Does this work in 6e?

[tgaptte]

Steal Inertia

Dispel Knockback Resistance 12d6

Does Knockback (+1/4)

Double Knockback (+1/2)

(63 Active Points)

 

So...you dispel their knockback resistance and then get an average of 24 body for purposes of determining knockback...

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Sure, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be.

[tgaptte]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Sure' date=' I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be. [/quote']

 

Thanks Derek. Shouldn't you be in bed?

 

It just seems too powerful somehow...that's a TON of knockback and may break a 60 AP campaign damage limit (24 Body - 7 roll=17d6 average damage) if knocked back into the appropriate upright object (vault door anyone?)

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

That's why many people use DC caps as well as or instead of simple point caps. It might fit in a 60 AP game, but it doesn't fit in a 12 DC game.

[JmOz]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Well it is a 63 Active point power, and 12.5 or 13 DC, so If I had either caps I would say NO, but then I am very particular about the rules I put in effect, if I say it is a 60 point cap then it is a 60 point cap...no exception (However I tend to use guidelines instead of Caps)

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

While I generally don't include Knockback in my calculations, if it does an average of 17d6 from KB (and it could do more) I would think about considering it more than a 12 DC power. Since the power is obviously built to cause damage in that way I'd almost look more at the KB than I would at the base Power and call it a 17 DC power.

Also, I don't have 6e yet; does Dispel work the same as in 5e? If it does, couldn't you just keep feeding it END as long as the first attack hit and have them take that much KB on each of your phases? I'm always wary of Dispel.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Would this sort of attack work against characters using Density Increase's inherent knockback resistance, or only versus characters with the Power Knockback Resistance (and of course those with none at all)?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Thanks Derek. Shouldn't you be in bed?

 

It just seems too powerful somehow...that's a TON of knockback and may break a 60 AP campaign damage limit (24 Body - 7 roll=17d6 average damage) if knocked back into the appropriate upright object (vault door anyone?)

 

I think there's a ruling out there that, if you don't have the ability to be affected by the power, the knockback also fails. That would mean this ability only works against targets who have knockback resistance.

[Zephrosyne]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Ok, I don't get it. What the hell is this power supposed to do?

[Grailknight]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

It's legal but I don't think it gets the benefit of the removed KB resistance. Just like draining a defense the attack has to go against the full defense and then subsequent attacks go against the lowered defense. Would still do the knockback of a 12d attack and for the rest of the segment the target has no kb resistance to any other attackers.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Ok' date=' I don't get it. What the hell is this power supposed to do?[/quote']

 

Throw people a very long distance.

[The Main Man]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Also' date=' I don't have 6e yet; does Dispel work the same as in 5e? If it does, couldn't you just keep feeding it END as long as the first attack hit and have them take that much KB on each of your phases? I'm always wary of Dispel.[/quote']

 

You're thinking of Suppress, which is now Drain with the Costs END to Maintain (-1/2) Limitation.Dispel is "fire and forget," but since KB Resistance is Persistent (unless it's from Growth or Density Increase), I'm not so sure about how useful this ability would be.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Right. I agree with both of the points about the defense applying before it is adjusted and using Drain instead of Dispel (while you could use Dispel, and it would turn off the power completely until the target can re-activate it if you manage to surpass the entire Active Points, I suspect Drain is probably more what you're going for). Also, note that KBR gained from Growth or Density Increase would NOT be adjusted by this power. You'd have to actually Dispel/Drain Growth and/or Density Increase separately or simultaneously (though I think you could add a Limitation that restricts it to only the KBR portion of the Growth/DI).

 

All in all, I suspect you're probably better off with a Blast that does Double Knockback, possibly limited to doing Knockback Only or something. That's really the intended way to pull off this kind of thing in the system. That or maybe TK used to perform Throws.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Steal Inertia

Dispel Knockback Resistance 12d6

Does Knockback (+1/4)

Double Knockback (+1/2)

(63 Active Points)

 

So...you dispel their knockback resistance and then get an average of 24 body for purposes of determining knockback...

 

I really like the build. Like others here, I might require a player to tone it down a bit, but I really like it.

 

I'm curious:

 

Is this something that's going to be used in conjunction with some other power, or is this something like a "Force Push?"

 

still-- well done!

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

You're thinking of Suppress' date=' which is now Drain with the Costs END to Maintain (-1/2) Limitation.Dispel is "fire and forget," but since KB Resistance is Persistent (unless it's from Growth or Density Increase), I'm not so sure about how useful this ability would be.[/quote']

DOH! Thank you. I really need to pay more attention to what I post in the middle of the night at work.

[Tasha]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

I really like the build. Like others here, I might require a player to tone it down a bit, but I really like it.

 

I'm curious:

 

Is this something that's going to be used in conjunction with some other power, or is this something like a "Force Push?"

 

still-- well done!

 

It's a kind of "Force Push". He used it last night in my inaugural 6e game. My feeling was that it was potentially too powerful for my DC12 game. (the initial use pushed the badguy back 44m) Though I might allow it at that level as a final strike, difficult to use power (ie having extra time, Requires a Roll, and/or Extra end)

 

Tasha

[tgaptte]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Well it is a 63 Active point power' date=' and 12.5 or 13 DC, so If I had either caps I would say NO, but then I am very particular about the rules I put in effect, if I say it is a 60 point cap then it is a 60 point cap...no exception (However I tend to use guidelines instead of Caps)[/quote']

 

Would this build be completely ok in a 60AP game? My point wasn't that it was 3 points over the 60AP limit, but that the build, by its very nature, was possibly game-breaking.

 

Transfer Inertia

Dispel Knockback Resistance 11d6

Does Knockback (+1/4)

Double Knockback (+1/2)

(58 Active Points)

 

Now we're under the 60AP limit and still capable of doing 15d6 damage in a 12d6 game...

[tgaptte]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

The game we're currently playing is to "get our feet wet" with 6e, so I wanted to try a bunch of different things to see how they played out in game. This power was one of them. I warned the GM ahead of time that it was potentially broken and would happily to make changes as needed.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

You could do something like this:

 

Force Push: Flight, 24 meters Usable As Attack; Horizontal Movement Only; Roll 4D6 to determine actual meters Target is Pushed.

[tgaptte]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Would this sort of attack work against characters using Density Increase's inherent knockback resistance' date=' or only versus characters with the Power[i'] Knockback Resistance[/i] (and of course those with none at all)?

 

My thinking was that if they didn't have KNB resistance, this power would not work. I suppose I could add "Expanded Effect" to cover KNB resistance from DI and Growth.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

It's a kind of "Force Push". He used it last night in my inaugural 6e game. My feeling was that it was potentially too powerful for my DC12 game. (the initial use pushed the badguy back 44m) Though I might allow it at that level as a final strike, difficult to use power (ie having extra time, Requires a Roll, and/or Extra end)

 

Tasha

 

 

Thanks!

 

One more question, and I'll leave you be about it:

 

the way it's built, it seems to be "powered" (for lack of a better word) by the drain. That being the case, is he getting more dice of knockback than he is "earning" via the drain?

 

I can see that being a deal-breaker, certainly.

 

And as-presented, it seems to be useful only against characters with knockback resistance.

[tgaptte]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

It's a kind of "Force Push". He used it last night in my inaugural 6e game. My feeling was that it was potentially too powerful for my DC12 game. (the initial use pushed the badguy back 44m) Though I might allow it at that level as a final strike, difficult to use power (ie having extra time, Requires a Roll, and/or Extra end)

 

Tasha

 

Fortunately the speedster who was down the hallway and nearly guaranteed to be clocked by the propelled baddie was fast enough to "excite her molecules" (read: abort) to such a degree that the villain passed harmlessly through her...that doesn't mean she was happy with me for flinging him that way...

[tgaptte]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

Thanks!

 

One more question, and I'll leave you be about it:

 

the way it's built, it seems to be "powered" (for lack of a better word) by the drain. That being the case, is he getting more dice of knockback than he is "earning" via the drain?

 

I can see that being a deal-breaker, certainly.

 

And as-presented, it seems to be useful only against characters with knockback resistance.

 

>>>

the way it's built, it seems to be "powered" (for lack of a better word) by the drain. That being the case, is he getting more dice of knockback than he is "earning" via the drain?

<<<

My thinking was that the Dispel "effect" is what's rolled on the dice, and that's what's used for purposes of knockback. It shouldn't matter how much KNB resistance they have, just as it doesn't matter how much body a target has when calculating how much body your Blast attack does.

 

>>>

And as-presented, it seems to be useful only against characters with knockback resistance

<<<

Yes, that was the idea. See my post above about adding "Expanded Effect" to cover Growth and DI.

[tgaptte]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

You could do something like this:

 

Force Push: Flight, 24 meters Usable As Attack; Horizontal Movement Only; Roll 4D6 to determine actual meters Target is Pushed.

 

Ah cool! New rules for using a movement power as an attack? I'll have to go read those, thanks GA.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Does this work in 6e?

 

The 5th ed FAQ states that it doesn't work on people who have no KBR and against people who do, the KBR is dispelled before the KB is applied (assuming that the dispel dice exceed the KBR points and when is that not going to happen...)

 

I'm guessing that when the 6th ed FAQ gets compiled, the same mechanics will apply...

 

I've used it before (with a cone explosion to boot) and, yeah, it's just loaded with hi-grade cheese.