The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

[Enforcer84]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

That sounds like a lot of he said she said and conjecture. But It may very well be true.

[Cassandra]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

Bad about Marvel

 

Changing Ms. Marvel's costume and calling her Captain Marvel. First of all they have a perfectly good Captain Marvel, the son of Mar-Vell Second, her costume is fantastic and doesn't need changing.

[Cassandra]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

Didn't Cyclops go from Lois Land to Liz Lemon? Must be an "LL" thing.

[RexMundi]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

Bad about Marvel

 

Changing Ms. Marvel's costume and calling her Captain Marvel. First of all they have a perfectly good Captain Marvel, the son of Mar-Vell Second, her costume is fantastic and doesn't need changing.

 

Very much agreed. But, the Marvel Unholy Cabal already wrecked Genis Vell, and then the inane Avengers vs X-Men wrecks Mar-Vell, and they still can't seem to recall that Captain Marvel only really works for two characters, and ones in a different company.

 

Ms. Marvel's last look was perfect. The Warbird look was not so good (lotsa pads. Knees elbows shoulders etc) but the 2006 look forward was perfect. This Captain Marvel/Miracle Man love child look is just lazy and bad. So Bad Marvel and Bad DC for these last few intertwined unnecessary and unwanted changes.

 

~Rex

[Cassandra]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

I think as gamers we should just build are own versions of our favorite characters and ignore the companies work.

 

Franking the Super Hero Squad seems to be getting Marvel right at the moment.

 

Ms. Marvel is called "Crankypants" on the show.

[st barbara]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

I think as gamers we should just build are own versions of our favorite characters and ignore the companies work.

 

Franking the Super Hero Squad seems to be getting Marvel right at the moment.

 

Ms. Marvel is called "Crankypants" on the show.

 

Hmm "Captain Crankypants" ! Works for me .

[Psybolt]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

Bad about Marvel

 

Changing Ms. Marvel's costume and calling her Captain Marvel. First of all they have a perfectly good Captain Marvel, the son of Mar-Vell Second, her costume is fantastic and doesn't need changing.

 

Very much agreed. But, the Marvel Unholy Cabal already wrecked Genis Vell, and then the inane Avengers vs X-Men wrecks Mar-Vell, and they still can't seem to recall that Captain Marvel only really works for two characters, and ones in a different company.

 

Ms. Marvel's last look was perfect. The Warbird look was not so good (lotsa pads. Knees elbows shoulders etc) but the 2006 look forward was perfect. This Captain Marvel/Miracle Man love child look is just lazy and bad. So Bad Marvel and Bad DC for these last few intertwined unnecessary and unwanted changes.

 

~Rex

 

Have either of you read Captain Marvel#1? Or do you just hear about changes and immediately gripe? Because the book is pretty good and it addressed all of the complaints that you have about the changes.

[Zen Archer]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

Franking the Super Hero Squad seems to be getting Marvel right at the moment.

 

Just to show how opinions can differ, I'd easily put "Super Hero Squad" on the "Bad" list. I've never understood the appeal of that show.

 

Something both Marvel and kid-oriented I'd put on the "Good" list would be Chris Giarusso's old Mini-Marvels.

[Twilight]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

Just to show how opinions can differ, I'd easily put "Super Hero Squad" on the "Bad" list. I've never understood the appeal of that show.

 

Something both Marvel and kid-oriented I'd put on the "Good" list would be Chris Giarusso's old Mini-Marvels.

 

Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and The Spectacular Spider-Man would also be on the good list for Marvel cartoons. Cancelling them both is, naturally, on the bad list.

[RexMundi]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

Have either of you read Captain Marvel#1? Or do you just hear about changes and immediately gripe? Because the book is pretty good and it addressed all of the complaints that you have about the changes.

 

Bought it (Since Ms. Marvel is one of my Uninterrupted lines of books, been a fan of the characters (both) since I was a little kid....). Read it. Gave it some good points in the other thread. The Art will throw some folks off, as well as the trouncing of the Absorbing Man with a fashion accessory. I don't mind the art even if there were panels where you could hold them up next to Secret Invasion and go "Is Captain America a Skrull?", and the writing isn't horrible. The costume and name change though is a bad Idea, especially in light of past continuity and a dozen other things I could mention. Agree or disagree, comics are something I know more then a bit about, and this Idea for Captain Marvel ranks right up there with Jeph Loeb and Thunderbolt Ross being the Red Hulk, and Joe Quesada and One More Day and that's before I get into the Bendis Pile but you need a shovel for that.

 

~Rex

[Greywind]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

The Ms. Marvel/Warbird look has become iconic for Carol Danvers. I hated the Binary story/changes. She changed out of the Capt. Marvel clone-costume for a reason, into the black with gold. When she stopped being Binary, she went back to that.

 

And where she should have stayed. Change for the sake of change is stupid.

[RexMundi]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

Besides us Dedicated Ms. Marvel fans not only had to suffer though one of the flakiest X-Men stealing all her stuff, we had to put up with THIS look after the Binary Bad Hair days.....

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44027[/ATTACH]

 

And that Outfit, also came with a Giant Harness/Vest Armor set up as well to make it look even more protective.......This by the way is the Warbird Costume, without the vest, the Black w/Bolt and Red Sash is The third costume she had and the first she made just for herself and not as an Homage to Mar-Vell, something she had issues with.

 

Prefer THIS look.[ATTACH=CONFIG]44028[/ATTACH]

It's the one she made Iconic over the years, and the one that's her Own, it's Ms. Marvel, not Warbird and the character should be Ms. Marvel not Captain Marvel because Ms. Marvel has earned her stripes. Folks seem to be confusing the Warbird and Mis. Marvel costumes, but I can dig out the Issue where that costume first appears. Can't even buy a pack of gum nowadays for what that book cost, heh.

 

 

~Rex....here's the debut page in the old Ms. Marvel book from back in the 35 cent cover days for folks that seem to think it's the Warbird costume...[ATTACH=CONFIG]44029[/ATTACH]

[Psybolt]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

I am afraid that I have to disagree with the comment that Ms. Marvel's costume is iconic. It was a great costume, but to say it is iconic stretches things a bit. The character of Ms. Marvel has never become the top line Marvel hero that they wanted her to be. If you showed a picture of Ms. Marvel to non-comic fans, they would not know who she was. But they would recognize real iconic costumes, such as Spider-man, Batman, Captain America, Superman, Wonder Woman etc.).

 

And it was not change just for change. They spoke of bringing the character into the present day. Making it something that a father would want their daughter to wear as a Halloween costume. These are the things that would make a costume really iconic.

 

And taking the name Captain Marvel removes the Ms. from in front of her name... so she's not such a woman's lib throwback... to the place where she has earned her stripes... a name that she respected. The story change made sense to me. Now, I'll admit that I liked Ms. Marvel but I was never deeply connected to the character so the change didn't hit me nearly as hard as it may have some. I see the changes as for the best... moving the character forward to where she should be... as the top female hero at Marvel.

[Greywind]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

You missed the comment. It was iconic for HER. Not comics in general.

[ayinde]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

should't she be major marvel?

[Zen Archer]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

should't she be major marvel?

 

You can't rub "Major Marvel" in DC's face.

[ayinde]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

or how about just Marvel

[RexMundi]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

I don't need, affirmative action in my comics. Hence, I don't need Carol Danvers making a run with the Captain Marvel name, as she's built the name Ms. Marvel, and has more miles on it over the last three decades then Mar-Vell did with his own moniker. Their reasoning is lazy and unneeded, and unwanted. Change for change sake, and another affirmative action bleh call. Looking around at what girls are wearing around here, especially in the summer, her old outfit would be considered overdressed so I don't buy the Costume Daddy could be proud of cop out excuse. It's just continuity ignorance and territory marking.

 

~Rex

[ayinde]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

hey rex what comics do you collect currently and what books have you left behind and when did you leave them behind. this isnt an attack on you more I want to get a prospective from a different fan now that i think about I pose the question to everyone

[bigbywolfe]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

I am afraid that I have to disagree with the comment that Ms. Marvel's costume is iconic. It was a great costume' date=' but to say it is iconic stretches things a bit. The character of Ms. Marvel has never become the top line Marvel hero that they wanted her to be. If you showed a picture of Ms. Marvel to non-comic fans, they would not know who she was. But they would recognize real iconic costumes, such as Spider-man, Batman, Captain America, Superman, Wonder Woman etc.).[/quote']

And everyone you list as having "iconic" costumes have had multiple movies/TV series/cartoons/video games. Are there any characters with "iconic" costumes who are not famous worldwide due to media forms other than comics?

Ms. Marvel's costume is iconic to her and comic fans, if not the general public. I instantly recognize it and I've never picked up a single Ms. Marvel comic, but I've seen it in every guest appearance/team-up (not to mention multiple cartoon and video game versions) over the last two decades.

[Claire Redfield]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

I don't mind the Captain Marvel costume for her, except for the short hair. The way they have her hair, I don't care for it. I liked her old look, because it's elegant and sexy, and I love the red sash, but I am not against the new one. I think they should just give her pants on her old costume if they want to de-sexualize it (though it's really not at all bad compared with most of them), but hey, whatever. But keep the long, blonde tresses, please.

 

Now, that's just the costume. The treatment of Carol is the more pressing concern. I'd really like to see her become a big name like Marvel wants her to be, I'd like to see the end of "de-powering" storylines altogether, and like I do in the Marvel game I'm playing in on RPOL, I'd like to see Jessie Drew and Carol together.

[Greywind]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

The one-piece was because the costume she had prior she didn't like the shoulders. With the costume she came up with she felt she was freer to move.

[RexMundi]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

hey rex what comics do you collect currently and what books have you left behind and when did you leave them behind. this isnt an attack on you more I want to get a prospective from a different fan now that i think about I pose the question to everyone

 

Currently:

 

Marvel: Daredevil. Any and All Captain America titles. Winter Soldier, Captain Marvel (AKA Ms. Marvel), The new Man-Thing Book. Any of the B-Squad in Space. Books like Heroes for Hire and the Defenders, Ghost Rider. Anything by certain Teams I like be they writers or Artists. I'm a sucker for Characters like Captain America, The Black Panther, Iron Fist, Moon Knight (Pre Bendis), Luke Cage (Pre Bendis). I could make this list longer but many of the books are done. Hoping a few come back. Did pick up a lot of the AvX stuff to keep up with what they decided to poop on with THAT event.....

 

DC: All of the 52 in PDF. Physical Books are limited to Aquaman. All the Bat Books (I've an uninterrupted line of Bat Books going back to 1975 when I started collecting with my own money....), All Star Western, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Frankenstein Agent of Shade, Justice League Dark, Earth 2, Worlds Finest, I, Vampire, Action Comics and Superman, GI Combat, Deathstroke, Captain Atom.

 

Valiant: Every Title. Haven't missed one this resurrection or the previous reign and even when Acclaim decided to turd them up.

 

Dark Horse: All BPRD related material. All Gold Key Material. Occasional Star Wars or Alien related book if the Arc is worth a crap (Crimson Empire for example)

 

ICON: Criminal, Incognito

 

Image: Fatale....Honestly I despise Image as a company, but there's a few books associated with it I am not adverse to (Invincible and the Like)

 

Top Cow: The Darkness

 

Dynamite: The Shadow, The Specter, The Lone Ranger, The Green Hornet, Project: Superpowers, Red Sonja, Vampirella, the Warlord of Mars books, and the Upcoming Peter Cannon: Thunderbolt, The Bionic Man, The Bionic Woman. Spin Off's of the above.

 

IDW: The Rocketeer Adventures. A few of their other books depending on Arc....

 

Red 5: Atomic Robo, We Kill Monsters. Honestly the more stuff I see from these guys the more I like their stuff.....

 

Moonstone Books. Everything. Practically Everything when I can find it.....

 

All that being said, it's about 1/10th what I used to pick up. Not even counting Graphic Novels, or Manga. What I used to Pick up would shock and awe most folks. Even now the money is considerable. Back When I made great money, I had an insatiable appetite for Literature of all types and even used to collect stuff that I utterly hated (like Deadpool), just so I could have a bonfire party later in the year.

 

~Rex....says now we must play in a game modeled on the comics of the 50's. Hence, I shall unleash MY character, The Force of Nature gone wrong known as TIKIBUMWHA!!! The Island that Walks! upon the shores of an unsuspecting Malibu California equivalent.

[esampson]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

re: Warbird to Captain Marvel

 

Marvel Comics has to have a Captain Marvel character in print every so often in order to protect their trademark. It actually sort of makes sense when you think about it and understand the intent of the law. Trademark is meant to protect an entity (originally a tradesman but now corporations) from having their work ripped off by other entities using their trademark. If you don't use the trademark for a protracted period of time then you lose the right to protection since you are no longer producing anything that needs protecting and the purpose of trademark isn't suppose to be to shut out other people.

 

That's how Marvel got the trademark on Captain Marvel in the first place. The old Fawcett character had been out of print for so long his trademark was no longer enforceable allowing Marvel to grab it. However because the intent of trademark isn't to allow someone to shut someone else out DC (who purchased the rights to the Captain Marvel character) is allowed to continue using him since he constitutes 'prior art'. They just can't make a new Captain Marvel character.

 

And before someone thinks that Marvel creating a new 'Captain Marvel' character or renaming an old one (as in this case) is a stinky thing to do and they are just trying to abuse the trademark law to shut out DC, if Marvel were to let their trademark on Captain Marvel lapse they would be in the same situation as DC; they could continue to use whoever the current 'Captain Marvel' was when someone else acquired the trademark but they wouldn't be able to make a new Captain Marvel character should someone at Marvel come up with a really good idea for one.

 

And now, Ob DC Bad so I'm not totally off topic:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44041[/ATTACH]

[Epiphanis]

Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC

 

Danvers is currently a colonel, not a major, and has been for years real time. I like the black monokini and thigh boots look better, but I get why some see it as sexist, and the variant Mar-Vell uniform is okay. But there is no excuse for the transgender Tintin up-do.