Ran my first FH session... some questions

[The Souljourner]

So, I whipped up a few characters for my players so they could get the feel of the game. I made a fighter, a rogue, and a wizard.

 

I couldn't decide what to do for a magic system, so I just made up a multipower with a bunch of ultra slots, and common limitations of gestures, incantations, and Spell. It actually worked out stupidly well. a 45 point multipower with like 8 spells was not too many points at all (22 for the reserve and about 2 points per spell = 38 points). So, am I missing something? Is this not a good way to do it? I know it kinda makes it so that all a wizard's spells are the same active points cost... but other than that, are there drawbacks?

 

How many points do you start PCs off with? I was planning on 100 points +50 points of disadvantages (I don't like a ton of disadvantages... it makes more work for me, and makes PCs come up with too many wacky drawbacks for their characters just to eke out a few more points). But when I was building the characters, I kinda stalled at about 100 points. I was trying not to make the characters too stupidly good... it's really amazing how much you can get out of 100 points when you're not buying many if any powers.

 

What do you suggest for CV limits? Damage limits? it seems with even a moderate amount of points you can easily have people with 10 OCV doing like 4d6 killing. I gave my wizard 20 intelligence because wizards are supposed to be intelligent, but then he complained it didn't help his spellcasting any... which is true, and I don't know how to do it without actually restricting his spellcasting... the only way intelligence could make you better is if there was an int roll to spellcasting, and that just makes spellcasting worse.

 

OK, I guess I'll leave it at that. Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

-Nate

[Savinien]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

Your system will work if that's what you're looking for. I believe Killer Shrike's High Fantasy Paradigm for Vancian magic uses something similar. After all, if you guys are having fun then you're doing it right.

 

Personally, I use 50+50 for my game Fourth Age game. CVs seem to be around 7 - 10 with SPD 2 - 3. Damage limits (and a magic system) are more arbitrary and depend on the feel you're looking for in your campaign, IMO. I like a grittier feel and keep rDEF low.

 

Martial Manuevers require extensive training in my setting so, CVs aren't too hog-wild.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

I had my players start at 75+75 (they've since earned about 100), which had them starting as reasonably strong heroes. I emphasized skills a lot in creation, and made it mandatory that spellcasters needed to have a skill in the type of magic they used. I handled spells as a VPP, which allows them to use more than one at a time.

 

I didn't bother capping damage levels or CVs, and they're not overly munchkin or overpowered. I did ask that they give me a logical reason why their core stats increase before they spend points on that, so I think that helps in keeping stat inflation down. Also, despite the very generous amounts of XP I was giving them from the start, they have plenty of things to spend this XP on, so they're not spending it to be killing machines.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

I use MP for spells in my game, and have never had a problem with it.

 

And yes, if you don't go hog-wild with stat inflation, and you don't have too many powers, you can make a halfway decent character on just 100 points.

 

Sounds to me like you're doing just fine.

[The Souljourner]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

Thanks for the responses I guess I'll give them the go ahead for 150 points and see what they come up with.

 

We used hit locations last night and it made battle a lot more interesting, I think. Getting x2 body can really hurt! The wizard was almost one-punched (well, clubbed in the vitals).... we figured out he might want to make some kind of shield spell

 

-Nate

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

On the topic of making INT important for magic weilders...

I totally agree with Alice... I almost always make my magic systems use a "control skill" (Power Skill: Magic, aka Magic skill) for casting spells (RSR as a near universal limit on spells) as well as an "access skill" (Inventor Skill: Magical Research) required to freely spend XP on adding additional spells (This last isn't a requirement, but allows a player to bypass what might otherwise be a frustrating time trying to acheive the appropriate knowledge in play). Making both skills INT based goes a long way towards encouraging higher INT mages. Using the optional Spell slot system is another, but it doesn't hold up all that well using a MP magic system compared to a straight spell purchase model.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

I let my players make characters on 75+75. I think it was way too many points. What ends up happening is some characters can be WAY more effective in a fight than others. More points makes it hard to have any sort of balance.

 

As for damage caps, think about what the average person will wear for armor. Let's say most people use leather. Then you need to decide how much DEF this provides. I believe FH lists it as 2-4 DEF, but you can use any number you please. Based on that, think about how much damage you want a weapon to do to someone wearing leather. You can make it anything from barely a scratch (longer fights) to brutal (shorter fights). Once you know that, compare it to the average DEF of armor in your game to figure out how much damage weapons should do. I aim for an average damage roll doing 1-2 BODY to the average armor wearer which tends to draw fights out longer.

 

Good luck. Welcome to Fantasy Hero!

[Starwolf]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

Thanks for the responses I guess I'll give them the go ahead for 150 points and see what they come up with.

 

We used hit locations last night and it made battle a lot more interesting, I think. Getting x2 body can really hurt! The wizard was almost one-punched (well, clubbed in the vitals).... we figured out he might want to make some kind of shield spell

 

-Nate

 

RFLOL I almost choked on my soda when I read this... I can see it now,

 

GM: OK phased combat starts... Wizard your action?

 

Wizard: I summon the mystic shield of gonad warding!

 

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

RFLOL I almost choked on my soda when I read this... I can see it now,

 

GM: OK phased combat starts... Wizard your action?

 

Wizard: I summon the mystic shield of gonad warding!

 

 

Perhaps another use for the Cup of Al' Akbar.

[Vondy]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

I use a skill based magic system, but MP systems work fine as well. Its just a question of personal taste. I generally run 75+75, but have run 100+50 in the past. I like players to be competent, and my games are often skill and role-play heavy, so they need the points. My players were disadvantage hounds, and I had a few who would take additional disads without gaining points, so the standard 75+75 worked fine for my group. At the same time, you can tell good stories and flesh out good characters with a few well chosen disads and good role play, so the 100+50 is just as proper. Again, its a question of personal taste. What works, works. I allow stats to 30 (with a hard cap), but I use a different, "more realistic" strength table. Also, anything over 20 is generally considered exceptional - it usually represents a characters "shtick." In general dex scores tend to run 14-18, speed runs 3-4 (4 is the cap), and CVs normally run from 5-10, with anything higher reflecting real mastery (as do martial maneuvers). The average combat oriented PC runs between 8-10. Resistant defenses generally run 5-10 and DCs between 4-9. Hit locations hurt. Also, I only allow 3, 5, and 8 point levels. I don't normally allow 2 and 10 point levels (I'm kinder about the latter in solo-games).

[The Souljourner]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

I set the NCM for Speed at 3 instead of 4, because otherwise there's really no reason why everyone wouldn't just get 4. At 10 points (assuming everyone gets 3, which I think is almost mandatory), it's just too beneficial not to.

 

I may consider putting RSR on spells... it seems like spellcasting is a little too good right now (the spellcaster, if he hadn't been one-clubbed, was going to start easily mopping guys up... and with the small amount of END each spell often costs, he wasn't going to have to worry about that restriction much either (until after he got knocked out and woke up with 5 END )

 

-Nate

[Markdoc]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

I'll echo the others - sounds like you are doing fine.

 

I also primarily use multipowers for magic and that works fine (and has done for many, many years). As the characters develop, you will probably find that not all spells in a MP end at the same level, because in many cases, there are combos they use together and players can shave a point or two by not using multi-slots. In some magical systems, I further enforce that by requiring that all spells are ultra slots - in other words, you don't learn "variable effect fireball" but you learn "Vathek's Conflagration" - which has a specific non-variable effect (that makes it easy to avoid excesive min-maxing).

 

For the high INT wizard, if you are not using skill rolls, it still makes sense since magical types often have lots of INT-based skills - cryptography to puzzle out ancient runes, KS: analyse magic, to figure out exactly what that magical scroll you found actually does, and so on.

 

As far as points go, I usually start at 50+50. You can, as you have noted, build a pretty competent character for that and I have found that if you have two 150 point characters, one made fresh and the other made at 100 + 50 points of experience that the second has more breadth, due to skills, KS:'s and languages picked up in play.

 

Last off, I don't bother with CV or damage caps, but (as noted in another recent thread) I don't allow stacking of normal equipment and powers, which stops things getting out of hand early on. As an aside, that means I don't allow Deadly Blow, which is *extremely* unbalancing - especially at lower levels.

 

have fun!

 

Cheers, Mark

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

 

I may consider putting RSR on spells... it seems like spellcasting is a little too good right now (the spellcaster, if he hadn't been one-clubbed, was going to start easily mopping guys up... and with the small amount of END each spell often costs, he wasn't going to have to worry about that restriction much either (until after he got knocked out and woke up with 5 END )

 

-Nate

 

Extra Time and Requires a Skill Roll being standard limitations on spells will help tone down the casters, as will increased END.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

I gave my wizard 20 intelligence because wizards are supposed to be intelligent' date=' but then he complained it didn't help his spellcasting any... which is true, and I don't know how to do it without actually restricting his spellcasting... the only way intelligence could make you better is if there was an int roll to spellcasting, and that just makes spellcasting worse.[/quote']

 

Placing an INT roll on spellcasting might "make spellcasting worse" but adding the "Requires Skill Roll" limitation to the spells (which is how you would place in INT roll on the spellcasting) will make the spells cheaper - which in turn will allow the wizard to have more of them.

 

Another method I've used to make INT more important to wizards is to build all spells with the "Delayed Effect" advantage (usually using the "Extra Time" limitation to offset the cost increase). The effect of this akin to the D&D trope of wizard preparing/memorizing their spells in the morning and then firing them off at will during the rest of the day. When using Delayed Effect, it is required that some limitation be imposed on how many powers/spells you can have locked and loaded - the typical method is for the GM to declare that you can only have some fraction of INT in spells prepared (I like INT/3 for the number of slots a wizard can have). This make INT extremely important.

[The Monster]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

My FH was 75+75, which worked fine - you can get some pretty impressive heroes at this level. The only caps I recall stating were: DEF 10 for armor or protective spells, and you could never use more than 6 skill levels at any time. That, and I was designing pretty much all the magic, since I was one of the few who really knew the system.

 

RSR for magic was standard, based on INT. That, and the spell maintenance slots already described, make INT worthwhile for casters. (An amusing aside: one guy was a magic-boosted fighter - but by the time he got done casting his sword boost, his armor boost, and his skill bost spells, the fight would be mostly over with. He was almost unstoppable at full strength, but really slow to get there.) I didn't explore the Delayed Effect option at all.

 

Hit locations I always use in anything less than supers; there's just too much flavor and tactical options lost without them. They are dangerous, and make otherwise overwhelming characters have a little respect for even the average sword swing - all it takes is one good roll, and you can end up stunned or worse. Of course, since it works on the bad guys too, it's all good. And it encourages players to apply skill levels to counter called-shot penalties.

[swobeas]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

I require spells to have Concentration: 1/2 DCV and of course Skill rolls which are modified if the mage is hit during spellcasting (-1 to roll for every 2 points of BODY damage) + extra time + incantations + gestures.

Magic is a real complex and complicated to handle zhing IMHO and shouldn't havt the flair of superheros powers, at least im most natasy settings.

 

And I started with 50 + 50 points. A 150 point character seems to quite complete for most character concepts. So why adventuring? Mony? Fame?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

And I started with 50 + 50 points. A 150 point character seems to quite complete for most character concepts. So why adventuring? Mony? Fame?

 

To satisfy your psych limits? My general uber-rule for all games is "You can make a character who is motivated to adventure, or one who isn't. If you choose the latter, don't be surprised when you are bored because your character doesn't adventure - you designed him that way!"

[stewart]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

i'm about to run my first fh game, and i'm wondering what folks do around awarding experience? speciffically, suggestions on how much.

 

i'm aware that the amount i award will affect how fast characters can grow, but i'm wondering what is a good standard / medium amount i can base off of? what have other folks used?

 

i'm thinking around 3 points, since 3 pts is about half a die in something, so that by game two characters can feel like they've got something new-ish.

 

feedback welcomed!

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

I'd recommend breaking it down, awarding more XP for things you want to see, and less when you see things you want to discourage. For instance, if your players aren't very active with their RP, award an additional point for "good roleplaying", or withold it if they do a terrible job. Always award at least 1 XP for showing up, and award more at the end of a story arc or when they reach a difficult goal. Make it contingent on their participation.

 

That said, yes, 3 is a good average.

[CourtFool]

Look ma! No INT!

 

The complaint I have heard about using Multipowers for magic is that all spells will have the same exact Limitations. Placing Limitations on the pool (which affects all slots) provides decent returns. Placing Limitations on individual slots is not worth it point wise. As an aside, I have considered building magic with Multipowers and not allowing Limitations on the pool but insisting on Limitations on the slots. This would mean there is a high 'buy in' for spells, however, adding additional spells would be cheap.

 

There are plenty of ways of making INT important to spellcasting. Hero does not force you to make it so. It is simply up to the GM. There have been several good examples given. A few non-Hero mechanics you could use is that a spellcaster may only know INT number of spells; or INTx2. You could also say the active points of a spell may not exceed INTx2 or INTx3.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

To satisfy your psych limits? My general uber-rule for all games is "You can make a character who is motivated to adventure' date=' or one who isn't. If you choose the latter, don't be surprised when you are bored because your character doesn't adventure - you designed him that way!"[/quote']

 

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Hugh Neilson again.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Ran my first FH session... some questions

 

i'm about to run my first fh game, and i'm wondering what folks do around awarding experience? speciffically, suggestions on how much.

 

i'm aware that the amount i award will affect how fast characters can grow, but i'm wondering what is a good standard / medium amount i can base off of? what have other folks used?

 

i'm thinking around 3 points, since 3 pts is about half a die in something, so that by game two characters can feel like they've got something new-ish.

 

feedback welcomed!

 

I mostly agree with Madam President; however, my "gold standard" is 2 xp/session. Everyone is used to it, it's more than one but less than anything else. It gives me latitude to grant "bonus XP" when necessary without feeling like I'm breaking one of the natural laws of the universe.

 

And you're mostly right, except "5 points" is what it takes to boost just about anything; it's a die of EB/Suppress, a half die-ish thingy of Aid/Drain, a pip of Killing. However, it's also: 5 points of STR, 2 points of BODY, 10 points of COM, a CSL, a new contact, a refined talent or perk, all depends.

[Markdoc]

Re: Look ma! No INT!

 

The complaint I have heard about using Multipowers for magic is that all spells will have the same exact Limitations. Placing Limitations on the pool (which affects all slots) provides decent returns. Placing Limitations on individual slots is not worth it point wise.

 

My experience says otherwise - I think simply because most players are cheap enough that even saving one or two points on a slot appeals to them - and it's not like they have hundreds of points to spend.

 

It is fair to say that most spells share almost all of the same limitations - but then I require 4 specific limitations on all human magic, so I can't blame the players for that!

 

cheers, Mark

[CourtFool]

Re: Look ma! No INT!

 

My experience says otherwise - I think simply because most players are cheap enough that even saving one or two points on a slot appeals to them - and it's not like they have hundreds of points to spend.

 

It is fair to say that most spells share almost all of the same limitations - but then I require 4 specific limitations on all human magic, so I can't blame the players for that!

 

cheers, Mark

 

For the record, I was playing Devil's advocate. I do not have a problem with Multipowers. I was simply stating some of the arguments I had heard others make against Multipowers.

 

I completely agree with you that players will save as many points as possible. All the more reason to lump all of the Limitations on the Pool instead of the Slot. They will use the same 3 or 4 Limitations on the Pool instead of mixing them up on different Slots. If you have 4 Limitations that will save you a -1 on the Pool, you are not going to take 4 different Limitations to save a -1 on each Slot. You may add 1 or 2 more Limitations on a Slot that really can not be applied to all of them.

[Markdoc]

Re: Look ma! No INT!

 

If you have 4 Limitations that will save you a -1 on the Pool' date=' you are not going to take 4 [b']different[/b] Limitations to save a -1 on each Slot. You may add 1 or 2 more Limitations on a Slot that really can not be applied to all of them.

 

No - what you describe above is what happens: the pool gets a bunch of common lim.s (Gestures, incantations, can only use when naked, etc) and then the individual slots tend to get extra limits dropped on them to "flavour" the spells and shave a few points.

 

But it does dispel the "all same limittaions" idea.

 

cheers, Mark