Because I Must!

[Supreme]

I was just having an interesting e-conversation with a friend of mine about motivations for super-heroes. He said that there are five classic reasons why someone uses their powers for good:

• Idealistic (Superman, most Golden-Age Characters)
  
• Avenging/atoning for a personal tragedy (Batman, Spider-Man)
  
• Inherits heroic "mantle" (Silver Age Green Lantern, Buffy)
  
• Thrill-Seeker (Booster Gold)
  
• Reluctant/Shoved into it (Cyborg, Hulk)
  

I added:

• Apprentice/Inspired by another hero (Robin, 2nd Nite-Owl)
  

Your thoughts?

[JSenecal]

Most of my heroes would fit one of those catagories. A couple that don't would be:

 

Built to be a hero (for artifical beings)

 

For acceptance

 

For living heroes, the first could be (Trained from birth to be a hero, and never questioned it)

 

The last is for characters who either can't live a normal life, or have dificulty doing so.

 

One of the characaters I've had that fit in this last catagory was a self made robot (acidental AI) who decided that was the best way to be accepted by the general populace (it wasn't a cute robot).

 

The other was a normal looking brick, whose limited sense of touch made physical contact with normal humans dangerous. As a hero, she didn't have to be keep her distance at all times. She could have friends again! (going public with her powers would have done the same thing).

[Acroyear]

I think I'd only add Redemption, but you might be able to call that "avenging a personal tragedy" which was just self-made (Plastic Man, Wonder Man)

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Supreme

I was just having an interesting e-conversation with a friend of mine about motivations for super-heroes. He said that there are five classic reasons why someone uses their powers for good

{snip}

Your thoughts?

I use a spectrum of 10 motivations. The first three apply virtually exclusively to heroes, the middle four can apply to either heroes or villains, and the last three apply virtually exclusively to villains.

• Upholds Good: This character is a hero because it's The Right Thing To Do. They are deeply concerned about their fellow man, and will do everything in their power to promote the common good, preserve order, and generally make the world a better place. They almost always work within the law, because they feel lawlessness breeds its own problems. Even if they didn't have superpowers, this character would do everything they could to "fight the good fight."
  Example: Superman
   
  
• Responsibility of Power: With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility, and this character knows it. Similar in some ways to a character that Upholds Good, the primary difference between them is that a character with Responsibility of Power would be more like a normal person -- less idealistic and more flawed than an Upholder of Good -- if their powers hadn't thrust upon them the choice of how those powers would be used. Having chosen to use them responsibly, they now must do the best they can to balance their commitment with their need for a "normal life."
  Example: Spider-Man
   
  
• Seeks Justice: This character feels that, whether the system is up to it or not, whoever stands in their way, by whatever means necessary, Evil Must Be Punished. Frequently, these characters are vigilantes because their pursuit of wrongdoers that the system has missed forces them over the lines of legality. Some of these driven, often grim, heroes draw the line at killing ... others do not.
  Example: Batman
   
  
• Thrill of Adventure: This character is in the supers game (on whichever side) for the sheer Thrill of Adventure. This may mean the exhilaration and danger of superpowered fighting, or the more cerebral challenge of matching wits with a brilliant enemy.
  Example: Mr. Mxyzptlk
   
  
• Works For A Goal: This character is involved in superdom almost incidentally while pursuing a particular objective. This is usually something specific, such as trying to find something or trying to get somewhere. However, Works For A Goal can also be used for characters whose "goal" is to follow the orders and/or precepts of an organization such as an army or a superagency (like VIPER or U.N.T.I.L.).
  Example: The Hulk (Banner is seeking a cure.)
   
  
• Personal Gain: This character dons the cape-n-tights to gain some personal reward. Most often, this is simply money, or perhaps fame. But other "rewards" are possible, such as respect or companionship. Personal Gain is, of course, very common among greed-driven villains. It also makes a good "catch-all" for characters who don't seem to fit another Motivation. Almost any personal reason for supering could conceivably be called Personal Gain.
  Example: The Penguin
   
  
• Wants Revenge: This character is out to avenge a wrong done to him or his -- usually by some opposing character or group. They won't rest until vengeance has been exacted. For campaign purposes, it's best if the target of their vengeance is either so powerful that vengeance will be very difficult to achieve, or so amorphous (like a large agency) that the fight can go on and on without ever actually destroying the group. Otherwise, the character could be left in mid-campaign without a reason to continue. (Of course, this might make an interesting campaign plot twist in and of itself...) Not surprisingly, this is a more common Motivation for villains.
  Example: Silver Age Lex Luthor (Sought revenge against Superman for making him bald.)
   
  
• Power Lust: This character intends to take control. Of whatever he can get. It may be military power, political power, economic power, or some combination. But whatever the case, they plan to be the one calling the shots. This thirst can spring from chortling megalomania or from a genuine belief that their rule would be better for all. Regardless, they want everyone dancing to their tune eventually...
  Example: Doctor Doom
   
  
• Psychopath: This character is dangerously and horribly insane. Unpredictable and frequently brilliant, these characters can make the most deliciously disturbing villains. Most characters described as "pure evil" would be Psychopaths.
  Example: The Joker
   
  
• Nihilist: This character wallows in death and destruction. Placing no value on their own life, their goal is simply to cause as much obliteration of everything as possible. They may hate humanity for some reason, or their ultimate motive may be more obscure. This Motivation is fairly rare, but when it does appear it can result in some extremely dangerous high-stakes adventures.
  Example: Doomsday
  

[Storn]

I add "blackmailed."

 

I've done this a few times, "you work for us or.... its Stronghold, soap on a rope and Grond in the shower."

 

Note: I've done this after talking it over with players. I would not do this just because I felt so.

 

It is an amazing motivator though....

[Guest cubist]

Thanks alot Storn, now I'm going to have to find what part of my brain holds that mental image and scoop it out with a spoon

[Crimson-Hawk]

Originally posted by cubist

Thanks alot Storn, now I'm going to have to find what part of my brain holds that mental image and scoop it out with a spoon

 

Bwahaha!

 

Thanks for the inspiration, Storn!

 

I'm adding another category...

 

Sadism: A hero/villain (most likely villain) who is motivated by sadism to use their powers simply like to see others squirm. It may not necessarily by a Lust For Power, although the thrill of control over another often does motivate a Sadist. However, the character is not so much interested in controlling others for controlling's sake as they are morbidly interested in the effects that pain (be it physical or psychological) has on others.

Example: Storn Cook, as a GM.

[Darren Watts]

As the great philosopher Ambush Bug pointed out, there are only two types of villains: those that say "Bah!" and those that don't say "Bah!" dw

[JmOz]

DC Heroes

 

Derik, I see you were a fan of the old DC HEeroes game (However where is Unwanted Power?)

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: DC Heroes

 

Originally posted by JmOz

Derek, I see you were a fan of the old DC HEeroes game (However where is Unwanted Power?)

Well, those aren't ALL from DC Heroes.

 

I don't really see Unwanted Power as a separate motivation. I think characters that seem to have that could be classified under other motivations, depending on how they reacted to having power thrust upon them. Some would easily go to Responsibility of Power, others might seek to rid themselves of their power, which would fall under Works For A Goal, and still others might just try to gain acceptance, which could be Personal Gain.

 

To me, Unwanted Power is more of an origin type than a motivation.

[MilkmanDan]

Originally posted by cubist

Thanks alot Storn, now I'm going to have to find what part of my brain holds that mental image and scoop it out with a spoon

 

I'm suddenly thinking of the essay "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" with a VERY different point of view.

[MilkmanDan]

Originally posted by cubist

Thanks alot Storn, now I'm going to have to find what part of my brain holds that mental image and scoop it out with a spoon

 

I'm suddenly thinking of the essay "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" with a VERY different point of view.

[Redhead.xls]

In the name of Love. It's a classic.

[David Blue]

Re: Because I Must!

 

I was just having an interesting e-conversation with a friend of mine about motivations for super-heroes. He said that there are five classic reasons why someone uses their powers for good:

• Idealistic (Superman, most Golden-Age Characters)
  
• Avenging/atoning for a personal tragedy (Batman, Spider-Man)
  
• Inherits heroic "mantle" (Silver Age Green Lantern, Buffy)
  
• Thrill-Seeker (Booster Gold)
  
• Reluctant/Shoved into it (Cyborg, Hulk)
  

I added:

• Apprentice/Inspired by another hero (Robin, 2nd Nite-Owl)
  

Your thoughts?

 

The Incredibles is a great superhero movie, full of classic characters, so I'll apply the scheme to that.

 

* Idealistic: Frozone: "the greater good"

* Avenging/atoning for a personal tragedy: No hero, but Oliver Sansweet "You ruined my death!"

* Inherits heroic "mantle" (Silver Age Green Lantern, Buffy): maybe nobody, maybe Violet, possibly Jack-Jack, but it's too soon to say.

* Thrill-Seeker: Elastigirl "up there with the big dogs" the Dash (obvious love of speed and fun), Edna Mode (truly loves her work).

* Reluctant/Shoved into it: Mrs. Incredible, who'd rather just be a wife and mother.

* Apprentice/Inspired by another hero: Incrediboy.

 

Leaving Mister Incredible, whose motives are in question. (With Mrs. Incredible consistently defining his motives in ways that boil down to accusing him of selfishness, and Mr. Incredible not denying it but acting quite differently when we see him in action).

 

Mister Incredible seems not to fit any classification scheme. Rather he embodies the title of the thread: "Because I must!"

[Wanderer]

Re: Because I Must!

 

I use a spectrum of 10 motivations. The first three apply virtually exclusively to heroes' date=' the middle four can apply to either heroes or villains, and the last three apply virtually exclusively to villains.[list'][*]Upholds Good: This character is a hero because it’s The Right Thing To Do. They are deeply concerned about their fellow man, and will do everything in their power to promote the common good, preserve order, and generally make the world a better place. They almost always work within the law, because they feel lawlessness breeds its own problems. Even if they didn’t have superpowers, this character would do everything they could to "fight the good fight."

Example: Superman

 

[*]Responsibility of Power: With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility, and this character knows it. Similar in some ways to a character that Upholds Good, the primary difference between them is that a character with Responsibility of Power would be more like a normal person -- less idealistic and more flawed than an Upholder of Good -- if their powers hadn’t thrust upon them the choice of how those powers would be used. Having chosen to use them responsibly, they now must do the best they can to balance their commitment with their need for a "normal life."

Example: Spider-Man

 

[*]Seeks Justice: This character feels that, whether the system is up to it or not, whoever stands in their way, by whatever means necessary, Evil Must Be Punished. Frequently, these characters are vigilantes because their pursuit of wrongdoers that the system has missed forces them over the lines of legality. Some of these driven, often grim, heroes draw the line at killing ... others do not.

Example: Batman

 

[*]Thrill of Adventure: This character is in the supers game (on whichever side) for the sheer Thrill of Adventure. This may mean the exhilaration and danger of superpowered fighting, or the more cerebral challenge of matching wits with a brilliant enemy.

Example: Mr. Mxyzptlk

 

[*]Works For A Goal: This character is involved in superdom almost incidentally while pursuing a particular objective. This is usually something specific, such as trying to find something or trying to get somewhere. However, Works For A Goal can also be used for characters whose "goal" is to follow the orders and/or precepts of an organization such as an army or a superagency (like VIPER or U.N.T.I.L.).

Example: The Hulk (Banner is seeking a cure.)

 

[*]Personal Gain: This character dons the cape n’ tights to gain some personal reward. Most often, this is simply money, or perhaps fame. But other "rewards" are possible, such as respect or companionship. Personal Gain is, of course, very common among greed-driven villains. It also makes a good "catch-all" for characters who don’t seem to fit another Motivation. Almost any personal reason for supering could conceivably be called Personal Gain.

Example: The Penguin

 

[*]Wants Revenge: This character is out to avenge a wrong done to him or his -- usually by some opposing character or group. They won’t rest until vengeance has been exacted. For campaign purposes, it’s best if the target of their vengeance is either so powerful that vengeance will be very difficult to achieve, or so amorphous (like a large agency) that the fight can go on and on without ever actually destroying the group. Otherwise, the character could be left in mid-campaign without a reason to continue. (Of course, this might make an interesting campaign plot twist in and of itself...) Not surprisingly, this is a more common Motivation for villains.

Example: Silver Age Lex Luthor (Sought revenge against Superman for making him bald.)

 

[*]Power Lust: This character intends to take control. Of whatever he can get. It may be military power, political power, economic power, or some combination. But whatever the case, they plan to be the one calling the shots. This thirst can spring from chortling megalomania or from a genuine belief that their rule would be better for all. Regardless, they want everyone dancing to their tune eventually...

Example: Doctor Doom

 

[*]Psychopath: This character is dangerously and horribly insane. Unpredictable and frequently brilliant, these characters can make the most deliciously disturbing villains. Most characters described as "pure evil" would be Psychopaths.

Example: The Joker

 

[*]Nihilist: This character wallows in death and destruction. Placing no value on their own life, their goal is simply to cause as much obliteration of everything as possible. They may hate humanity for some reason, or their ultimate motive may be more obscure. This Motivation is fairly rare, but when it does appear it can result in some extremely dangerous high-stakes adventures.

Example: Doomsday

 

 

A fine listing, however I'd add a couple more:

 

Noblesse oblige Often hailing from an exotic background that gives him superpowers, such as mythological godlike figure, member of hyper-evoluted subrace, or interstellar police corps, such an hero comes to Earth either as part of an ongoing mission or out of fascination with humanity. It generally follows a code of honor or duty linked to its own exotic origin, and it undergoes the superhero career because it feels this is the best way of fulfilling these committments on Earth. Alternatively, it may be a human who has been exceptionally endowed by fate (e.g. having superhuman intelligence), and feels that heroism is the only proper way of giving something back for the gifts he has received. In many ways, it is similar to upholds the good, and responsibility of power, but it differentiates because the hero feels less of a committment to follow human laws and codes (his dedication goes to his personal code, fiorst and foremost), and isn't so much as a normal person entrusted with supoerhuman power, as the other way around: a born godlike figure that tries to understand humanity.

 

Thor, Hercules, the Eternals, Wonder Woman, Iron Man.

 

The Crusader Idealistic to a fault, such a person had a deep-rooted committment to a cause or ideal, and when fate gave him superpowers, or he successfully quested for them, he realized they were the best tool ever to pursue his personal crusade. Depending on whatever his personal cause may be (e.g.: environmentalism, patriotism, protection of superhumankind), and the means he is willing to employ, such a character may be a law-abiding hero that thries to endorse the cause by example, a vigilante antihero that puts the cause first and laws second, yet still tries to do more good than harm in the end, or an amoral fanatic that won't blink to atrocities as long as the cause it is advanced.

 

The Authority, Magneto, Ultimate Thor, Prof. Xavier, Cap. America.

[Doppler]

Re: Because I Must!

 

My list:

 

Upholding the Good (Superman, Captain America)

Responsibility of Power (Green Lantern, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four)

Seeking Justice (Batman)

Thrill of Adventure (Beast Boy, Booster Gold)

Unwanted Power (most Marvel mutants, Cyborg)

 

 

This was originally a list from Mayfair's DC Heroes. It suits my needs perfectly.

[devlin1]

Re: Because I Must!

 

Leaving Mister Incredible, whose motives are in question. (With Mrs. Incredible consistently defining his motives in ways that boil down to accusing him of selfishness, and Mr. Incredible not denying it but acting quite differently when we see him in action).

 

Mister Incredible seems not to fit any classification scheme. Rather he embodies the title of the thread: "Because I must!"

Hardly. IMO, he's clearly a Responsibility of Power/Thrillseeker kinda guy, although I don't believe he'd seek the thrill if he didn't have the power to begin with. He may say something else to his wife, but it's our actions under pressure, not our words, that define who we are. The first sequence of the film (at least, I think it's the first sequence-- I've only seen it once, and that was a while ago) very much defines him as a Responsibility of Power archetype, dealing with multiple crises at once because he feels obligated to help people if he can (cf. Spiderman). He may be forced into another societal role in his professional life, but even there he uses his bureaucractic power (since his other powers are useless at best) to help people. And he does it because he feels it's the right thing to do. Of anyone in the film, I think his motives are the most clear-cut, as they'd probably have to be for a protagonist in that kind of plot.

[Blue]

Re: Because I Must!

 

• Idealistic (Superman, most Golden-Age Characters)
  
• Avenging/atoning for a personal tragedy (Batman, Spider-Man)
  
• Inherits heroic "mantle" (Silver Age Green Lantern, Buffy)
  
• Thrill-Seeker (Booster Gold)
  
• Reluctant/Shoved into it (Cyborg, Hulk)
  
• Apprentice/Inspired by another hero (Robin, 2nd Nite-Owl)
  

I'd add "Fame and Fortune". Akin to a thrillseeker, this is more about how they can get the public to feed their ego.

[David Blue]

Re: Because I Must!

 

devlin1: "IMO, he's clearly a Responsibility of Power/Thrillseeker kinda guy, although I don't believe he'd seek the thrill if he didn't have the power to begin with. He may say something else to his wife, but it's our actions under pressure, not our words, that define who we are."

 

I agree with you that actions count most, and Mister Incredible's actions reveal a hero. Mister Incredible seems a straightforward guy.

 

And yet you put him in two categories as once: Responsibility of Power/Thrillseeker.

 

So it seems you can be a simple, straightforward, genuine hero, yet not fall neatly into any one category.

 

"Everyone" seems to like the DC categories of villain and hero motivations (with individual variations to the categories, and some new categories), and I do too. But I think there's a right way and a wrong way for a gamemaster to use them.

 

The right way is to generate NPC that aren't all the same - like every villain being some slight variation on a thrillseeker, or every NPC hero being some slight variation on a dark avenger, when you didn't mean for it to be like that. The DC motivation groups keep genuinely different options that fit the genre constantly before your eyes, and that's good.

 

The bad way to use the DC motivation categories would be to expect player characters to fit them, and assume that if a character submission doesn't fit neatly into any one box, the hero's motivation is lacking or unclear.

 

Even Mister Incredible - who's as heroic as you could want - doesn't pass that test. So it must be a flawed test.