Only in Hero ID

[Yansuf]

Since some people seem to want to discuss this, I am starting a thread for it.

[dmjalund]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

in 6e this is now called Alternate ID

[The Main Man]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Well, I guess now is as good a time as any for me to bring up a class of powers that I have been using lately called "Hero Mode."

 

"Hero Mode" is that little bit of difference between a civilian identity and the heroic identity. It's the difference between Bruce Wayne and Batman. For example, I might just buy +2 OCV, OIAID (-1/4) (10x1=10/1.25=8 CP) and +2 DCV, OIAID (-1/4) (10x1=10/1.25=8 CP) to simulate that the character is simply better in combat when they are actually going out to fight crime - or whatever is appropriate to the genre.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

call it a complication greatly impairing (or slightly)

let the player decide on it's frequency

[Chimera 12]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

call it a complication greatly impairing (or slightly)

let the player decide on it's frequency

 

Well, really, how impairing it is directly depends on how many of the character's powers et al. are affected by it. (It's one thing if you buy all your powers with OIAID. It's something else if all your 'real' powers work in either ID and you just get a PRE boost from putting on your cool costume. ) Thus, I'd say that leaving it as a Limitation works fine.

 

How highly to rate that Limitation, now...I'm personally fine with leaving it at -1/4 and relying on the GM to make sure that it actually comes up in play. The Hero System (like most if not all role-playing games, really) already runs on sufficient amounts of "GM Discretion" that singling out this one Limitation as a problem just because it also happens to do that strikes me as making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

GMs who honestly don't think it's worth that much are, of course, always free to house rule it into a -0 Limitation in their campaign instead or just disallow it altogether.

[Squall]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

I'm personally fine with leaving it at -1/4 and relying on the GM to make sure that it actually comes up in play. The Hero System (like most if not all role-playing games' date=' really) [i']already[/i] runs on sufficient amounts of "GM Discretion" that singling out this one Limitation as a problem just because it also happens to do that strikes me as making a mountain out of a molehill.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

It's not a rules issue, it's a table-by-table game issue. If a GM doesn't make it come up, that's on the GM, not the rules as written.

[Balabanto]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

In general, unless the hero has some set of real conditions that prevail upon the character that cause the power to only function in Hero ID, then the answer should be no. Only in Alternate Identity means the identity must be significantly different from the other identity.

 

Batman putting on a costume does not suddenly give him OIAID on his DEX, SPD, and CON scores. Powered Armor can be bought OIAID, if you have a suit of armor that is nearly impossible to destroy, BUT, if that's the case, you should not also be buying OIF. If that's the case, and you are, one of those limitations is worth 0. You can't "Double Dip" on power limitations and gain the bonus twice.

[JmOz]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

While I agree about the double dipping, I have in the past and would in the future allow OIHID and Damagable, both -1/4 lims instead of OIF. It just ment that the armor could not be taken off the character, but it could be damaged, and messed with in other ways (It was a guy who was basicaly a suit of armor that was like Guyver, but gave the guy Energy based powers (Flight, entangle, TK, EB's, RKA's, etc...)

[BlueCloud2k2]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

One of the things that always bugged me was "how long does it take to get into Heroic ID." Even though Forever was the 2nd worse Batman movie, he told Dr. Meridian to "try firemen. Less to take off."

 

I can believe Superman or Flash having instantaneous Secret-to-Super ID...

 

But how fast is Justifiable for those who don't have a speed of 8+?

[Chimera 12]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

One of the things that always bugged me was "how long does it take to get into Heroic ID." Even though Forever was the 2nd worse Batman movie, he told Dr. Meridian to "try firemen. Less to take off."

 

I can believe Superman or Flash having instantaneous Secret-to-Super ID...

 

But how fast is Justifiable for those who don't have a speed of 8+?

 

Well, the guideline in the 6E1 writeup (pages 386/7) is "at least a Full Phase, if not longer". Of course, the way the text then goes on it may be possible to change more quickly if there's a reasonably easy way for others to prevent the change from happening...but in general I'd probably stick with that Full Phase minimum. Among other things, it means that if you don't want to be a sitting duck while changing you'd better have moved someplace safe in a previous phase because you certainly won't be doing it in the same one...

 

On the other hand, since the Limitation is noted as most appropriate for the superheroic genre, I wouldn't worry too much about the change having to take a 'realistic' amount of time either. For most cases, requiring that one full phase -- one panel, if you will -- should IMO be enough; outside of combat the difference between, say, one full phase and one full turn will all too often be relatively trivial, while in combat it could easily be crippling enough to rate a higher Limitation if strictly enforced.

[Squall]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Well, I guess now is as good a time as any for me to bring up a class of powers that I have been using lately called "Hero Mode."

 

"Hero Mode" is that little bit of difference between a civilian identity and the heroic identity. It's the difference between Bruce Wayne and Batman. For example, I might just buy +2 OCV, OIAID (-1/4) (10x1=10/1.25=8 CP) and +2 DCV, OIAID (-1/4) (10x1=10/1.25=8 CP) to simulate that the character is simply better in combat when they are actually going out to fight crime - or whatever is appropriate to the genre.

I'm not too crazy about that sort of thing. There's nothing about Batman or Daredevil that says they can't kick as much butt outside of their costume, they just tend to (occasionally) hold back in order to preserve their Secret ID -- which they're already getting points for.

 

I can see the purchase of defenses for an armor lined costume, standard Focus stuff, sure. I can even understand the occasional PRE stat difference that some designers give those sort of guys, to reflect that there's increased poise, confidence, and "game face" going on (alongside the fact that Batman's cowl is designed to strike fear, that a known street vigilante might also have Reputation Perks to add to intimidation, or whatever)... but outright OCV, DCV, etc? I don't know if I'd let that fly, at my game table, just for someone changing their pants and putting a mask on.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Well, really, how impairing it is directly depends on how many of the character's powers et al. are affected by it. (It's one thing if you buy all your powers with OIAID. It's something else if all your 'real' powers work in either ID and you just get a PRE boost from putting on your cool costume. ) Thus, I'd say that leaving it as a Limitation works fine.

 

How highly to rate that Limitation, now...I'm personally fine with leaving it at -1/4 and relying on the GM to make sure that it actually comes up in play. The Hero System (like most if not all role-playing games, really) already runs on sufficient amounts of "GM Discretion" that singling out this one Limitation as a problem just because it also happens to do that strikes me as making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

GMs who honestly don't think it's worth that much are, of course, always free to house rule it into a -0 Limitation in their campaign instead or just disallow it altogether.

 

I prefer most statts be bought simply without everything having a limitation

 

 

I don't allow power armor to provides dexterity or speed without being plugged into the user brain

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

In 5e, having the 'only in Hero ID' limitation requires that there be some way to prevent the character from entering his Heroic Identity. He has to say a magic word, or manipulate a device, or something, so if he can't do that for whatever reason, he can't access those powers.

 

For example, IMHO, Thor/Donald Blake was Hero ID; he had to tap his cane on the ground to become Thor. No cane, or nothing to tap against (say, floating in a zero G chamber away from the walls), or tied up, no turning into Thor. If Billy Batson is gagged or in a silence field, he can't say 'Shazam' to turn into Captain Marvel. Compare/Contrast Colossus, who armors up with just a thought; he doesn't have Hero ID, he just activates his Density Increase and Armor.

[dmjalund]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

However id you have a Secret ID, Only in Hero ID is valid, as there are things you can't do without revealing your identity

[Chimera 12]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

However id you have a Secret ID' date=' Only in Hero ID is valid, as there are things you can't do without revealing your identity[/quote']

 

Actually, let me try to shake that reflexive "Secret ID / OIAID" connection a bit.

 

Imagine the problems a character who'd bought his powers with OIAID would have if he had a Public ID instead. You can't tell me that most of his enemies knowing about that particular Achilles' heel wouldn't be at least as much of a hindrance as having to avoid being exposed...

[Cassandra]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Iron Man's suit would most likely be considered an "Only in Hero ID" as it can not be removed in a normal fashion. In theory a villain could use Transformation (Major) to turn Iron Man back into Tony Stark.

[dmjalund]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Actually, let me try to shake that reflexive "Secret ID / OIAID" connection a bit.

 

Imagine the problems a character who'd bought his powers with OIAID would have if he had a Public ID instead. You can't tell me that most of his enemies knowing about that particular Achilles' heel wouldn't be at least as much of a hindrance as having to avoid being exposed...

but if he has no secret, he has less reason to ever be out of "Hero Id"

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

but if he has no secret' date=' he has less reason to ever be out of "Hero Id"[/quote']

 

And at that point, he no longer qualifies for the limitation because he's got his powers up all the time. A bit circular, yes.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

but if he has no secret' date=' he has less reason to ever be out of "Hero Id"[/quote']

 

Well, if he's never out of his "heroic" ID, then he can't very well claim to have a valid alternate identity anymore, now can he? Which means no excuse for OIAID, either...

 

Of course, he might not be as eager to leave his old life behind. Or maybe the "hero" ID just isn't always as convenient to use as the "normal" one in a world built mostly for normal humans. As long as the character does still have some reason to keep switching back and forth every so often, the Limitation applies.

[dmjalund]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

that means the player must define a reason (points based or otherwise) why he would leave his hero id - and the GM must make sure he carries through

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

that means the player must define a reason (points based or otherwise) why he would leave his hero id - and the GM must make sure he carries through

I can't really see most Power Armor characters going shopping or to the movies in their armor. I'm sure there are a plethora of other reasons.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

that means the player must define a reason (points based or otherwise) why he would leave his hero id - and the GM must make sure he carries through

 

That kind of seems to assume a borderline antagonistic player/GM relationship. As in, "players are expected to try to cheat and the GM must always be on his guard so he can catch them in the act and steer them back onto the straight and narrow if needed". I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that.

 

Moreover, for purposes of assigning a Limitation or not what's important isn't the reason why a character would switch back and forth between identities...only whether or not he actually does do so. And that's really a basic, fairly binary concept issue -- either your character is the kind of person who'd do that or not.

 

Thus:

 

-- If the character concept really calls for the character to have both a 'powered' and a 'non-powered' identity and both of them will see use in the campaign, that's OIAID.

-- If the character theoretically has two identities but only ever uses one of them in play, he can safely be treated as only having that identity in the first place. Things that never (or almost never) come up in a campaign aren't worth character points either way.

-- If the character starts out with two identities and powers bought with OIAID and then the player decides to abandon the 'powerless' ID, he should buy off the Limitation as soon as possible because it no longer really applies.

 

Why the character might decide to jump into any particular direction really doesn't matter all that much. Coming up with excuses for just about everything they decide to do is something most people are naturally good at, after all.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

I can't really see most Power Armor characters going shopping or to the movies in their armor. I'm sure there are a plethora of other reasons.

 

unless the armor also serves as a brace fora crippled arm or leg

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

I can't really see most Power Armor characters going shopping or to the movies in their armor. I'm sure there are a plethora of other reasons.

Well, there's also the whole "bathroom" thing. Unless they build their armor with a "trapdoor".

[Gideon]

Re: Only in Hero ID

 

Maybe people can help me. I have a problem with a character build that seems to fit this thread.

 

I am trying to rebuild a character for 6E. He is sort of like Guyver for those who know the reference. The character has alien nanites "living" in his body that grant him powers. However, he needs to turn said powers on or the nanites are dormant in his system.

 

The result is that he transforms from a fairly normal (though well above average) human into something that resembles someone wearing power armor/ a robot. The nanites cover his body as armor and enhance his physiology in the process. While the armor is active he gains a boost to his physical abilities (including speed, important later), and an array of powers (blast, flash, flight, etc.).

 

So here's the problem with the character. In order to be consistent with how characters are built, the GM has ruled that my character's build from 5E is no longer legal. I am in agreement with him, not only because the 6E book says the build no longer works. All you need to know is that all his enhanced stats and powers (including his multipower and elemental control) had a -1/4 limitation on them.

 

In order for the character to function properly he needs something akin to OIAID, but I can't have his transformation take a full phase action, and I don't believe his SFX (willing the nanites to "activate") constitutes something with "difficulties or ways to prevent him from changing identities".

 

The character as built in 5E has Extra Time: Delayed Phase on his armor, and nothing works unless his armor is fully active (this constitutes his Alternate Identity). This means that on phase 12, should he not be in his HID, he can hide or take cover as a half phase action and activate his powers as a half phase. Since this is all done on 12, there is no issue with Speed Crossover due to the character changing from a 3 speed to a 5 speed. He gets to act in his HID on phase 3.

 

If, however his transformation takes a full phase, this scenario changes. He must take all of phase 12 to hide/ take cover. On phase 4, he activates his powers and his speed changes. He looses his action on phase 5 due to crossover, and finally gets to act in his HID on phase 8.

 

Difficulties transforming make no sense for the character. Or at least I haven't been able to come up with any. And a relatively easy way to prevent the transformation is inconsistent with previous events, granted if I could come up with something I thought made sense I might just take it.

 

So any suggestions?