Goblin Kingdom

[Enforcer84]

I've decided to throw a kingdom of cultured goblins at my next fantasy hero gamers.

 

I don't have FH yet and I am dying to get it, can someone get Diamond to actually supply my LGS? THanks

 

 

anyway I wanted the initial impetus for the kingdom to be ...wine.

 

one goblin chief developed the local fruit into a very popular wine. Using the money he made from the wine turned his scavanger goblin tribe into an agricultural based society. He hired humans to guard his land and eventually, through uncanny business dealings (this was a bright goblin) got his claim to the land officially recognized.

 

Now, what else will the kingdom need to stay independany? They have one major export, but I could probably figure others out if I need them, a small standing army and a keep surrounded by a walled predominately goblinoid community.

 

anything else?

[Ron]

For your post, it appears that your Globin kingdom is a kind of small one. As such, he will need political support from more powerful states to keep independent. Perhaps, the kingdom could be a vassal state of a larger nation, with some independence of their own -- globins might be considered second class citzens among human nations and thus the big kingdom saw no advantages in incorporating it.

[OddHat]

Depends on how your world works, and how goblins work.

 

If they were human they'd need sufficient farmland to keep them all fed, maybe a source of animal protein (lakes, rivers and harbors work well), some livestock, a source of weapons, ore if they have their own smiths...an agricultural or other food surplus always makes for a good source of trade in any pre-industrial society. Wine is a luxury good, and it can generate a fair amount of cash, but they'll need more if your world doesn't have very well established, reliable and guarded trade routes. Land and sea trade routes in general will be important.

 

Magic is another issue. If there are mages around, the goblins will need witches and shamans. If the goblins are as fast breeding as AD&Desque goblins, they'll have quite a population problem fairly quickly. COuld make for a good adventure hook.

 

Bands of predatory human "heroes" breaking into the homes of respectable goblin tradesman, killing them and taking their stuff would make for a great adventure hook. Title: "Who will think of the goblins?"

 

GURPS goblins has a very funny and bizare semi-victorian London world setting for a goblin society. You might be able to steal some ideas from it.

[Roland]

An agricultural economy cannot rely on a single crop - a bad year would leave everyone without a safety net. Perhaps they also grow subsistence crops for their own use. Combinations of grains and legumes make for a good crop rotation scheme and an adequate diet. Alternatively, once their trade routes and trading partners are established for the wine trade, they could take advantage of this network to market other goblin products to humans. Perhaps traditional goblin arts and crafts amuse wealthy humans. Or human children take a liking to a goblin-made toy. (Hmmm . . . Cabbage Patch Kids look kinda goblin-esque.)

 

Unless the goblins can mount a credible military defense, they will need another strategy to avoid being annexed by a neighboring human kingdom. Perhaps you can set it up so that, for some reason, conquering the goblins would be more trouble than it's worth. The easy way is to make the goblins too poor and disorganized to bother with, but that would contradict your premise. Perhaps the goblins live comfortably in a geography that is not suited to humans. Or their main subsistence crop is unpalatable to humans, who are therefore not tempted to raid or tax the goblins.

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Roland

Unless the goblins can mount a credible military defense, they will need another strategy to avoid being annexed by a neighboring human kingdom. Perhaps you can set it up so that, for some reason, conquering the goblins would be more trouble than it's worth. The easy way is to make the goblins too poor and disorganized to bother with, but that would contradict your premise. Perhaps the goblins live comfortably in a geography that is not suited to humans. Or their main subsistence crop is unpalatable to humans, who are therefore not tempted to raid or tax the goblins.

Maybe the terrain is chock-full of toxic (to humans) plants that goblins grow, live on, and can use for nasty poisons. It would simultaneously be goblin-esque ("They eat WHAT?!"), account for no humans in the area, make the place undesireable to conquer, make it dangerous to garrison (rebel weapons are literally growing on trees), and give them a military advantage - extensive use of poisoned weapons. It's also a nicely defensive one - the poisons would be hard to replenish on campaigns away from home, so there's less reason to launch a preemptive strike just because they're dangerous.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Goblin Kingdom

 

Originally posted by Enforcer84

I don't have FH yet and I am dying to get it, can someone get Diamond to actually supply my LGS? THanks

 

Good luck! My store gave up on Diamond and orders through other distributors for Hero, and a lot of other RPG, products.

 

Maybe someone at the other end of the chain (ie the guys collecting money when the sales flow through) should follow up on Diamond's delivery.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Ron

For your post, it appears that your Globin kingdom is a kind of small one. As such, he will need political support from more powerful states to keep independent. Perhaps, the kingdom could be a vassal state of a larger nation, with some independence of their own -- globins might be considered second class citzens among human nations and thus the big kingdom saw no advantages in incorporating it.

 

How about if the Goblin King is supremely crafty and expert at playing neighboring kingdoms against each other? Sort of like a Goblin North Korea. Then the goblin kingdom could also be a kind of free trade neutral zone where all the merchants come, and the goblins would get fat off the protection money.

[eepjr24]

Isle of Goblins?

 

The natural defenses of an island might help too. Say that they have made deals to appease the local sea hazard (kraken, mer-folk, saughin, giant squid colony) and thus most other sailors will not even go near their island. This also gives them shipping, which is an alternate form of revenue, although you have to be a little desparate to ship with a goblin crew so they are not competing with the big guys, and pirates don't bother them much because of the low cargo values.

 

- Ernie

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Goblin Kingdom

 

Originally posted by Enforcer84

I don't have FH yet and I am dying to get it, can someone get Diamond to actually supply my LGS? THanks

 

Diamond stocks very little RPG stuff. If you want a book through them, you need to order it when it comes up in Previews (usually about 2 months prior to release). If you wait until after, they don't usuall have it. I tried to get the Spacers Toolkit 2 weeks after the previews was out (about 2 months before release) and we were only able to get one.

Diamond and Alliance are under the same company umbrella - so most companies that have a diamond account have an alliance one as well.

Alliance is not the best distrubitor, but much better than diamond for HERO stuff.

[RadeFox]

Heres an idea I used in a AD&D game a long time ago. Might give you some ideas.

 

I had the PC party transported at some point to an alternate world, which in reality was the Green moon of their own world. (I dont think they ever figured that out, though. ) Things on the moon were mirrored with regards to racial alignments from the planet.

 

Hence Orc, were a LG culture, heavily steeped in a fuedal japanese warrior society, where it was a warriors duty to protect and serve his people. They were the one of the dominant nations. Their chief enemies were the very vile Elven Empire (Neutral Evil with the empahsis on EVIL), and the the barbaric and rampaging Dwarven Lords (Chaotic Evil) who sallied forth from their mountain strongholds to pillage and terroirize the lands all around.

 

The wildcards were the scattered human tribes. Scattered about, no two were alike (each of them was a strong alignment (LG,CG,LE,CE, NG, NE,LN,CN) Not a single tribe was nuetral. They each had varied and diverse moral beliefs, and while mosly a celtic level barbaric people, where very much driven by the preaching of the druids of their particular order.

 

It was a great time for many sessions, the first few being the absolute best, because they encountered the elves first, who tricked them into going after some orcish lords. It took more then a few skirmishes before the treachery became clear. Boy, where the players hot!! But they all had a great time getting even!

[Enforcer84]

I think the Goblin Kingdom is going to be by a river on one side and mountains on the other. THe main cash crop is the wine, but they have made a deal with some druids whose forest is on the other side of the river to help them with agriculture if the goblins would take care of some smaller tribes of Goblins in the forrest who are troublesome. The king simply annexes the smaller tribes as workers/warriors for his army.

 

As for the other races, there are few of the other goblinoid races here, they mostly inhabit the other side of the mountains, these goblins ran from tyranny long ago (they were already different from their bretheren). Human settlements include the now almost freindly druids (about 50-70). A trade city at the base of the moutains, where the river branches. These are the leaders who made the deals for the wine; they had traded for what the goblins had scavenged before as a way of keeping tensions down. The Trade City sees the fact that the goblins are no longer attacking travelers as a good sign and are willing to work with the King as long as he can control them. In fact the guilds of the Trade City have sent a few mercenary companies to help the king defend and train his troops.

 

The goblin king is determined to start some mines in the mountains and thus is trying to have some of his men trained in this regard. He is very intelligent and charaismatic. He is planning for the future of his kingdom, his three sons are all being trained in either War, Commerse, or Diplomacy. He is still young and healthy (his boys are very young yet) and he wants to have a legacy.

[Shaddakim]

Perhaps a combination of hard to reach location, inedible/poisonous plants, and political patronage would be a good way to avoid being conquered, at least for a while.

 

This all reminds me of what one of my history professors called "the beer theory of civilization" - civilization started because of beer and the desire to make more. At some point, the Hell's Angels (in the form of the Hittites or another goblin tribe) will ride down upon the goblins and try and take over. Perhaps the players are contacted to help defend the goblin lands (ala Seven Samurai/The Magnificent Seven). Perhaps the players will be the ones riding down upon the goblins to take over - depends on the players.

 

Another option would be the big kingdom next door is sending a governor who needs body guards and the players are hire to guard the Governor. If the Governor is a rat-bastard and runs roughshod over the goblins using the players (and other bodyguards) as muscle, eventually the players will have to decide whether or not to support a righteous goblin uprising or help put it down at the command of an oppresive human government.

[Captain Obvious]

Seems to me that the goblin population problem and the question of independence work to cancel each other out. The goblins have such a massive manpower (goblinpower?) pool that no army can defeat them. Maybe have a neighbor or two who is unreservedly jealous of the goblins' vineyards, so there is constant raiding and warfare going on, to keep the goblins' population down. Any excess goblins are used as caravan guards to keep their wine safe from bandits while it's on its way to market.

[The Mad GM]

An odd twist would be if the wine was slowly poisonous to the goblins, keeps the population down, and export volumes up. Tee-totalers would point to the broken families, social problems of addicition, etc. But the powers that be would be hushing it up. Sort of like tobacco in the fifties and sixties.

[Trencher]

Give them guns!

[The Mad GM]

Give them guns!

 

Perhaps the wine is a by-product of an attempt to distill greek fire. That might give them a military edge.

[Old Man]

Just because you said it was wine doesn't mean it really has to be wine. Meaning that the intoxicating beverage could be distilled from fungi - no vulnerable above ground fields.

 

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The defences of the goblin kingdom could be a combination of above and below ground fortifications.

 

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The goblin king is highly intelligent you said, so he was the only goblin to discover a waste product of their normal food consumption is quite intoxicating for most other races. The unique flavor is due to certain plants/animals/fungi only found in that region. The beverage is gaining popularity but rumors are getting out.

 

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The kingdom could be located on the boarder between two powerful rival nations. Read Steven Brust's Phoenix Guards for a good example.

 

The rival nations want total control of the wine resource but fighting in the area would ruin the fields. The players must stop both armies from clashing while maintaining the goblins' independance.

 

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The island idea is good. Maybe the drink is made from distilled fish filtered through living coral?

 

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[BlackSword]

Re: Goblin Kingdom

 

Originally posted by Enforcer84

anyway I wanted the initial impetus for the kingdom to be ...wine.

 

one goblin chief developed the local fruit into a very popular wine. Using the money he made from the wine turned his scavanger goblin tribe into an agricultural based society. He hired humans to guard his land and eventually, through uncanny business dealings (this was a bright goblin) got his claim to the land officially recognized.

Shadowpup began some points I was thinking about driving home from work (hey, its better than screaming curse words at drivers who will never hear them). Basically what makes the wine unique to the region the goblins inhabit and how do they keep others from stealing it? Depending on the side the characters are on (stealing or protecting it) this could lead to some interesting issues. Some real-world considerations:

-Seeds of plant need special fungus in the soil in order to germinate (found in some types of orchids)

-Special yeast in the air, this is found in some of the lambic beers produced in belgium

-Particular composition of the soil gives the fermented juice a unique(and delightful) flavor

-Plant unique to region, but can grow elsewhere (this requires a more active protection of the fields)

For the first three examples the characters will need some alchemical skills in order to determine what the unique ingrediant is.

 

As for protection the goblin kingdom can be placed between two kingdoms which don't want their neighbor to change its borders so in a peace treaty neither side can occupy the goblin kingdom without invoking war. The players can try to force on side to start the war so their allied kingdom does not appear the aggressor but is able to take control of the goblin kingdom for its own safety(and profit to the king from wine sales). Alternatively the characters can stop the war.

[AnotherSkip]

maybe there is an active ingredient in the Goblins uhmmmmmmmm intrinsic manure?

 

that would throw people for a loop if that got out.

[dbsousa]

If this goblin were super crafty, he might set up his kingdom as a serfdom, with a human government composed of figureheads. The Goblin King is believed to be the Head Servant, but in fact dicates the decisions of the Duke directly.

The wine is physically addictive, and has a narcotic effect that tends to make humans suggestible, When served throughout the kingdom will make the Goblin overthrow as simple as installing Goblin wine stewards in every household.

[bjbrown]

Along the lines of "it's more trouble than it's worth," neighboring human nations might prefer to have one strong goblin king keeping the goblins in check and in one place, rather than breaking up that kingdom to have the goblins scatter out for their normal parasitic random harassment of human lands.

If the goblins have a high birth rate, then it seems they have a second exportable good- catapult fodder. The goblin king could pledge goblin "soldiers" to neighboring lands to serve as expendable scouts and front-line buffers, in exchange for the goblin kingdom being left alone. The goblin king could even sell goblins as slaves- after all, he only needs enough goblins to keep his wine operation going. Excess goblins are just a drain.

[The Mad GM]

Frankly there have been a number of posts as to why strong kingdoms around it might not want to invade. Nations might also have a great number of different reasons. Make it the center of trade routes to several kingdoms, and use all of the reasons.

 

Nation One: It's better to keep all the goblins under one chieftan

 

Nation Two and Three: Their treaty states that occupying that land is an act of war

 

Nation Four: Secretly controlled by Goblin King and his addictive wine

 

Nation Five: Can't possibly match the sheer numbers of goblins, and afraid of native goblin uprising in case of war.

 

Nation Six: Wants the wine, knows that it can't be grown anywhere else and doesn't want to destroy the crop.

 

The Goblinate Realm could literally be a great crossroads of conflicting forces and intrigue.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by The Mad GM

Nation Two and Three: Their treaty states that occupying that land is an act of war

 

Tie together enough treaties and alliances with other nations, and simple entry to the Goblin Lands could start a world war. [Which is basically how we got WW I] You can use the goblins as long as you want and, if you decide to ditch them, the campaign moves to a whole new structure as the world goes to war.

[Roland]

Originally posted by AnotherSkip

maybe there is an active ingredient in the Goblins uhmmmmmmmm intrinsic manure?

 

that would throw people for a loop if that got out.

 

This reminds me of the Chinese movie, "Red Sorghum." A clan member who was drunk and upset tried to ruin the year's batch of new sorghum wine by urinating in it. Everyone was quite surprised when, after a few months, they opened a vat and it turned out to be quite tasty.

[gewing]

I thought I was the only one who saw that movie!

 

I had actually forgotten that bit, I was the projectionist for it at the UW many years ago. I missed some parts due to working the mechanisms.

 

 

Originally posted by Roland

This reminds me of the Chinese movie, "Red Sorghum." A clan member who was drunk and upset tried to ruin the year's batch of new sorghum wine by urinating in it. Everyone was quite surprised when, after a few months, they opened a vat and it turned out to be quite tasty.