]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

It definitely takes a group of people that are not only honest with each other, but also honest with themselves to be able to pull it off, however if it doesn't have to be 100% accurate and everyone gets the same points I think fudging here and there would work fine.

 

I'm mainly interested in if it can be done in HERO system rather than if it can be done at all. This was the original point of the thread. From the sound of it, it still doesn't sound like it is feasible in HERO.

[OddHat]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

I'm mainly interested in if it can be done in HERO system rather than if it can be done at all. This was the original point of the thread. From the sound of it, it still doesn't sound like it is feasible in HERO.

 

It's as easy as writing up any other character if you don't mind the fudging inherent in the mechanics. The arguments, if any, will be over whether the player is being honest or what exactly an X or less in a given skill actually means in real world terms. Those are problems you'd have in any game system.

[RPMiller]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

Although percentile systems really go a long way to smoothing out that skills issue. I think the biggest hurdle is the characteristics. The Ultimate Skills book would probably take care of the other issue I have which is the lack of said skills. (Yup. Being lazzzzzy. )

[OddHat]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

Although percentile systems really go a long way to smoothing out that skills issue.

 

I disagree. The problem isn't "What percentage does Fry Chef 11- equal"; the problem is that people will argue endlessly about what actually falls under "Fry Chef", what the player's actual score in Fry Chef might be, and whether or not he qualifies for the skill at all.

 

I think the biggest hurdle is the characteristics.

 

I'd say that the biggest hurdle is that game systems of necessity have to represent real world skills and abilities in an abstract form, and game players are often pedantic and argumentative, especially online. Not sure there much you can do about it other than agree that the mechanics are just an abstract approximation and get on with the game.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Altered Reality (making yourself)

 

Hmmm...I do remember doing this for a Chill campaign (a horror game based on the old TimeMaster system from way back when) when I decided to play myself (I really wasn't into the genre, but my friends were). As I remember, the game was a mostly "in-the-headspace" thing, so my lack of physical abilities didn't make much of a difference. If memory serves, mine was the only character of the original group to survive to the end of the campaign. In retrospect, playing myself really wasn't much fun, but if whatever flips your switch. I may try this on a group of players in a Traveller game in the near future (if they're game for it) -- say a bunch that have just awakened from an extended cryosleep?

 

Matt "My-stats-are-probably-pathetic-but-I-would-have-an-impressive-set-of-completely-useless-skills-by-now" Frisbee