Tasha Posted September 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Sadly' date=' the one example I've been exposed to is working hard to make it All About the Men in the fandom -- even though the target audience is young girls (My Little Pony: FiM). And there's been some horrifying incidents of creepy harassment at these so-called "BronyCons". "But us guys aren't all LIKE that!" Fine. What are you doing to stop the ones that ARE?! Especially when there are children involved now... Oh I didn't notice that you had 2 different URLs hiding in your sentence. Yeah that's pretty bad stuff happening at those cons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities It's really about the very annoying phenomena of how women are treated in Geek/Nerd Spaces(Communities). It's a problem that is honestly prevalent in any stereotypically Male hobby/interest. To be treated as the bubble head who can't possibly know anything. Believe me, that I also see this in the Hot Rodding/ Car enthusiast community. I have to admit that it's fun to blow their mind when I not only understand what they are talking about, but I can show that I know more than they do. It's really annoying to have to prove myself, when I see males who are assumed to know what they are talking about. Perhaps it's because with the Women's movement in the 70's and how women have become more equal in society. We as a gender are starting to show our interest in areas that are outside traditional women's interests. When new people start to appear in a community that community pushes back. Someday I would also love to have a discussion about Racism in Geek Communities. Being basically white, I don't have the experience to actually talk about this from any point of view but as one of the Privileged. That would be a different thread and I dont want to derail this IMHO very important thread. I have similar impressions, but in different communities, and comparing communities can be eye-opening. I've been a gamer for a Long Time, but I've never been much of a con-goer, and the only on-line gaming community I participate in is this one, where the problems under discussion in this thread are not absent but AFAIK this community doesn't quite provide the horror stories that have been linked in at several points. Because of my limited involvement, I don't perceive myself as being someone with a lot of leverage in altering the reprehensible stuff described here. I wouldn't tolerate it if I saw it being done, but I don't get out enough to have seen it being done any more recently than the early 1980s. OTOH, I've been a professional scientist most of my adult life. I belong to the professional astronomy community, and now I am at the periphery of the professional physics community. I perceive myself as having more influence and more at stake in making those communities more gender-equitable, and I've done some things in my career that I think shows that commitment. I see real differences in how enlightened the astronomy and physics communities are vis-a-vis gender issues. Bluntly, physics is horrible and doesn't seem to be making any progress; I am not even sure that most of the physics community would even acknowledge in confidence that there was an issue. Astronomy's not so bad and the signs of improvement are unmistakeable albeit slower than one would want. (Race is an entirely separate issue, and I despair of that being even close to alleviated in my lifetime.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
input.jack Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Thats so odd. Id have thought that the fields of science would value a person's ideas above all other considerations. I am...disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted September 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Thats so odd. Id have thought that the fields of science would value a person's ideas above all other considerations. I am...disappointed. I think that Science is recovering from having a Ton of Old guys that think they know all of the answers in their fields. Like the US, Younger minds unencumbered with the current orthodoxy are slowly changing the culture. I am sure that the remains of the Old Guard tend to be very conservative in thinking and "old fashoned" when it comes to views of Gender and Race. Changing the culture, and moving change along a bit faster is part of why threads like this one are important. People don't tend to see things in inequality until it's thrust in their face. Some people can see the problem and become part of the solution. Others, perhaps fearful of change cling to the way things have been. Lets just hope we can help everyone see the problems and can start to help change things for the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Sociology of a profession, including the profession of science, is a field unto itself. Turnover of people really is important, and if the new people entering the field don't push the social bounds of the community, then the community's social bounds won't change rapidly. There's never a strong reason for people at the top of a pyramid to push for change; rather, there's a tendency to feel approval for a system which has delivered them there. So the change has to be driven by new members. And if the new members have pretty much the same attitudes as the old ones, change doesn't happen. For reasons that I have speculated about (but my guesses are strictly my own guesses), astronomy has the image of being a field where women are welcome and respected, while physics doesn't have that image. So women are approaching 50% of new-minted astronomy PhDs (I put it that way because I think it recently broke 40%, but I am not being successful in finding the definitive statistics at the moment), while physics is down at 20%. And I think that image is as important as anything else, and it's something that the individual science communities don't have direct control over. EDIT: Gah, not as good as I thought. 34% women in the 2010 astronomy PhD crop, the last for which I can find numbers. It was 40% in 2009. As field, astronomy is really small, so that difference is like two people, but characterizing things as "40%" is overly optimistic. Still, it's better than it was. "Back in my day" the mid-80's, it was 12%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Sadly' date=' the one example I've been exposed to is working hard to make it All About the Men in the fandom -- even though the target audience is young girls (My Little Pony: FiM). And there's been some horrifying incidents of creepy harassment at these so-called "BronyCons". I'm can be pretty crass sometimes IRL. And I've been known to hang out in the underbelly of the internet, so I'm well aware of some of the alternate entertainment that elements of this particular fanbase are drawn to... But at the point where you drop rape jokes and N bombs in the presence of children, you need a serious wake up call. Quite possibly a five fingered one... This is internet trolling, 4chan browsing, youtube coment wars brought into real life. Sounds like an Epic Fail by secirty and con staffers too. And I probably would have gelded the Brony in the second link... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities [h=2]An Open Letter to Convention-Going Butt Photographers[/h] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I'll admit to taking a "butt" shot while in Yellowstone. Not a great photo, and it was because of this girl in high heels, ruffled skirt, sparkly hose, and other fashion attire that would of been more in place in a night club instead of on a hiking trail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Why Are Women So Negative About the "Pickup Artist" Community? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Why Are Women So Negative About the "Pickup Artist" Community? Why wouldn't they be? From the male side of the counter, pickup artists seem mostly to be dysfunctional, deceptive douchebags. I can only imagine how much worse they'd look if they were actually hitting on me. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities ... and we won't even go into what the fathers of teen-age daughters think of them ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Probably "target practice." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
input.jack Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Yeah, it really reads like all the PUA "instruction" teaches a guy to do is to ignore the normal boundaries of conversation, and BECOME a creepy, space-invading cretin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Probably "target practice." Too impersonal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I just thought I toss this one out here: It appears Tasha is a bit ahead of the curve. This next story of sexism and harassment is from... the front page of CNN. http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/06/living/street-harassment/index.html?hpt=hp_c1 (CNN) -- Head down, look straight ahead. Earbuds in, volume off. Walk quickly, but with purpose. Don't make eye contact unless you need to. Look behind you every few blocks, make sure you're not being followed. Don't be obvious. It's not nighttime. You're not in a known drug zone, or the sketchy part of town. This is simply how many women steel themselves when walking down a city street in broad daylight, or even when boarding crowded public transportation. Why? Because many women, regardless of age, weight, or appearance, say they've heard something along the lines of "Hey baby, you want some of this?" or "I like what I see" or "nice ass." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted October 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities [h=1]What Women Want (In Female Video Game Protagonists)[/h]http://www.themarysue.com/what-women-want-in-female-video-game-protagonists/ Anita Sarkeesian (remember her? http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/internet/2012/07/what-online-harassment-looks]What online harassment looks like ) has provoked some great discussion in Geek Communities. The above link from The Mary Sue answers some questions asked by another blogger about what women want to see in Woman protagonists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted October 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities From Bell of Lost Souls (A Mini Wargamming blog aggregator) comes Women and Wargamming - the Enigma http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/10/women-and-wargaming-enigma.html Asking why more women don't play Warhammer 40k and why women seem to be playing games from Other companies. The Comments column is enlightening and sometimes a bit depressing. Yeah, Tasha with the WoW Deathknight Avatar is me, also the otherposts under another name with the same avatar is also me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities [h=3]“I am the Lorax, and I speak for the creeps!”[/h] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities “I am the Lorax' date=' and I speak for the creeps!”[/url'] Must spread rep... etc. Good read. It's very much in the same vein as a lot of the earlier links in this thread, but it really brings home the experience of a woman being hit on incessantly. I don't think many men can put themselves in those shoes, but that article comes very close to it. Also, reading the blog entry for the "just one ally" link (the Blogspot one). It makes a very good point. I'm usually the guy who speaks up, but I've seen the waiting for someone else to speak up effect many times. I've never really understood people who don't speak up, but they seem to be the vast majority. The comments section is well worth reading on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities [h=3]“I am the Lorax' date=' and I speak for the creeps!”[/url'][/h] There's a very good essay/rant linked from there. It's four years old, but new to me. Long, but a very valuable read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
input.jack Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities This is all really good stuff. *Slowly tries to evolve* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities [h=1]Creep Shots and Predditors and Cat-calls, Oh My[/h] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities [h=1]Creep Shots and Predditors and Cat-calls' date=' Oh My[/url'][/h] Yep. I hate the phrase “Hey, technically, it’s legal!” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I'm amused at how quickly they shriek about their rights to privacy when it's THEM being outed as freaks. As a relatively noob redditer, I find some of the subreddits to be distasteful in the extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities More "social media" I'm glad I never got into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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