WWYCD: Mindset

[quozaxx]

There is a new superheroine in town. She goes by the name: Mindset.

 

Mindset's main power is to completely alter a villain's way of thinking. (A powerful transform).

 

Since she has started, every villain she has come up against, has either turned themselves in, turned in their costumes (and confomed to a "normal" life), or have become heroes themselves.

 

After some time she, (along with some of the reformed villains), approach you and ask if you'd be willing to help take down Dr. Destroyer (or equally powerful villain).

 

(Assuming you decide to help). Plans are made. As the final day approaches, You notice that Mindset is getting a little nervous taking out someone that powerful. When she suddenly pops off the question: "Is it wrong to FORCE someone to change their mind?"

 

WWYCD?

[Dust Raven]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

There is a new superheroine in town. She goes by the name: Mindset.

 

Mindset's main power is to completely alter a villain's way of thinking. (A powerful transform).

 

Since she has started, every villain she has come up against, has either turned themselves in, turned in their costumes (and confomed to a "normal" life), or have become heroes themselves.

 

After some time she, (along with some of the reformed villains), approach you and ask if you'd be willing to help take down Dr. Destroyer (or equally powerful villain).

 

(Assuming you decide to help). Plans are made. As the final day approaches, You notice that Mindset is getting a little nervous taking out someone that powerful. When she suddenly pops off the question: "Is it wrong to FORCE someone to change their mind?"

 

WWYCD?

 

I'd say "Yes, and that's why I've secretly planed to sabotage this mission from the start."

 

As for my characters...

 

Dust Raven: This is no different than brainwashing, but at least it's cheaper than prison and feels less dirty than murder.

 

Zectron: Such a moral dilemma would likely give poor Zectron a mental breakdown...

 

Ashton: That doesn't really matter now, Mindset. By now Destroyer has already learned of our plan through his spies and the only reason we've gotten this far is because he's developed a method to reverse the effects of your powers and we've just brought him his new army.

[Hermit]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

There is a new superheroine in town. She goes by the name: Mindset.

 

Mindset's main power is to completely alter a villain's way of thinking. (A powerful transform).

 

Since she has started, every villain she has come up against, has either turned themselves in, turned in their costumes (and confomed to a "normal" life), or have become heroes themselves.

 

Gaze would think long about it, then seek her out.

"I can understand the temptation to do what you have been doing, trust me. Not a day goes by I am not tempted to mentally rewrite some foe... particularly when it seems the law, like a toothless tiger, limps along helplessly. But are you sure you realize the box you are opening? The dangers? Every step you take across this line, the bar is lowered. You change a murderer... surely that's justified. Then suddenly, you shift one who was ATTEMPTING murder... then you find yourself deciding perhaps the thieves need to appreciate others hard work... where does it end? Turn your power instead to helping those who WANT to be changed. You'd be surprised how many see that power as a gift. Phobias, addictions, mental traumas, you might help any victims of these... but with their permission. Think about it."

Then he'd leave, and keep an eye on if it sunk in.

 

And wonder if this made him a complete hypocrite considering how close he's come to doing this himself.

 

And he'd probably inform her, if she asked, that Destroyer was way out of her league

[Comic]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

"I don't understand how there's even a question, unless some ally of Dr. Destroyer has gotten wind of our plans and is trying to subvert your will." A quizzical look. "Do you force an innocent child to change its mind when you stop it from doing something truly injurious to itself or another? Those who do evil suffer, and cannot know how they suffer until they can see what it means to do good. Your gift, your special talent, is no different from any healer's, only it heals the wounds of the soul.

 

"Besides, how do you know you aren't merely blocking some other agency from forcing all these people to act as they have in the past at its behest, and not their own?

 

"No, your question is profoundly meaningless, except that it shows you to have a good heart and a good nature, compassion and an interest in what others truly desire and need. Honor that core of yourself by resolving to carry forward the best in you to bring out the best in others.

 

"Of course, if you try to force me to change.. won't that get interesting?

[Badger]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

Badger- is big on free will, would never condone someone using such a power. Would probably consider her a "villain" he must deal with, and treat her as such. The robbing of free will is the worst crime in his book.

 

 

Frosty Bob- Well a lot depends on one question........"is she hot?"

[Drhoz]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

Zero, a mentalist who's afraid of physical violence, but would love an excuse not to have anything to do to provoke Destroyer, since he already has him as a Hunted, would nonetheless say "um, no?"

 

Because Destroyer really is that much of a threat.

 

Vitus would loose his temper. He's already annoyed at the idea he has to put down everything he's doing to to hare off after some sad little megalomaniac that's never done anything to him, and now the stupid ape who had the idea in the first place is having second thoughts?

 

"Probably. This bloody planet won't let you blast some pathetic little carjacker's liver out of his arse, on fire, without everybody making a big song and dance about it. I'm

sure

they'll object to you hammering his frontal lobes into something more socially constructive.

 

"But you know what? We're going to do it anyway. Did I object when the enchanters tried to mind-control me back when I was still the Alchemical Prophet? Certainly, at the time, but in retrospect I see they were

right

to try and get me to assassinate myself.

 

"So we ARE going to go after Zerstoiten. Sure, this world's going to end in a few months anyway unless I can stop it, but we

ARE

going to waste a week going after this collosal arse, and you know why?

 

"Because turning him into some mental clone of Foxbat would be funny, and I feel like a laugh."

[Amber Nytstar]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

If Luna Moth was involved, it would be have to be as one of Mindset's reformed villains. Otherwise she would not remain anywhere in the hero's vicinity if she could help it. Of course, if she had encountered Mindset, she may have also planted the initial seed of doubt, as Luna truly believes that she is helping to protect society's treasures.

 

The Flying Kittens: "No, we don't think so. But if you're getting nervous about tackling someone with his power, then why don't you build up to it. For example, we know of a couple of supervillains..."

[Trebuchet]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

There is a new superheroine in town. She goes by the name: Mindset.

 

Mindset's main power is to completely alter a villain's way of thinking. (A powerful transform).

 

Since she has started, every villain she has come up against, has either turned themselves in, turned in their costumes (and confomed to a "normal" life), or have become heroes themselves.

 

After some time she, (along with some of the reformed villains), approach you and ask if you'd be willing to help take down Dr. Destroyer (or equally powerful villain).

 

(Assuming you decide to help). Plans are made. As the final day approaches, You notice that Mindset is getting a little nervous taking out someone that powerful. When she suddenly pops off the question: "Is it wrong to FORCE someone to change their mind?"

 

WWYCD?

Since we actually have a PC mentalist, Prodigy, in our campaign who can do this (and occasionally does; albeit generally "off-camera"), this is an interesting WWYCD.

 

Zl'f is very uncomfortable with the whole idea of deliberate alteration of a person's mind - even for villains. For her, it's all too close to killing the person and leaving the body intact. (The mental equivalent of a neutron bomb, maybe?). At the very least it's equivalent to maiming that person. It may be better than killing the person outright, but that's not much of an improvement in her book. As I recall this hasn't yet actually happened in front of her, but if it appears Prodigy is going to do it at some point in the future Zl'f will probably object vociferously. Not enough to fight Prodigy or quit the team, but certainly enough to strain relations with Prodigy for some time thereafter.

 

So, to apply this to the WWYCD issue at hand, yes, Zl'f would try to stop Mindset. If she's not happy about a trusted friend and colleague performing this kind of operation, she's darn certain isn't going to let a near-stranger do it without attempting to intervene.

 

Justicar would be much more ambivalent. He's a Catholic priest, but he's also a former US Marine officer who would see it as less harmful inherently than physical attacks. As a street-level hero he's quite aware of how vulnerable humans are to physical damage. Then again, is the psychic maiming (or hobbling, if you think it's a positive thing) performed by a mentalist ethically different from the mental trauma experienced by a battered wife, torture victim, or drug addict?

 

EDIT: Besides, doesn't this rather destroy the Judeo-christian concept of free will? If you can't do evil, are you really being good? Or is just the outward appearance of good sufficient?

[Blue]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

Audra Blue: "His name is Dr. Destroyer. I'm pretty sure you're on the right track with this."

 

Anthem: "Mind controlling people into doing what you want is wrong. It's an unfortunate side effect of a free society that people are free to do the wrong thing. If we take that way you don't have utopia, you have a police state."

 

Uncle Slam: "It'll never work. Oh, it might in the short term. But these things always bounce back with twice the force you put into them. I've seen it before."

[lemming]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

Most of my characters would be actively trying to stop her well before it escalated to this scenario. Most just with advice though.

 

Calico was a deep cover operative in a villain group. When she came out from cover, no one trusted her and at one point she had a control collar put on her by her teammates.

She would of avoided Mindset despite being functionally immune to Mindsets powers, but if approached for this mission her response would be:

 

"So you're going to go up against someone who probably already knows your rep, probably has a good defense against your powers, and in all likelihood has something that will reverse your hold on the poor schlubs that you already turned. You're probably going to die a very long and painful death. If you're lucky."

[DataPacRat]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

Mike the Demoness is a secular humanist, with rationalist, neo-objectivist, and libertarian leanings. (And some of her Hunteds-of-the-week think the fact that a demon espouses atheism is proof that it's really devil-worshipping in disguise... and break out the holy-water pistols... but I digress...)

 

"My goal is to preserve and promote human, and other sentient, life, starting with my own but including everyone else's as a close second. To do that, I want to live in a country where the rule of law is enforced, as long as those laws are designed to protect the individual rights and fundamental freedoms. Where those laws fail in that task, I'll violate them if I feel I need to in order to preserve lives, and then deal with whatever the local justice system has to say about that."

 

"If a government is unable to protect its citizens, then it falls on us, the citizens, to protect ourselves, in the name of self-defense. If somebody is pointing a gun at you and threatens to shoot you, then it's within your rights to use lethal force to save your own life at the expense of his. By initiating force against you, he has demonstrated that he does not wish to live by the rules of civilized society, and thus does not deserve the protections such a society offers to those who /do/ follow its rules. If you prefer to use other methods to save lives, such as altering an attacker's mind so that they no longer pose a threat - or, even better, so that they start living by the law of the land - that's on the same moral ground."

 

"Just don't let me catch you violating any minds without permission, outside of the necessity of self-defense or the common defense of others, or else you might feel a touch of the flames of your afterlife a bit early, yourself..."

[Great Beyond]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

You know, I cant think of a character that wouldnt be opposing her LONG before this point. As for working with her - on any level - completly out of the question. Undermining someones free will like that, even the free will to do evil, makes the good guys as bad as the guys we're stopping.

 

Might as well just put a bullet in their heads. Quicker and easier that way.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

Generally agreed that most of mine would be opposing her ahead of time... at least until Destroyer's name came up in the target list... but, looking at those would *wouldn't* be:

 

Teep: One of two responses -

 

"Uhm... are you kidding? Yes, it is. That's why I'm putting so much effort into learning how to turn *off* my powers. That said, you *do* remember that we're dealing with a guy who's got a body count conservatively estimated in the millions? He's already *well* under the 'don't worry about ethics' umbrella. Now, we probably *should* stop and take a look at some of your old victims after this, but we can do that later, if we're still breathing."

 

alternately...

 

"Ah, crap, now *she's* getting my feedback too."

 

Scarface: "Is it wrong to put a teflon-coated frangible sniper round into the back of that scumbag's helmet and skull? Your call, I'm going in either way. You just decide if he gets your 'unethical' solution to the problem or mine."

 

(Assuming, of course, that *he* wasn't already one of her 'victims'....)

 

Mr. Norton Hyde: "Wrong, effective, fun, same thing. Now, shall we get to work?"

 

The trick is, if anybody would be working with her for this, they've probably already decided that it's okay in this case, if not in most others. Even those who'd oppose her would *normally* think, as Teep does, that Destroyer's somewhat beyond handling by ways that don't throw up a "but that's not right!" objection.

[hfergus]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

Volt, Olorin and Futurian would be about the same - and would try to stop it/her long before this on the grounds of A) slippery slope; where does it stop? You do not have the right C) How would you like someone overwriting you to their liking?

 

Black Tiger would have to be restained from killing her. To him, this is just about the ultimate abuse of authority.

[incrdbil]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

 

(Assuming you decide to help). Plans are made. As the final day approaches, You notice that Mindset is getting a little nervous taking out someone that powerful. When she suddenly pops off the question: "Is it wrong to FORCE someone to change their mind?"

 

WWYCD?

 

Seer would say "Of course it is. I have mental powers, and I abuse them all the time. Sure, I justify it as being for the good, but its still a violation of someone whenever we use any mental power on another. A powerful mental transformation is the most abusive thing we can do, sort of like a lifelong rape. But it hasn't stopped you before, so is this simply an ethical crisis, or are you chickening out?

 

Actually, don't bother answering, what you want doesn't matter. We're still going to do it. Not stopping him is the only thing I can think of more wrong than us living, breathing, and using our powers."

[quozaxx]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

 

 

Frosty Bob- Well a lot depends on one question........"is she hot?"

 

I loved that question. So yes she is.

 

Anywho, I was very suprised at the range of answers. From almost killing Mindset for doing it in the first place, to no - now let's take out Dr. Destroyer.

 

Maybe this should have been an opinion poll thread.

 

Quozaxx

[Wanderer]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

Nova: "I'm sorry, but I can't let you do it. Not this way. Taking temporary control of one's mind to win a fight is one thing, but changing his personality against his will is far worse than death. That's how we'll do it. We will fight Zerstoiten the honorable way, and provided we win, you can give him the choice of accepting to be stripped of his mass-murdering megalomania, or executed on the spot".

[nexus]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

Tao: Efficient and preserves a potentially useful resource (a metahuman); that said my estimation of the chances of success in this operation are low. Would you like to hear my assessment?

 

Eve: “No, it’s not. You shouldn’t make someone change their mind, it change who they are and it’s not real. My daddy could just reprogram me when I’m bad but he doesn’t because I don’t learn anything or really change if he does that. I wouldn’t be… me anymore.”

 

Ivy: Ethically, a steep dangerous slope. Where do you stop and who decides what’s “right”? A persona mind, their soul, is the most intimate part of their being and it’s not an unreasonable argument to say changing it with permission is as or more grievous harm than maiming or killing them. I can’t allow this.

 

Shidoku: Why the **** not? It’s like recycling, ha! And allot cleaner that decapitating the ***holes but you ever try that **** with me or mine and I’ll be using your skull for an ashtray, got it?”

 

Valkeyrie: Altering someone so fundamentally without their permission is the moral equivalent of murder. If you take this right on yourself then how can you argue that someone else that does it is wrong? What is sacrosanct and what’s to stop you from making more and more adjustments for your target own “good”?

[The Watcher]

Re: WWYCD: Mindset

 

Daedalus: A former supervillain, he would not appreciate it if this heroine had brain-washed any of his friends from the old days like GRAB. He'd consider that a egiegous violation of their rights and Free Will, and would use his tech to snap them out of it and capture Mindset to bring her in (I'm sure forcibly altering people's minds without consent would be against the law in most super hero universes.)

 

Quetzalcoatl: Dislikes mental manipulation of this sort since similar things have been done to him in the past to him. Would not assist in the endeavor unless the individual involved is a current and imminent threat to Thera and/or Anahuac and there was no other way to stop them.

 

Warp: "No, I'm not going to help convert Dr. Destroyer into a "good guy!" He deserves to die! Anything else would be a travesty of justice!"

 

Spectrum: "Your methods are unconstitutional and my superiors have their own plans for dealing with Destroyer. I'm going to have to bring you in now."