Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

[Balabanto]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

What if the person treats women like disposable sex objects, but they also treat men like disposable cannon fodder or otherwise way beneath them? Misanthropism, or just being a narcissistic a-hole?

 

I think sometimes I act like a jerk(we all act like jerks at some point, it's human nature), but if I act like a jerk to someone other than another straight white male, my jerk-ness may be perceived as something other than just "me being a jerk". If I act like a jerk because the other person is someone other than another straight white male, then they're on to something. But if I act like a jerk to everyone, or just because I'm in a jerky mood, then I'm just a jerk.

 

Well, if the person walks over everyone equally and is that big of a jerk, then more than likely, in a comic book world, he is a super villain. As such, we should expect the standards of villainy to apply.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Hm' date=' is there anyway to frame the Vow of Chastity particularly as a basis for actual supernatural powers that doesn't come across as offensive?[/quote']

 

Clearly not! If only because it's such a touchy subject that you are bound to offend SOMEONE no matter what course of action you choose

 

Seriously, it proobably depends on the setting, story repercussions, mechanics and ones personal views on sex.

 

I've played in D&D games where a vow of chastity was the source of a cleric, paladin or monks powers. Sometimes this was just background fluff that never actually came up in game. Sometimes it was a powerful roleplaying tool. And sometimes it was a ticking time bomb waiting to go off...

[Bloodstone]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Might I add, I would totally play a martial artist/monk type character that loses some amount of power if they have had sex recently. That's a pretty common belief in the fighting/sporting world, though plenty of people, myself included, believe the exact opposite.

 

Now that I thik about it, there's an ammsuing bit about this in the boxing buddy movie Play it to the Bone.

 

Anyhow, I would most likely not play such a character if they lost ALL of their power if they had sex, especially if they lost all power permenantly...

[steriaca]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Um, what do you call someone who is like a raceist, but with gender instead? A genderist?

[concord]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Um' date=' what do you call someone who is like a raceist, but with gender instead? A genderist?[/quote']

 

chau·vin·ist [shoh-vuh-nist]

1. a person who is aggressively and blindly patriotic, especially one devoted to military glory.

2. a person who believes one gender is superior to the other, as a male chauvinist or a female chauvinist .

[megaplayboy]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Sexist, chauvinist, misogynist/misandrist, patriarchal/matriarchal

In the case of gender identity, transgenderist or transphobic

In the case of orientation, homophobic/heterophobic/biphobic, heterosexist, homosexist, bisexist(that word probably doesn't exist but probably should).

[steriaca]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Thank you, Megaplayboy, for the word.

 

And the folowing is an ad, but it does have something to do with this thread.

 

Come and see my pervert supervillian, Mister Wicked, in his own thread. Feal free to critasise what I am doing with him, and feaal free to sergest, well, anything.

 

Thank you.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Clearly not! If only because it's such a touchy subject that you are bound to offend SOMEONE no matter what course of action you choose

 

Seriously, it proobably depends on the setting, story repercussions, mechanics and ones personal views on sex.

 

I've played in D&D games where a vow of chastity was the source of a cleric, paladin or monks powers. Sometimes this was just background fluff that never actually came up in game. Sometimes it was a powerful roleplaying tool. And sometimes it was a ticking time bomb waiting to go off...

 

Generally - when it's a personal moral or religious code. There are many religions on the planet whose clergy practice chastity for one reason or another.

 

Or, if you've specifically defined and alien or non-current-earth culture where our standards don't apply.

 

Thanks, I'm probably just being naive but when I think of Vow of Chastity my mind goes first to what the person is giving up (a family, children, one of life's great joys, etc) out of dedication rather than rape or sexuality as defilement. But I see how its a topic that would have to be handled well particularly in today's climate.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Thanks' date=' I'm probably just being naive but when I think of Vow of Chastity my mind goes first to what the person is giving up (a family, children, one of life's great joys, etc) out of dedication rather than rape or sexuality as defilement. But I see how its a topic that would have to be handled well particularly in today's climate.[/quote']

 

There's also a major application of the Law of Unintended Consequences here.

 

Fantasy settings are different than the real world. Magic is usually manifest.

Magic users assume a tactical and/or strategic role similar to siege weapons and WMDs.

Disabling such assets becomes an important element of planning.

Institutionalized rape is already used, often in religious clashes, with far less practical motivation as a (loathsome) battle practice.

I shudder to think how much worse it'd be in this kinda situation, and I have met more than my share of players who'd follow this same line of reasoning, especially if they found themselves in open conflict with this religious order.

 

Not that I endorse this stupid misogynist paradigm, but be aware that there's a briar patch there.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Institutionalized rape is already used, often in religious clashes, with far less practical motivation as a (loathsome) battle practice.

 

I am pleased to say, this has never been the case in any fantasy game I've played in or run (discounting, say, the first two years or so ... 14-year-olds tend to have inappropriate games, IME). And, frankly, if it were, I would simply leave.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Unfortunately, I wasn't actually thinking of Fantasy settings when I was typing that line, but real world examples, mores the pity.

[Orion]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Thanks' date=' I'm probably just being naive but when I think of Vow of Chastity my mind goes first to what the person is giving up (a family, children, one of life's great joys, etc) out of dedication rather than rape or sexuality as defilement. But I see how its a topic that would have to be handled well particularly in today's climate.[/quote']

 

One does not give up children, one is blessed to not have been cursed with the little hellspawn. Your mileage may vary, of course....

 

And a vow of chastity in no way denies the person a family. While having sex can make a marriage happier (or at least more tolerable), it certainly isn't a requirement. There's probably quite a few marriages out there where one partner hasn't wanted, or perhaps hasn't received, any sex in a long time, but still has no wish to leave.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Thanks' date=' I'm probably just being naive but when I think of Vow of Chastity my mind goes first to what the person is giving up (a family, children, one of life's great joys, etc) out of dedication rather than rape or sexuality as defilement. But I see how its a topic that would have to be handled well particularly in today's climate.[/quote']

 

Sure, might be a little naive, but you should probably feel lucky that your brain hans't been conditioned to go there

 

That said, even taking the rape element out of it, I'm not all that comfortable with the concept for an iconic female character like Wonder Woman being limited that way

 

"Oh, SuperMAN and BatMAN can have sex as much as they want and there's no repercussions, but the moment Wonder WOMAN is no longer a virgin, she loses her powers? This is @#$%^&*$!!!"

 

A lesser known character may be able to pull it off without much hassle, but it's still a touchy subject...

[Bloodstone]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Most Chastity Vows I've heard include not taking a wife/husband specially if the marriage isn't considered valid until consummated.

 

Depending on deffinitioon, someone can be chaste while still having marital sex.

 

Somone that is celibate cannot have sex or (typically) get married.

 

Varies by culture...

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Depending on deffinitioon, someone can be chaste while still having marital sex.

 

Somone that is celibate cannot have sex or (typically) get married.

 

Varies by culture...

 

I know just used the wrong word.

[Ravor]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I seem to recall that in some myths, a witch loses most of her powers once she loses her virignity.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I seem to recall that in some myths' date=' a witch loses most of her powers once she loses her virignity.[/quote']

 

And other myths where doing that act (with the right kind of partner) grants them- see: Witches of Eastwick.

[Lucius]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Before I address a number of things others have said, I have a question:

 

What thoughts and feelings are elicited by the idea of a superpowered MALE whose powers derive from chastity, or who would become weak and vulnerable if he were to experience sexual contact with a female?

 

Is such a concept misandrist?

 

While I am asking, how about a male character who refuses romantic involvement because he is waiting for a woman to prove herself worthy, say by defeating him in combat or meeting a specific challenge?

 

 

 

It also comes with the implication that a woman's choice to be sexually active is somehow damning. Where men with not just sexually active lives' date=' but multiple partners, are considered superior.[/quote']

 

By who? Given that

 

Generally - when it's a personal moral or religious code. There are many religions on the planet whose clergy practice chastity for one reason or another.

 

Our cultural baggage also includes the paradigm that refraining from sexual contact brings a person - especially a man, as until recently it was only men who could be priests in Christianity - closer to God.

 

 

I think it diminishes both sexes

 

That is why I questioned calling it "mysoginist" given that - as I was thinking of it at the time - it presents Woman as inherently "Wonder-" ful by her own nature, and I was drawing the inference that men are thereby presented as so corrupt and impure that intimacy with one saps a woman (or at least Wonder Woman) of her inherent power. It hardly seems to glorify masculinity, viewed that way.

 

Which involves yet another unjustified assumption on my part. Is it the male gender that is painted as dangerous and polluting, or sexual contact, regardless of with whom?

 

 

Hm' date=' is there anyway to frame the Vow of Chastity particularly as a basis for actual supernatural powers that doesn't come across as offensive?[/quote']

 

Generally - when it's a personal moral or religious code. There are many religions on the planet whose clergy practice chastity for one reason or another.

 

Or, if you've specifically defined and alien or non-current-earth culture where our standards don't apply.

 

Paradise Island isn't sufficiently alien or non-current-earth?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Insufficiently alien palindromedary?

[Tasha]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

That is why I questioned calling it "mysoginist" given that - as I was thinking of it at the time - it presents Woman as inherently "Wonder-" ful by her own nature, and I was drawing the inference that men are thereby presented as so corrupt and impure that intimacy with one saps a woman (or at least Wonder Woman) of her inherent power. It hardly seems to glorify masculinity, viewed that way.

 

Which involves yet another unjustified assumption on my part. Is it the male gender that is painted as dangerous and polluting, or sexual contact, regardless of with whom?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Insufficiently alien palindromedary?

 

It isn't that it's the Male that is poluting the woman. Most people perceive it as the Woman losing her Virginal Status by having sexual relations. It seems that it only counts when a Virginal Woman has sex with a man. Somehow sexual relations with another woman are somehow not counted. Probably comes from breaking the Hymen when a woman first has sex with a male. It's the idea that a woman who hasn't had sex with a man is somehow more virtuous that is Misogynist. It is a double standard that still hasn't left our culture.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Before I address a number of things others have said, I have a question:

 

What thoughts and feelings are elicited by the idea of a superpowered MALE whose powers derive from chastity, or who would become weak and vulnerable if he were to experience sexual contact with a female?

 

Is such a concept misandrist?

 

While I am asking, how about a male character who refuses romantic involvement because he is waiting for a woman to prove herself worthy, say by defeating him in combat or meeting a specific challenge?

 

Not speaking Ghost Angel but I've usually seen that viewed a sexist when it invokes a negative reaction as if contact with a woman in polluting and women are the source of corruption and lack of virtue. Honestly, I don't think I've run across that last option you mention. I'd be interested in how that would come across too.

[Ravor]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

And other myths where doing that act (with the right kind of partner) grants them- see: Witches of Eastwick.

 

The only thing that came up in my search was a review for an 80s movie and based off a quick wiki reading I think I'd throw that into "dealing with the devil" as opposed to tantric magic per say.

 

What thoughts and feelings are elicited by the idea of a superpowered MALE whose powers derive from chastity, or who would become weak and vulnerable if he were to experience sexual contact with a female?

 

Is such a concept misandrist?

 

While I am asking, how about a male character who refuses romantic involvement because he is waiting for a woman to prove herself worthy, say by defeating him in combat or meeting a specific challenge?

 

Personally I don't have a problem with either no matter which gender; in theory at least. However as with most things, it all depends on the execution.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Really, I find the whole concept of sex being related to powers, whether gaining or losing, to be, well, nonsensical. Probably not something I'd allow in a game, between the potential for offense and the general 'how in the world does that even work?' aspects of it. I can't even comprehend how someone could come up with that.

[McCoy]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Before I address a number of things others have said, I have a question:

 

What thoughts and feelings are elicited by the idea of a superpowered MALE whose powers derive from chastity, or who would become weak and vulnerable if he were to experience sexual contact with a female?

 

Is such a concept misandrist?

Archie Andrews as Pureheart the Powerful? Being kissed by a girl would neutralize his powers briefly.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Really' date=' I find the whole concept of sex being related to powers, whether gaining or losing, to be, well, nonsensical. Probably not something I'd allow in a game, between the potential for offense and the general 'how in the world does that even work?' aspects of it. I can't even comprehend how someone could come up with that.[/quote']

 

Well, to each their own. I don't see it as necessarily more nonsensical than "whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor". And the same hormone responsible for libido, testosterone, is also involved in muscle-building and aggressiveness, so anything that boosts it may also boost sex drive, for example. And, of course, carnal lust can be just as powerful a motivation for characters as lust for power, greed and thirsting for revenge.

[Ravor]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Perhaps better fitting for mystical types, but remember that sex, as well as the lack thereof has been believed to hold incredible power throughout the historical record, everything from demons using sex to drain lifeforce in a man's dreams, to "a man shalt not waste his seed", to the more modern "save it for game day".