Only in Hero ID

[Chimera 12]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Maybe people can help me. I have a problem with a character build that seems to fit this thread.

 

I am trying to rebuild a character for 6E. He is sort of like Guyver for those who know the reference. The character has alien nanites "living" in his body that grant him powers. However, he needs to turn said powers on or the nanites are dormant in his system.

 

The result is that he transforms from a fairly normal (though well above average) human into something that resembles someone wearing power armor/ a robot. The nanites cover his body as armor and enhance his physiology in the process. While the armor is active he gains a boost to his physical abilities (including speed, important later), and an array of powers (blast, flash, flight, etc.).

 

So here's the problem with the character. In order to be consistent with how characters are built, the GM has ruled that my character's build from 5E is no longer legal. I am in agreement with him, not only because the 6E book says the build no longer works. All you need to know is that all his enhanced stats and powers (including his multipower and elemental control) had a -1/4 limitation on them.

 

In order for the character to function properly he needs something akin to OIAID, but I can't have his transformation take a full phase action, and I don't believe his SFX (willing the nanites to "activate") constitutes something with "difficulties or ways to prevent him from changing identities".

 

The character as built in 5E has Extra Time: Delayed Phase on his armor, and nothing works unless his armor is fully active (this constitutes his Alternate Identity). This means that on phase 12, should he not be in his HID, he can hide or take cover as a half phase action and activate his powers as a half phase. Since this is all done on 12, there is no issue with Speed Crossover due to the character changing from a 3 speed to a 5 speed. He gets to act in his HID on phase 3.

 

If, however his transformation takes a full phase, this scenario changes. He must take all of phase 12 to hide/ take cover. On phase 4, he activates his powers and his speed changes. He looses his action on phase 5 due to crossover, and finally gets to act in his HID on phase 8.

 

Difficulties transforming make no sense for the character. Or at least I haven't been able to come up with any. And a relatively easy way to prevent the transformation is inconsistent with previous events, granted if I could come up with something I thought made sense I might just take it.

 

So any suggestions?

 

That could get a bit tricky to do with something like Only In Alternate ID, yes. At first glance, my reflex would be to try to rebuild the character with Multiform with his human form being presumably the "true" one, in part precisely because switching between forms that way is only a half-phase action by default. (The line between OIAID and Multiform is kind of fuzzy as it stands; in principle, you can do much of what you can do with one with the other as well, and their special effects may well be indistinguishable.)

[Gideon]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

My problem with Multiform is that it says the second form has a different personality from the base character. For my character at least this is very much not the case.

[Steve]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Maybe people can help me. I have a problem with a character build that seems to fit this thread.

So any suggestions?

 

I'm not sure of the legality in 6th of what I am about to suggest, but what about taking Instant Change with a Delayed Phase Limitation on it, then taking your other powers and doing them Only In Alternate ID?

 

Or, if you're really concerned about the SPD change issue, why not buy just the SPD (and maybe an 18-20 DEX) at full cost without the nanites being fully active, since you are only saving 2 points per point of SPD with OIAID? Maybe the nanites have started modifying your neural system to better integrate with you?

[Daltwisney]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

My problem with Multiform is that it says the second form has a different personality from the base character. For my character at least this is very much not the case.

 

Actually, if you read farther, it says the alternate forms MAY have different personalities. It also states that in many cases, the personality remains the same across different forms. (6E1, p267).

[Karmakaze]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

I'm not too crazy about that sort of thing. There's nothing about Batman or Daredevil that says they can't kick as much butt outside of their costume, they just tend to (occasionally) hold back in order to preserve their Secret ID -- which they're already getting points for.

 

I can see the purchase of defenses for an armor lined costume, standard Focus stuff, sure. I can even understand the occasional PRE stat difference that some designers give those sort of guys, to reflect that there's increased poise, confidence, and "game face" going on (alongside the fact that Batman's cowl is designed to strike fear, that a known street vigilante might also have Reputation Perks to add to intimidation, or whatever)... but outright OCV, DCV, etc? I don't know if I'd let that fly, at my game table, just for someone changing their pants and putting a mask on.

 

For most concepts, I'd say the need to not use powers in civilian ID is covered by Secret ID and doesn't justify buying OIHID in addition. I could see doing a character with a psychological makeup where they only have the confidence to perform while masked, and that might count.

[Gideon]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

I'm not sure of the legality in 6th of what I am about to suggest' date=' but what about taking Instant Change with a Delayed Phase Limitation on it, then taking your other powers and doing them Only In Alternate ID?[/quote']

 

Thats sort of how its already built, and I was told its not legal. The only difference is that instead of Instant Change, its his armor that has the Delayed Phase. I was told by my GM that I don't need Instant Change because of having armor. In his normal ID the character is 5'10" 160 lbs, with his armor on he's 6'5" 625 lbs.

 

The issue with this is that the powers with OIAID would still take a full phase action to "turn on". So he would be in his "costume" with all of his armor on phase 3, but unable to use any of his powers or move until phase 5.

 

Or, if you're really concerned about the SPD change issue, why not buy just the SPD (and maybe an 18-20 DEX) at full cost without the nanites being fully active, since you are only saving 2 points per point of SPD with OIAID? Maybe the nanites have started modifying your neural system to better integrate with you?

 

Rebuilding the character has other issues related to this topic that I didn't want to get into fully, part of them is figured stats. In 5E he had 16 DEX, 3 SPD in normal ID and 21 DEX, 5 SPD in hero ID. The character's SPD cost him 16 points (4 points, plus 12 points) because of figuring. Now I'm looking at spending 46 points (if his SPD changes) or 50 if it doesn't. Right now anything I can use to save points helps.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

My problem with Multiform is that it says the second form has a different personality from the base character. For my character at least this is very much not the case.

 

Hmmm. Is this what's confusing you, perchance?

 

"A character with this Standard Power can change his original form into one or more other forms, each with its own abilities, personality, and Characteristics. [...]"

 

If so, note that nothing in there says that the forms' personalities must actually be different from each other, any more than that their stats must be. Two or more forms having "their own Characteristics" doesn't mean that they can't ever have the same score in any of them, for example (and in fact, injuries do transfer between forms), and the same holds true for personality traits. In fact, unless given a specific Physical Complication, all forms share the same set of memories by default. That's how one of the examples of Multiform immediately following the above introduction can be a character with reconfigurable armor (a la at least one animated incarnation of Iron Man) -- nothing about that concept suggests that the man inside the armor has to change in the slightest.

[Gideon]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

For most concepts' date=' I'd say the need to not use powers in civilian ID is covered by Secret ID and doesn't justify buying OIHID in addition. I could see doing a character with a psychological makeup where they only have the confidence to perform while masked, and that might count.[/quote']

 

I completely agree. Having a hero persona does not constitute an inability to use your powers while not having your costume on.

 

The characters are Role Playing. None of use should have a problem understanding this concept.

[Steve]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

The issue with this is that the powers with OIAID would still take a full phase action to "turn on". So he would be in his "costume" with all of his armor on phase 3' date=' but unable to use any of his powers or move until phase 5.[/quote']

 

Well, I hope this doesn't come across as snarky, but you have to give up something in order to get a Limitation. If you don't want the limit for OIAID to be time, losing a phase or two of actions, there needs to be something that limits your access to your powers. Maybe the nanites won't activate in an intense magnetic field, so that could be the limiter that justifies the Limitation.

[ayinde]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

i use it a little different it means your not always "hero ready" and is related more like a Dependant npc than a item green lantern ring focus not wearing it well its a only in hero id power set so hope you can run home and get it 1/4 disadvantage roll of 8- you dont have it with you

[Squall]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

What?

 

Edit: Sorry, sorry. I don't mean to be a jerk about it. Honestly, I can't make heads or tails of that post.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

There's nothing about Only In Alternate/Hero Identity that would require a Secret ID.

 

Look at a few of the factors on the Limitation: is some form of switch that can be stopped and requires a full phase to complete.

 

Let's take, a character that built themselves a character that turns from normal guy to living flame. It takes a moment for his body to heat up and shift states - OIAD candidate right there.

Tony Stark ala The Movies - PUBLIC ID - and his armor could be built OIAD. Especially that suitcase version.

 

There's nothing that precludes the two from not requiring each other. You just have to work within the Limitation and decide why you don't go around on fire all the time, or in your armor all the time. There's plenty of gaming reasons for it that would qualify the -1/4 "extra phase, easily stopped, transformation" aspect.

 

OIAD & Secret ID synergize extremely well, but aren't dependent on each other to work.

[ayinde]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

ghost angel your example seam like a extra time limitation to me

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

ghost angel your example seam like a extra time limitation to me

 

nope, it's almost a direct quote of RAW (rules as written).

 

from 5er page 302,

 

ONLY IN HEROIC IDENTITY

 

For this Limitation to be valid, the character must have some difficulty changing forms — the change must take at least a Full Phase, if not longer (during which the character can do nothing else), and/or there must be other difficulties or ways to prevent him from changing identities.

[Gideon]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

So, I guess the consensus here is:

 

Being unable to use any of your powers while in your Secret Identity (on its own) is not limiting enough to warrant a -1/4 limitation.

 

I know that multiform would work for my character instead of OIAID, but I would really rather not rebuild him that way. Can anyone think of any other way to build this?

[Jhamin]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Being unable to use any of your powers while in your Secret Identity (on its own) is not limiting enough to warrant a -1/4 limitation.

 

Correct. It isn't enough that you have to change. In order to get the limit you need to *do something* to change and there has to be a way to stop you from doing it

[JmOz]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

While I will agree that is what RAW says from 5th up, I do not know if I agree full hardily with it. Compared to other -1/4 lims, I feel there is something of a witch hunt on this one, probably because of how common it is perceived to be (While I use it alot, most of my games I GM only have had maybe four characters with it over the course of years, instead of the much more common OIF...). Now having said that I do feel that the GM is called upon to make sure it is a limitation. But then I like to use things like you are in line at a bank when a hold up starts...

[Gideon]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Well, several times previously in a campaign with this character, he was stopped from transforming. Each time the character had to make a choice: Give up my SID or don't turn my powers on.

 

I know that technically my character could just say: "Screw it all, I don't need an SID", but he has family and friends and wouldn't want to put them in danger by revealing his hero ID.

 

So, would this constitute "a way to stop me from transforming"? Threaten to reveal his SID?

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Well, several times previously in a campaign with this character, he was stopped from transforming. Each time the character had to make a choice: Give up my SID or don't turn my powers on.

 

I know that technically my character could just say: "Screw it all, I don't need an SID", but he has family and friends and wouldn't want to put them in danger by revealing his hero ID.

 

So, would this constitute "a way to stop me from transforming"? Threaten to reveal his SID?

 

I'd say no. That's part and parcel with having a SID as a Complication. (Basically, you're *already* getting points for that.)

 

Now, if, say, ultra-high-frequency radio jamming would prevent the nannites from getting his mental signal to transform, that would qualify. That takes it completely out of the character's choice. (Even if he said, "Awww, screw the SID!" he still couldn't change.)

[Karmakaze]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

So' date=' would this constitute "a way to stop me from transforming"? Threaten to reveal his SID?[/quote']

 

I'm going to go with the consensus that that's a function of the Secret ID Complication. Think of it like this - if you were to buy off the Secret ID complication or replace it with Public ID, you'd then also have to rewrite all of the powers that had Only in Alternate Identity on them, even though they would not have changed.

 

I could see a GM allowing this if you're in a game where this is going to come up a lot, but, in general, I'd want the Limitation to take a bit more than that.

[torchwolf]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Other than OIAID, some other ways to represent activating nanites could be:

 

Non-Persistent (-1/4); having some benefit in that these would not automatically be Perceivable, and turn on quicker than with OIAID (but turn off when Stunned etc.)

 

Costs END Only To Activate (-1/4); such abilities become Perceivable, of course.

 

RAR (-1/4 and up); useful for abilities that may or may not take longer than usual to activate (depending on the Roll)

 

How useful those would be of course depend on your other applied Limitations.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Correct. It isn't enough that you have to change. In order to get the limit you need to *do something* to change and there has to be a way to stop you from doing it

 

This doesn't mean a character like Colossus from X-men can't take a similar Limitation though. In that character's case, Linked at the -1/4 level for all powers except one (typically Armor or Life Support with the Visible Limitation) works out very similarly to using OIHID.

[dmjalund]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

How SID affects OIHID is if the hero requires battle armor (or something else the character cannot wear in SID) then he must get into the battle armor (taking at least a phase) to "Hero Up" the SID also means you have to do it where people can't see you

[JmOz]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

This doesn't mean a character like Colossus from X-men can't take a similar Limitation though. In that character's case' date=' Linked at the -1/4 level for all powers except one (typically Armor or Life Support with the Visible Limitation) works out very similarly to using OIHID.[/quote']

 

Actualy ASSUMING you did do it to Resistant Protection/Armor, what you just described would cost EXACTLY the same (-1/4 lim on all powers)...I have gotten to a point where the exact definition of something is less important that understanding how it will work in the game being played, and being priced fairly.

 

Using Colossus asa n example, if you want to call it OIHID, but you are including elements of other limitations to compensate for it being not exactly OIHID from the book I'm happy, as long as it seems to hinder you as much as I feel a -1/4 lim SHOULD limit you.

 

Not sure if that makes perfect sense or not, but it is how I feel

[ghost-angel]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Actualy ASSUMING you did do it to Resistant Protection/Armor, what you just described would cost EXACTLY the same (-1/4 lim on all powers)...I have gotten to a point where the exact definition of something is less important that understanding how it will work in the game being played, and being priced fairly.

 

Using Colossus asa n example, if you want to call it OIHID, but you are including elements of other limitations to compensate for it being not exactly OIHID from the book I'm happy, as long as it seems to hinder you as much as I feel a -1/4 lim SHOULD limit you.

 

Not sure if that makes perfect sense or not, but it is how I feel

 

I would agree with this completely.