Common superhero types you've never seen in play

[Nothere]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Well a large part of the problem makingt an effective one trick pony is the sheer number of points. To continue with Cyclops

 

Standard hero 350

 

Cyclops regular but highly trained guy with eb

 

eb 60 points not counting disads

50 or so points in stats

 

about 110 used leaving 240 points for just skills and talents.

 

Result champions cyclops suddenly picks up a couple of extra powers

[megaplayboy]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Well, comic book characters, unlike PCs in a comic book-based RPG, do not have to be "balanced". Cyclops, for example, might be a 350 point hero with a

20d6 EB at half END cost and personal immunity(150 points). He might have relatively "soft" defenses, no enhanced senses, some minimal mental defense, some tactical training, levels with EB and maybe a Power skill related to "optic blast tricks". Once Cyke has 100xp, he might have more skills, martial arts, and maybe his EB has expanded into a 3 slot multipower. But it might not be any more powerful than when he was 350 points. The minute you, as a player or GM, start thinking, "well, this is a 350 point, 60 active point campaign, so when I'm converting this character, well he has an energy blast, so it's therefore a 12d6 EB, and he has all these extra points left over, so let's just add things that seem at least remotely plausible for him and will 'balance' him out", you have left behind "pure emulation" and are in the realm of "conforming to the spirit but not the letter" of the comic book character. Nothing wrong with it, just pointing that out.

[Markdoc]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Well' date=' comic book characters, unlike PCs in a comic book-based RPG, [b']do not have to be "balanced"[/b]. Cyclops, for example, might be a 350 point hero with a

20d6 EB at half END cost and personal immunity(150 points). He might have relatively "soft" defenses, no enhanced senses, some minimal mental defense, some tactical training, levels with EB and maybe a Power skill related to "optic blast tricks". Once Cyke has 100xp, he might have more skills, martial arts, and maybe his EB has expanded into a 3 slot multipower. But it might not be any more powerful than when he was 350 points. The minute you, as a player or GM, start thinking, "well, this is a 350 point, 60 active point campaign, so when I'm converting this character, well he has an energy blast, so it's therefore a 12d6 EB, and he has all these extra points left over, so let's just add things that seem at least remotely plausible for him and will 'balance' him out", you have left behind "pure emulation" and are in the realm of "conforming to the spirit but not the letter" of the comic book character. Nothing wrong with it, just pointing that out.

 

Right. Cyclops was frequently referred to in the early comics as "by far the most powerful of the X-men" and in one scene where he and Wolvie are facing off against a Sentinel, wolvie is about to get all stabby, when Cyclops lets rip and turns it into a smouldering hole in the ground. Wolvie says "Oh yeah - now I remember why you're team leader ..." Like all X-characters, he suffers from plot powers: sometimes he has a 20d6 AP EB and sometimes he has an 8d6 EB.

 

Our first two Champions campaigns had plenty of swiss-army knife characters: power-armour suits, Cyborgs, master martial artists, flying energy projectors (with forcefields). For our third (very much inspired by the X-verse) we actually chose to make a team of all more-or-less one trick ponies (called The NuMen). There was:

Sister Morphine - mentalist (no flight, psychokenesis, etc: just mental illusions, mind control and Ego Blast)

Nexus - duplicator (Duplication, some extra speed, minor precognitive powers.)

Mirrorman - mimic (Had a VPP to allow him to mimic the powers of those he touched)

Another martial artist (the name escapes me) with minor energy powers

and ... most notorious of all ...

Wing. He had wings. He could fly. That's it. He could fly really well, though!

 

It was a pretty fun team (well, apart from Wing ) - designed to tackle minor level threats, and having to think your way through problems instead of simply using power X was actually stimulating rather than a problem.

 

cheers, Mark

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I don't believe a single-powered character has to be a "one trick pony." In fact, in my games I prefer to see characters that have a single power focus but that are built for maximum enjoyment and survivability.

 

Let's take Cyclops for example.

Only has an eye beam - Yes. One trick pony - I'm not so sure...

 

What can he do with that eye beam? He can narrow the focus of it down to the point of a welding torch. He can use it at various strengths to blow adversaries away, he can open it up at a wide angle to attack multiple foes, he can bounce his beam from target to target with incredible accuracy, he can use the beam to block incoming attacks. He's slowed his own decent with his beam while falling and has done so for others as well (though it might have hurt a bit). And more.

 

Sounds like a really nice Multipower, a superior Power Skill roll and a lot of great non-combat and combat skills to me.

 

Add to that a super suit with some rPD/rED - AWESOME!

 

Cyclops is considered a one-trick pony because all he has is a blast. He can't fly, or manipulate the energy to make shapes or somesuch. Yes, he has lots of variants on the blast, but all he does is blast. This is pretty much the definition of the one-trick pony archetype as given in the Ultimate Energy Projector.

 

I think the X-uniforms are lightly armored, plus give him something like 10 or 15 PD/ED Armor combat-luck style, and there you go.

[RexMundi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Cyclops is considered a one-trick pony because all he has is a blast. He can't fly, or manipulate the energy to make shapes or somesuch. Yes, he has lots of variants on the blast, but all he does is blast. This is pretty much the definition of the one-trick pony archetype as given in the Ultimate Energy Projector.

 

I think the X-uniforms are lightly armored, plus give him something like 10 or 15 PD/ED Armor combat-luck style, and there you go.

 

No where near armor like at all for those uniforms. They get explained in many an issue, especially the training uniforms. Just Unstable Molecule standard Issue. Keeps one from running around nekid or burning up a costume. That's about it.... Nothing more protective then a leather trench coat on that team.

 

~Rex

[RexMundi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Another Build I'd like to see more of.

 

Darkness using characters. Not just, Blasters with the SFX of a Dark Bolt of power, but actual Darkness...... Guys like The Shroud (one of my favorites), Dr. Mid-Nite, that kinda thing..... I build 'em, but I rarely see them.

 

~Rex

[megaplayboy]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Another Build I'd like to see more of.

 

Darkness using characters. Not just, Blasters with the SFX of a Dark Bolt of power, but actual Darkness...... Guys like The Shroud (one of my favorites), Dr. Mid-Nite, that kinda thing..... I build 'em, but I rarely see them.

 

~Rex

 

Sometimes I think certain character types aren't in evidence more frequently is because of bookkeeping/logistical headaches...for a darkness user, or forcewall/barrier user, you gotta bust out the pente stones (or whatever) to mark off the radius/location of the power. For the barrier you have to track the remaining body, etc. Also comes up with adjustment power-using characters. If it becomes a hassle to keep track of, or mark off on the map, some players would rather not bother.

[RexMundi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Only seems to be a Hassle though, when the builds become overly complicated in order to "Be Competitive" .....Time for some character build examples methinks, a build off of "what would be cool to see" in a game. 400 point standard 6e guys or so ......

 

~Rex...goes to work on a Darkness User that's not complicated.

[Tasha]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Like I say in these conversion posts. When you change the media that A character appears in, you have to change stuff about the character so they conform to that media's rules/ limitations.

 

So you take a character out of a Comic book and onto a movie screen. You end up with costumes that aren't quite as brite or quite as flimsy looking. That's because the standard indestructable spandex doesn't look right in Live action.

 

So when you take a Comic character and place them in a RPG you have to make changes for playability.

 

You end up adding rDefenses because those people who hate muties fire guns that shoot Killing attack bullets. No player wants his character to take a ton of body or to die. So One thing that players do is equip their character with as much rDef as the GM will allow.

 

Also, characters who work on a time limit (ie Aquawhimp needs to drink a glass of water every hour or start to take body), aren't very attractive to Players. They know that there will be circumstances where they won't be able to get that glass of water, and Players hate to see their characters die due to missing that thing. In fact, most players won't usually take Susceptibilities or Vulnerabilities. Those complications are the last thing players take.

 

One trick ponies with one power (ie I am winged guy and I fly! Aren't I boring?). Who in their right mind makes a character who can't participate in combat? Most people play Champions because they want to be in combat. People who don't have a movement power usually get one after playing in one combat against people who do fly or at least have more movement than 12m a Phase.

 

OAF users, I actually do see often enough. Though most times the OAF people have something else they can do (ie Martial Arts) for when their Gun/Sword/Bow focus is stolen by the opposition.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

'One Power' in game terms and 'one power' in character terms are two completely different things. Cyclops has 'one power'. Hell, The Flash has 'one power', but few people are going to say he's boring or can't participate in combat. Someone with wings could be a great movethrough/moveby machine, wing buffetting, gusts of wind from flapping ... and he'd still, in character, have 'one power'.

[phoenix240]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Right. Cyclops was frequently referred to in the early comics as "by far the most powerful of the X-men" and in one scene where he and Wolvie are facing off against a Sentinel' date=' wolvie is about to get all stabby, when Cyclops lets rip and turns it into a smouldering hole in the ground. Wolvie says "[i']Oh yeah - now I remember why you're team leader ...[/i]" Like all X-characters, he suffers from plot powers: sometimes he has a 20d6 AP EB and sometimes he has an 8d6 EB.

 

Its fair to say that about most comic book period, IMO and not nessecarily a bad thing but its largely true.

[phoenix240]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

'One Power' in game terms and 'one power' in character terms are two completely different things. Cyclops has 'one power'. Hell' date=' The Flash has 'one power', but few people are going to say he's boring or can't participate in combat. Someone with wings could be a great movethrough/moveby machine, wing buffetting, gusts of wind from flapping ... and he'd still, in character, have 'one power'.[/quote']

 

This is what I was getting at earlier said much better.

 

Edit: Unfortantely, I cannot rep Crosshaircollie at the moment.

[RexMundi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Indeed.....took care of the Rep for you..... And building. Need to make pictures first.

 

~Rex

[Ice9]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

It depends on what you mean by "one power". I've seen a number of characters that had only one superhuman power, but they supplemented it with equipment, skills, martial arts, combat luck, and so forth. I don't think I've seen any characters that had literally normal human stats outside of one area though.

 

AP caps are a part of that. One build I saw for Cyclops had his eye beams as a high-DC Blast with an auto-reset Trigger (to represent the fact that he projects a continuous stream of energy, and it will hit anyone who gets into his LoS), total cost almost 200 points. Now with "one power" like that, you naturally have less points for everything else, and you've always got that niche. If Cyclops' blast is 12d6, and so is Iceman's ice bolt ... but Iceman also has a bunch of other abilities, then players who pick the former are going to be feeling a bit sidekick-like.

[RexMundi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Folks are really over thinking things.....hence, gonna post some characters in a bit .....

 

~Rex

[Bloodstone]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

A random thought to spark discussion. What are common things you see in superhero comics that you've never (or almost never) seen in play in your Champions games? Primarily on the PC side, though missing villain concepts is fine too.

 

1. Telepaths who are not also telekinetics. They're fairly common in comics (Prof. X and Psylocke probably being the most prominent), but I've never seen a telepath without a TK shield and flight. Related ...

 

2. Energy projectors who don't fly and/or have forcefields. I don't ever recall seeing a grounded energy projector in any games I've been in for the last 20 years or so. No Havok or Cyclops, always Green Lantern or Human Torch ...

 

3. Stretchy characters. I've only seen one.

 

Oddly, we have all three of these in my game.

 

Jason is one of the worlds few telepaths that can both receive and project thoughts. In this world, reading minds is incredibly rare, while mental attacks, illusions, mind control and other forms of projective TP much more common. Jason is pretty hosed against mindless things or targets that are not of the human class of mind, so he does carry a Plasmoid Shield (which can act as a defensive shield or an entangle).

 

James is an electricity blaster, though we have seen hints he could have magnetic and radio wave based powers too. He theoretically can learn to fly via magnetic levitation, but hadn't done so in over two years of play. One of the top NPC's in that game is very much an homage to Cyclops. He has a few other vision based powers as well, but can't fly or project force fields or anything like that. He's not total glass cannon though. Just like Cyclops, he's a pretty bad ass martial artist as well.

 

Lin is a primarily a bouncy stretcher, though she's started to figure out how to do more complex stuff, such as imitate other people. Mostly, she goes around complaining how gross her powers are while screaming "I'm MELTING! OMG!! SO, gross!"

 

Two things I know I never get to play myself:

 

- Power Duplicators/Absorbers

- Super versatile Multiform users

 

I've played some animal metamorphs, but no one will let me play something like Ben 10, Rogue or Mimic.

 

I understand this one though, as it primarily comes down to fear of one player stepping on other players toes... and a few GM's have not been fans of VPP's either, so that one's pretty difficult to do...

[RexMundi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I would play this guy without a hiccup.......Yet, no one I know other then myself would consider even attempting it, heh. Even put a picture in his .hdc....

 

~Rex

[Bloodstone]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I'd change the build slightly, but I would play an Angel type character in a heart beat.

 

Though I do really like him in his current incarnation where he switches between his Angel and Archangel personas/forms.

 

What can I say, I like the visuals on the metal wings, as well as several of the power stunts associated with them.

 

My first real Champions character was a demonic brick that used his bullet proof wings in similar defensive actions

[RexMundi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I'd change the build slightly, but I would play an Angel type character in a heart beat.

 

Though I do really like him in his current incarnation where he switches between his Angel and Archangel personas/forms.

 

What can I say, I like the visuals on the metal wings, as well as several of the power stunts associated with them.

 

My first real Champions character was a demonic brick that used his bullet proof wings in similar defensive actions

 

Pretty much arrived at those numbers based on his OHOTMU write up and some other Marvel Material. One of my favorite Marvel Characters before they Iron Aged him.

 

~Rex....coulda tossed Extra Limbs wings on him but I tend to hand that out for free for concept .....easy fix if it needs it.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I would play this guy without a hiccup.......Yet, no one I know other then myself would consider even attempting it, heh. Even put a picture in his .hdc....

 

~Rex

You could probably save a few points with "Usable As Gliding +1/4" on his Flight. They'd also react to Adjustment powers the same. Could also Unified Power them separately.

[RexMundi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

You could probably save a few points with "Usable As Gliding +1/4" on his Flight. They'd also react to Adjustment powers the same. Could also Unified Power them separately.

 

They are Unified. I didn't want the Alternate Movement on that thing because I wanted to keep the AP below a dc 14 cap. The Sheets full of Coulda....but it doesn't NEED to .....Insanely effective character if played correctly. It took time to make the picture in the .hdc file. It took like, 3 minutes to make the rest of the sheet.

 

~Rex

[GoldenAge]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I would play this guy without a hiccup.......Yet, no one I know other then myself would consider even attempting it, heh. Even put a picture in his .hdc....

 

~Rex

 

Really? No one???? I would OWN this character!!!!!

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I'd let you play something like Ben 10, certainly, Bloodstone, though I'd require the forms to be within campaign maxima.

[phoenix240]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I confess that as a GM I am leery of Multiform builds. Power Mimics and essentially comic VPPs. The characters like that I've had submitted have been the type that would turn most games (unless I really bent over backwarrds) into the Adventures of Captain Omni and his Marginally useful sidekicks. :-/

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

To follow this up, of the original X-Men:

 

Cyclops - no defensive powers

Angel - no defensive or attack powers (move by/through is the only option)

Beast - close, but no rDEF

Iceman - OK, he had ice armor and attack powers so that's one

Marvel Girl - she had TK, but no defensive powers

 

Add Havok (no defense, like Cyclops)

Lorna Dane (well rounded magnetic character)

 

and we have two of seven characters with a balanced power suite like you need in Champions.

 

All-New X-Men?

 

Cyclops again

Thunderbird - no rDEF (created to die anyway)

Banshee - no defensive powers (we'd give him a force field)

Wolverine - at least he has his insane Regen/recovery

Sunfire - no defensive powers (we'd give him a force field)

Nightcrawler - no attack or defense powers

Colossus - balanced brick with rDEF

Storm - no defensive powers (we'd probably give her a force field too)

Phoenix - with all the add-on's probably a balanced/practical Hero character - but that's a major upgrade from Marvel Girl

 

Kitty Pryde - just her Phasing power (no attacks)

 

We could go on, of course, but the fact is that Champions as it has developed practically requires a character to have fairly high attacks, fairly high defenses and some level of resistant defenses to be competitive, and that requires a lot of modification and/or rationalization (like giving many X-Men a bulletproof costume and/or high levels of Martial Arts training) to shoehorn them into the model.

 

Honestly....this is what Combat Luck was created for...at least on the defensive end. I'd say just about all of these characters would have it. As far as attacks, most of them DO have significant HtH training...that's one of the thing they're at the school for to learn. What do you think the Danger Room is for?