Redemeable Villains

[OddHat]

Which CKC or CU Villains would you use as Heroes? How and why?

 

Foxbat, Earth's Mightiest Champion?

 

(Typo Fixed) (embarrassed smile)

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Redemeable Villains

 

Originally posted by OddHat

Which CKC or CU villains would you use as villains? How and why?

 

Foxbat, Earth's Mightiest Champion?

 

Why, I'd use the *all* as villains!

 

Or do you mean which ones would we use as heroes?

[Vanguard00]

Re: Redemeable Villains

 

Originally posted by OddHat

Which CKC or CU villains would you use as villains? How and why?

 

Foxbat, Earth's Mightiest Champion?

 

If you mean which villains would make good heroes, then I would vote for GRAB. I could easily see them turning into a kind of "Thunderbolts" team. In fact, I've set up an adventure where that very thing happens. They'd be my first choice in a heartbeat.

 

Armadillo would be a good candidate, in my opinion. The real villain is killed or disappears, another guy finds the suit and puts it on, and instead of being a villain he ends up being a hero. Heck, this would work for just about any armored villain.

 

And then there are the Crown guys...

 

...um, nevermind. That should go on the mirror-universe-with-beards thread.

[Chuckg]

Re: Re: Redemeable Villains

 

> If you mean which villains would make good heroes, then I

> would vote for GRAB. I could easily see them turning into a

> kind of "Thunderbolts" team. In fact, I've set up an

> adventure where that very thing happens. They'd be my

> first choice in a heartbeat.

 

Don't forget to add Lady Blue... of course, that's *four* hotties and one guy on GRAB, then. Somebody tell Lodestone to reform fast, Cheshire Cat's brain is about to explode.

[OddHat]

Re: Re: Redemeable Villains

 

Originally posted by Supreme Serpent

Why, I'd use the *all* as villains!

 

Or do you mean which ones would we use as heroes?

 

Argh.

 

Edit in progress.

[Supreme Serpent]

(Don't have CKC or CU yet, so basing things on pre-5th ed villains.)

 

Stat-sheet wise, pretty much any villain would work. Change disads/origin/motivation - voila!

 

As for who would work with the least effort? To use as NPC heroes to help populate the world? I'd pull the Ultimates in whole-hog. Some of the generic villains, like Pulsar, Ogre, Green Dragon, Icicle, etc could make a good team. Foxbat of course.

 

Who would I personally enjoy playing as a heroic PC? Have to go back to the Ultimates again. Binder - how can you NOT have fun annoying villains with a jet pack and a glue gun? Blackstar - desoldifying brick? Yes please!

[Lord Liaden]

Before CKC came out I had Firewing go through a profound change of heart. After one too many defeats he made a more-or-less literal Deal with the Devil to increase his power to unbeatable levels, but the cost to his self-respect and sense of honor proved to be too high. Shamed by his actions he finally resolved his inner conflict between honor and personal glory and renounced his quest for the latter, looking for more noble causes to fight for. He ultimately died in battle against his kinfolk who were invading the Earth.

 

It should be possible to have the current version of Firewing go through a similar change, although since his personality seems to be less conflicted it might be harder to justify.

[Enforcer84]

Well, from 4th it was easy, I chose the guys from the Champions Book...and a few classic enemies

 

Armadillo

Ogre

Mindlock

Shrinker

Cheshire Cat

Mongoose

Lady Blue

 

 

 

Only Mindlock & Mongoose have been lost in the move.

[megaplayboy]

To a bounty hunter, all villains are redeemable:D

[Crimson Arrow]

Re: Re: Re: Redemeable Villains

 

Originally posted by Chuckg

> Don't forget to add Lady Blue... of course, that's *four* hotties and one guy on GRAB, then. Somebody tell Lodestone to reform fast, Cheshire Cat's brain is about to explode.

 

Nope, that's not his brain.

 

[TheEmerged]

RE: Lady Blue. I disagree on this one: she's so obviously a "villain about to turn hero" that I for one can't help but play up how nearly-unredeemable she is. To quote something on my most recent GM handout (for a villain campaign) -- "She’s equally dedicated to a lifetime of pointless goodwill gestures and not doing anything real about the issues." I can't escape the view of her as an egotistical "limo liberal" for lack of a more accurate term.

 

I'm kind of the same way with Cateran & Black Paladin -- just to a lesser extent. They're too obviously played as redemption bait to truly work well for it. As for Nebula, I have trouble viewing her as anything other than a plot device because of that EDM-UAO.

 

RE: Armadillo. Gotta admit I have a soft spot for ole Army.

 

RE: Shrinker. More likely than LB to go legit, in my opinion. Shrinker just needs to grow up (pun intended).

 

Other people from CKC I can see going legit?

 

Lancer, of PSI. One can argue she's already legitimate; in a world where the registration act is handled more realisitically than Champions does (sorry Steve, but that's one ball you dropped) Lancer is already a white hat.

 

Black Harlegquin. Okay, I have to admit this is one is a thorn in my craw. It's not bad enough that Steve dropped CLOWN from the Champions Universe, but did he have to add insult to injury with this blatant Joker knock=off? For my own campaign I've decided he's really Sado (Merry Andrew's alternate-dimensional evil twin), but for GM's that don't want a full-fledged CLOWN one option would be to have BH "go legit" and become a solo Merry Andrew.

 

Leech's origin lends itself to the possibility of redemption, and has the added bonus of still looking like a monster. Maybe I'm channelling The Thing but I love the idea of the hero with an evil appearance.

 

Riptide has interesting potential as well; the only thing working against her is cliche (and I hate cliches). Ye Ditto with Tesseract.

[Chuckg]

Cateran is obviously redemption bait, but Black Paladin? That guy's only a few percent less evil than /Dark Seraph/.

 

I consider that entire sidebar by Witchcraft to be one of two things:

 

a) a little attempt at upping the pathos, as in 'look at this waste of potential -- it's already wasted, too late to recover it, but look at the waste'

 

proof positive that Witchcraft is a ditz.

 

 

Kudos to whoever said Lancer looked redeemable. AAMOF, I once tried to gen up a PC -- a minor psionic and commando type -- who was one of her fellow Resistance members, caught in the same dimensional warp but knocked forward in time a year or so (so she was already a member of PSI by the time he got here). His role? To hook up with the heros and then find out his old friend had fallen in with the villains.

 

Idea wasn't approved, but hey, I tried.

[Tech]

Hmmm...

 

I'd have to say Mechanon, Prof. Muerte and Mechassassin. Shyeah, right, sure. Enough kidding.

 

Dragonfly was changed back to normal in my campaign and lives a productive life. Icicle's gone cold turkey on crime. I couldn't resist. Mongoose is quite redeemable, Lancer, Foxbat (some day), the 4e Shrinker (the 5e Shrinker concept is awful), Lady Blue, Cateran and others.

 

My 2 cents:

I say others because I think a lot of villains could actually turn from crime with the right circumstance. There's relatively few supercriminals who actually just out & out like murdering and killing. Many are greedy, arrogant, insolent, selfish jerks but I doubt they'd go the full distance of murdering a hero. Beat the tar out of them, sure! Murder is different.

 

The problem is, as long as they don't change and they stay within their world of greed, selfishness and whatever, they'll endure going to jail knowing they left Hero1 & 2 with black eyes with the consolation that they'll be out on the streets in a few to gain more moola than before.

[Patriot]

One of my players has adopted Foxbat as A viable pc,especially after the Day of the Destroyer where A goofy scheme he concocted would up helping to save the day

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Hmmm...

 

Originally posted by Tech

I'd have to say Mechanon, Prof. Muerte and Mechassassin. Shyeah, right, sure. Enough kidding.

 

 

If you assume that Mechanon's programming is alterable, he could be one of the most redeemable villains around (or at least one model of him). Witness the 4E Peacekeeper from Neutral Ground in Classic Organizations.

 

Assuming he survived Scorpia's murder attempt, I wouldn't discard Professor Muerte out of hand, either. Near-death experiences have a way of changing people.

[lemming]

Re: Re: Hmmm...

 

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

If you assume that Mechanon's programming is alterable, he could be one of the most redeemable villains around (or at least one model of him). Witness the 4E Peacekeeper from Neutral Ground in Classic Organizations.

if not redeemable, he's at least recycable

[Cyragnome]

I've used both Bluejay and Icicle as reformed villians as NPC in different hero groups...heck I even used Mindslayer as well!

 

I could see a smart Grond being a good guy, in fact I've been thinking of doing that with my Freedom City version to give the team a solid brick.

 

I could see Menagerie going on the straight and narrow, given an oppropriate chance. Ogre, Stormfront and Zephyr might be interesting too...of course the regulars like Lady Blue, etc.

[Ghost who Walks]

I had Pulsar get cured during the course of the campaign. I was forming a team of government militaryheroes, called "Joint Force".

 

Has a member from each of the armed services on it, including the Coast Guard.

 

Pulsar used to be a marine...and I needed a ranged attacker.

 

Anyway, it got revealed that Pulsar had a split personality occur when he got his powers...as long as he takes his medication, he stays in his orginial personality (a gung-ho energy blasting jarhead, with explosive skill)

 

There is also a powerful, Heroic psionic in the campaign (menton's daughter, Menton I made older). She is able to reprogram villains to be heroes...generally she does this through a from of psionic counseling, helping the villain deal with the reason they became a villain in the first place. Of course, there is the moral question...she is very powerful, and says she is always right...

 

Stronghold was built during the campaign (I stuck it on Alcatraz island, perfect location and reputation). Before it was built, several superhero teams had recruiting drives, some would offer to take minor villains on, in order to boost their ranks. Several NPC's joined the team this way, none of them were from the books though.

 

I once had an alien invasion, where the government offered pardons to 11 villains, if they would make a suicide attack on the alien space ship. An ex-military PC hero was drafted to lead it. It was used partly to kill off some of the villains I disliked, and to get pardons for Durak and Bora. Bora became a member of the Italian Parliament, and Durak runs a weapons export company in the Republic of Georgia. They are both still villains of course, now they just have real power.

 

Grond turned out to be an alien with brain damage, some other aliens came along and fixed him. Now he runs around with his 30 intelligence, ridiculous amont of science skills, and tries to take over the planet. "The name is...Doctor Grondicus."

[Azimer the Mad]

In my campaign, one of the PCs married Cateran, since they had known each other since the 17th Century. They adopted a teenage version of Hummingbird, among others, and she's incredibly happy because raising a house of super-powered teenage girls is like running a bandit gang without worrying about the King's gallows. She did have a period of sneaking out to underground knife fights for excitement. She's currently expecting.

 

GRAB hasn;t really "reformed," per se, but they (with Gremlin from Champions: New Millenium Alliances replacing Hummingbird) always aggravate and bemuse said player by coming over to the house for poker night. The house rule is, the supervillains can come over as long as no crimes happen and the kids don;t emulate them.

 

One of the players helped reform Sensor from and old Hero Magazine. She just fixed his out of wack sensory powers. He and Three other ex-villains, including Onslaught and the Aggressor from Palladium's Villain's Unlimited, are running a hero'es for hire business.

 

Mechanon-17 reformed. Mechanon-1 beat the snot out of him for it, but the players stepped in.

 

Nebula's been a personal project of Cateran's hubby ever since her hands were taken of by the Duress Gauntlets self-destruction-upon-removal mechanism. After cybernetics hands installation, he's giving her counselling.

 

Everybody likes Foxbat. They use careful force with him, because in a world full of psychopaths and killers, he's a break.

 

One of my players is trying to SCARE Bulldozer straight. Hilarity ensues.

 

Anyone remember Tungarak fromm Champions New Millenium: Bay City? I laughed SO hard when I saw him as a Viper supervillain in the new Viper book. In my game, he's a Champion. Like a big, rocky version of Justice from the Avengers.

 

A bunch of my anti-heroes and Magneto-types pulled an Authority and started "fixing" Africa. Mechanon-17 helped. They were lucky they survived the atomic bomb the U.S. dropped on Rwanda. Mopst of them are still in hiding.

 

I think that's about it for the published supervillains. There's two or three more originals. My players like reformation storylines. They say it makes them feel like they've made a difference.

[Southern Cross]

Redeemable Villains

 

There's one villainess that hasn't been mentioned - Mentalla.As portrayed in Classic Enemies (I don't have CKC yet) she seemed to have at least the potential for redemption.What if Doctor Destroyer had sent her to infiltrate a hero group instead of Eurostar? Remember she was portrayed as the only member of Eurostar who tried to avoid killing.

[chance-knight]

THE MONSTER!

 

Oh yeah baby! The monster as a "good guy", you heard me...

 

How the hell you ask? Well we all know that the origin and even the being known as the Monster is a mystery (according to the write up anyway). Some still claim it's a robot and some think it's being controlled. What if the controller changed or the program was altered. What if the monster is found to be somebody that can't control the transformation but then is treated.

 

I'd still want the Monster to be seen as just that, while doing things that are concidered heroic. It would be very difficult for the Monster to ever change public opinion, especially while still causing fear and panic! The monster could become a hero even if public opinion never changes. Talk about a challenge...

[Battlestaff]

Panda and Racoon

 

Bear with me, I don't have CKC yet, it's in the mail from the online store (if you haven't already, check out the bundled sets at the online store, they saved me a bit of money).

 

From Classic Enemies, what about Panda and Raccoon? They are on the run from PSI and VIPER, and don't want to commit crimes. They could easily be redeemed if they weren't on the run.

 

There's also Thunder and Lightening, the husband and wife pair. They had to act as heroes, and could easily go back to that with the right change of heart.

[Chuckg]

Re: 5e Mentalla -- unlike 4e Mentalla, she's not the gentle one of Eurostar any longer. "Psych Lim: Disdainful Of Mortals, Considers Other People's Minds Her Playthings" (Common, Strong)

 

She's also one of Fiacho's best friends, and loves his philosophy.

[Scott Heine]

You're missing the most obvious one: Doctor Destroyer.

 

Aw, c'mon. He's just misunderstood. He needs a little lovin'. He needs a mommy... It's amazing what warm milk and cookies will do to soften the grumpiness out of even the toughest despot.