"British Only": How much of a Limitation?

[Enforcer84]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

My first question would be why does it only affect the British? That seems really ... weird' date=' and since I don't want to have to figure out whether or not everybody in the entire game world is British, I'd probably just say 'No, that's too big a pain in the butt, veto'.[/quote']

 

My guess?

 

King Arthur Powers, Spirit of the Union Jack, etc.

 

someone whose powers are granted only over those of his sovereign land.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

Ancestry.

 

This leaves out approximately 20% (by an informal reckoning) of the population of the UK. One of the consequences of the Imperial era in Britain is that many people;s families originated in other parts of the Empire but are second-or-third-generation British. The result is a mix of backgrounds from West Indian and Indian/Pakistani to African and Cantonese (from Hong Kong). Although there are still hard-line racists in Britain who hate and fear the immigrants, thinking they aren't "really British", the country has really gotten much more cosmopolitan and diverse over the last 50 years, mostly in beneficial ways. The British soldier's MRE packet is more likely to include lamb curry than anything else, as lamb can be consumed by all three major religious groups in the UK -- Christian, Hindu, and Muslim -- while traditional British staples of pork or beef cannot.

 

As a matter of personal preference, I would not build or allow a power with varying effect based on race. Biologically speaking race is a nonsense concept, and a campaign that places a heavy emphasis on it will usually go south remarkably quickly.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

This leaves out approximately 20% (by an informal reckoning) of the population of the UK. One of the consequences of the Imperial era in Britain is that many people;s families originated in other parts of the Empire but are second-or-third-generation British. The result is a mix of backgrounds from West Indian and Indian/Pakistani to African and Cantonese (from Hong Kong). Although there are still hard-line racists in Britain who hate and fear the immigrants, thinking they aren't "really British", the country has really gotten much more cosmopolitan and diverse over the last 50 years, mostly in beneficial ways. The British soldier's MRE packet is more likely to include lamb curry than anything else, as lamb can be consumed by all three major religious groups in the UK -- Christian, Hindu, and Muslim -- while traditional British staples of pork or beef cannot.

 

As a matter of personal preference, I would not build or allow a power with varying effect based on race. Biologically speaking race is a nonsense concept, and a campaign that places a heavy emphasis on it will usually go south remarkably quickly.

 

I'd rep Mr. Hopcroft for that last sentence in bold, but I "must spread rep..." etc.

[phoenix240]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

My first question would be why does it only affect the British? That seems really ... weird' date=' and since I don't want to have to figure out whether or not everybody in the entire game world is British, I'd probably just say 'No, that's too big a pain in the butt, veto'.[/quote']

 

I'd guess it was some sort of ancestral curse or effect based on the spirit of the land or blood of the people or something similar. We have a character in our games with a similar power in our game based on being the "Spirit of America". It only effects citizens of the US, born, naturalized or "in spirit".

[Tasha]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

Sounded low. Last I heard one in four Americans have some Irish ancestry, including Hispanics. My town of Tucson was founded by an Irishman who was in the army of Spain at the time. He left Ireland for Spain because of the Troubles, and he was far from the only one. Lots of Hispanic-surname Americans have some Irish ancestry as well.

 

And everyone's Irish on St Patrick's Day!

 

[edit] Somehow I never noticed before how much Don Hugo looks like Professor Snape.

 

Also when dealing with the Irish there's a great percentage of them that don't Identify as BEING British and will take great exception to you saying they are. Technically only Northern Ireland is "British" and again many of the Irish there still don't think of themselves as anything but Irish.

 

If the power is magical, perhaps it could be tied to Length of time on British soil along with Identity. ie A Welsh Nationalist may only see themself as being Welsh and not British, while you could have a guy that has spent 30 years living in Africa and His identity is totally tied into being British (ie Stereotypical old British Gentleman ex military)

[Ragitsu]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

-1 to -2, huh? -1 1/2 might end up being a nice compromise.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

This may well be one of those cases where instead of 'it happens this often, therefore it's this limitation' should be reversed. Set the limitation value to whatever you want; that's how often it will get in your way.

[Zeropoint]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

Mental effects on British characters only? The image that comes to my mind when I try to picture such an effect is the character pulling out a cup of tea . . . and adding non-dairy creamer.

[death tribble]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

FIEND !

 

You add milk to tea. Non dairy creamer is for coffee

[death tribble]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

I would make the point that you are British if you come from Britain. Once you emigrate and get into a first generation you start losing the ancestry. So by two to three generations down the line you are of the country you are in. So American or Australian as that is where some of this may come from. Or nowadays Spain.

[Ragitsu]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

I would make the point that you are British if you come from Britain. Once you emigrate and get into a first generation you start losing the ancestry. So by two to three generations down the line you are of the country you are in. So American or Australian as that is where some of this may come from. Or nowadays Spain.

 

How about diminished power against diminished ancestry?

[death tribble]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

That would work.

 

But you also have to take into account whether people still consider themselves to be British. Certainly the Scots and Irish still consider themselves to be of that ilk rather than say British.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

The question remains ... do you really want to have to determine this for every character this one comes in contact with?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

That would work.

 

But you also have to take into account whether people still consider themselves to be British. Certainly the Scots and Irish still consider themselves to be of that ilk rather than say British.

 

Which gets back to many of the questions posted upthread - what benchmark does the actual power use?

 

The question remains ... do you really want to have to determine this for every character this one comes in contact with?

 

That's the big issue to me - first, how is it determined and, second, how big a hassle will it be to make that determination during the game?

[Ranxerox]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

-1 to -2' date=' huh? -1 1/2 might end up being a nice compromise.[/quote']

 

If only one person in three the character goes against meets the campaign definition of British, then -1 1/2 is appropriate.

[phoenix240]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

If only one person in three the character goes against meets the campaign definition of British' date=' then -1 1/2 is appropriate.[/quote']

 

And those Powers are his best/only attack options. If he has other that are as good or almost as good I'd reduce the Limitation value.

[Ranxerox]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

Why? A nerfed power is a nerfed power. Why should the character get fewer points for the nerfing just because they can still function? The guidelines for Limited Powers talk about how much the the limitation reduces the effectiveness of the power, not the character.

[phoenix240]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

Why?

 

It isn't as limiting if my 10d6 Blast only effects blondes if I have another 10d6 Blast or even a 9 1/2d6 Blast that will work on them instead of no other viable attack option. Limitation values should, IMO, be baed on the entire character and the setting not taken in isolation. One character loses nothing or not much at all (they can't do Multi Attacks using that Blast on blondes, for instance), the other loses the ability to combat the opponent directly at all. It seems fair that the latter character would save more than the former. YMMV.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

Ancestry.

 

And by that, he means Teeth

[Bloodstone]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

It seems fair that the latter character would save more than the former. YMMV.

 

The later character does save more.

 

The character that buys two blasts so that they can MPA blonds should certainly pay more for that option.

 

After all, they bought Blast twice...

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

Why? A nerfed power is a nerfed power. Why should the character get fewer points for the nerfing just because they can still function? The guidelines for Limited Powers talk about how much the the limitation reduces the effectiveness of the power' date=' not the character.[/quote']

 

It's the same thing as trying to claim 'only in intense magnetic fields' as a -2 limitation when you, or someone you associate with frequently, can generate intense magnetic fields. It becomes a lot less limiting, therefore you don't get as big of a point break.

[dmjalund]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

It's the same thing as trying to claim 'only in intense magnetic fields' as a -2 limitation when you' date=' or someone you associate with frequently, can generate intense magnetic fields. It becomes a lot less limiting, therefore you don't get as big of a point break.[/quote']Have them encounter a villain with the same shtick, which allows HIM to be overpowered, but only when fighting those two guys

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

Have them encounter a villain with the same shtick' date=' which allows HIM to be overpowered, but only when fighting those two guys[/quote']

 

Doesn't really prove anything, though, since the GM could give the villain the same level of power with no limitations at all. As my first Champions GM put it, 'Silly GM, point budgets are for PCs!'

[Ranxerox]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

It's the same thing as trying to claim 'only in intense magnetic fields' as a -2 limitation when you' date=' or someone you associate with frequently, can generate intense magnetic fields. It becomes a lot less limiting, therefore you don't get as big of a point break.[/quote']

 

Your example speaks directly to the question of how limiting that particular power limitation and as such is relevant to how much the power should cost. pheonix240 statement isn't about the specific power but about the character as a whole and I feel that is irrelevant.

 

It isn't as limiting if my 10d6 Blast only effects blondes if I have another 10d6 Blast or even a 9 1/2d6 Blast that will work on them instead of no other viable attack option. Limitation values should' date=' IMO, be baed on the entire character and the setting not taken in isolation. One character loses nothing or not much at all (they can't do Multi Attacks using that Blast on blondes, for instance), the other loses the ability to combat the opponent directly at all. It seems fair that the latter character would save more than the former. YMMV.[/quote']

 

My mileage does vary. Let's take your example about the EB that only works on blonds. Lets say that only about one third of the people that the character will be dealing with are blonds but using your logic since he has another energy blast at his disposal lets only give him a -1/2 limitation. Now let pit him against the the supervillain trio the Covergirls. The Covergirls are made up of a blond, a brunette and a redhead, so using one attack action on each of them he could do up to 40d6 (10d6 on the redhead, 10d6 on the brunette, and 20d6 on the blond). Now lets say instead of bothering with the "only works on blonds limitation" he simply dumped the 33 points you were going to charge him for the EB into his non-limited EB. Now for the the same 83 points you were going to charge him for the two energy blasts he now has a single EB that does 16.5 d6. Now against the Covergirls in an attack on each of them instead of doing 40d6 total, he is doing 49.5d6. Damage of 49.5d6 is a good deal more than 40d6 so our hero comes out way ahead in by not getting the limitation even though the make up of the Covergirls reflects the general game population of 1/3 blonds. This leads me to believe that you are undervaluing the limitation.

[phoenix240]

Re: "British Only": How much of a Limitation?

 

My mileage does vary..

 

I figured as much.