Cassandra Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 What powers would the classic Silver Age Superman have? Super Strength Super Speed Flight X-Ray, Microscopic, Telescopic Sight Ultrasonic, Telescopic Hearing Super Sense Super Intelligence Time Travel The Ability Fly Faster Then Light The Ability to Survive in Any Environment Tunneling Anything else? And how much would the minimum cost of a character like that would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laundry Knight Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman super-breath super-ventriloquism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Heat Vision Duplication (robots) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Invulnerability Super-Skill (mentioned in early Supergirl stories) Photographic memory Point cost: essentially infinite! "Near enough" representations would still be expensive. Supergirl is much much cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothere Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman And in one issue superknitting. Oddly enough he didn't need to use that one after that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laundry Knight Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman It would probably best to give SA Superman a VPP for many of his more farflung powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Some thoughts Super-Ventriliquism - Mind Link Super-Breath - Telekinesis Photographic Memory - Eidetic Memory Questions Can you buy Eidetic Memory in a VPP? Can you have Megascale Telescopic Sight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Does not Work during exposure to Red Solar Radiation (-1/4) Does not Work During Exposure to Green Kryptonite Radiation (-1/4) Is is legal to take both for a VPP Power? And what about OIHID (-1/4)? I'm working on something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Technically, Green and Red Kryptonite don't take away his powers, though Green makes them weaker progressively as it kills him. Red changes him into something else, but most of those forms have some version of Superman's basic powers. Gold Kryptonite takes away his powers, "permanently." dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman and OIHID is NOT a limitation for him. I know what you are going for, but that is one door that when you open it you will never be able to close it. As for the robots, I would go with followers, also the Superman resucue squad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman I dunno. Hero Designer for 6th Edition has a "balance limit" of about 19998 points, and for 5th, 29,997 points. I think maybe he could be written up between 5 and 10k points, depending on how inclusive you want it to be. He's strong enough to drag multiple planets behind him, his defenses are high enough that, when he's prepped, he will take zero damage from nukes, he can zip across the galaxy in minutes, etc. Then you toss in the base, vehicles, robots, the super-zoo, all his contacts, gadgets, etc. I could see him curb-stomping a dozen high-end Dr. Destroyers(from the BOTD), without even exerting his full power. The SA Spectre is built on more points, I suppose, but I can't think of any other comic book heroes who might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman The SA Spectre is built on more points' date=' I suppose, but I can't think of any other comic book heroes who might be.[/quote'] SA Martian Manhunter, if you include everything he's seen doing in a comic somewhere. He's a tick below Supes as a brick, but adds a full suite of mental powers and shapeshifting. Fortunately for the rest of the setting, he has both the most ludicrous Vulnerability in herodom and writers who can't keep track of everything he can do. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted September 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Thanks for the feedback I'll try activation rolls, beam attacks, and endurance increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman The SA Spectre is built on more points, I suppose, but I can't think of any other comic book heroes who might be. Dr. Fate was supposed to have a considerable power advantage, though not so much as the Spectre. But he's a more human-scale character (a moderately powerful brick wearing a helmet with vast magical powers), so really you'd just need to make his VPP big enough that it can handle powers whose Active Points exceed those of any of Superman's abilities. On the whole the character could be a lot cheaper to build than Superman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman The pseudo-Pre Crisis Superman I posted on another thread was over 3000 points. People reacted in horror to that. How silly do you want to get when you describe his powers? There were a lot of times when Silver Age Supes would be affected by a simple plot device. Once he fell on some power lines and the electrical jolt erased his memory for a short time (basically til the end of the issue). This is despite the fact that the way he fell, he wouldn't actually have been grounded or felt any electricity at all. So... Accidental Change, 8-, triggered whenever? And magic transforms and other things seemed to affect him, but magical attacks didn't blast through him like he was paper. DC heroes seemed remarkably vulnerable to Mind Control, and sometimes a 2 bit stage hypnotist could enslave him and send him out to rob museums. Other times he'd shrug off a mental attack no problem. So his mental defense is hit or miss. Then of course, are all the times that Superman would lose his powers, or pretend to lose his powers, or some other thing. For as many times Silver Age Supes would drag a string of planets to another galaxy using a piece of kryptonian thread, he's just as likely to fall in a hole or forget to use his x-ray vision or get kicked by a horse and lose his memory. I have an old Earth 1 & 2 crossover where Batman throws "a bag of powdered lead" at a villain and it bursts into flame, as it always does when exposed to oxygen. Batman apparently slept through science class. But stuff like that was common in the 60s. Perhaps all Silver Age characters should have both 10D6 of Luck and 10D6 of Unluck. Roll before every adventure to see what weird thing is going to happen today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Can you buy Eidetic Memory in a VPP? Eidetic Memory is built using Skill Levels to increase INT Rolls as its base ability, suggesting that it should be treated as a Special Power, and therefore not allowed in a VPP without Special GM Permission. Can you have Megascale Telescopic Sight? Generally speaking, you're not supposed to apply Advantages to Enhanced Senses. However, Star Hero uses MegaScale on Telescopic for building things like extremely-long range sensors. So again, it's a GM call. Personally, since interplanetary/interstellar range on senses is not a commonplace thing in the superhero genre (unlike starship sensors in sci-fi), I would probably make him buy it normally (without MegaScale). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Eidetic Memory is built using Skill Levels to increase INT Rolls as its base ability, suggesting that it should be treated as a Special Power, and therefore not allowed in a VPP without Special GM Permission. .... This is the reason I (usually*) only use Overall Levels in frameworks. From an Active Point perspective they are the least objectionable GM permission required option. *I once used 5 point OCV Levels as part of a specific attack slot of Captain America's Shield Multipower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Technically' date=' Green and Red Kryptonite don't take away his powers, though Green makes them weaker progressively as it kills him.[/quote'] I've been rereading the early Silver Age Supergirl stories lately... Generally, Green Kryptonite results in him (or her) falling out of the sky, and being unable to crawl away from it. On the other hand, there are two references to the chunks of kryptonite in question being too large to melt with heat vision or blow away with superbreath. If it was possible for those to be done, there wouldn't be much of a story, of course. The fall doesn't kill them, nor do they die in space from exposure to vacuum when they are affected by kryptonite. I would handle it in game terms as their strength and flight going away, while most of their other powers remain. Some of their other characteristics might drop too. It seems to take a fair while for kryptonite to kill them. Kryptonite was a relatively common plot device in the Silver Age. For Superman at least, I would allow "Not in the presence of Green Kryptonite" to be a -1/2 Limitation. I'd probably limit Supergirl to -1/4 initially. "Not in the presence of Red Sun Radiation" would be -1/4 in both cases. For their defences, "Not versus Kryptonite or Red Sun based attacks" might be appropriate at -1/4. I'd put the Red Sun limitation on pretty much everything, and the Kryptonite ones on selectively. Even without his powers Superman was fairly capable, as shown by the Nightwing and Flamebird stories. On the other hand, Supergirl was a rather immature teenager from a sheltered background. Supergirl is a classic example of a starting version of a character, with Superman as an experienced version. Their point totals should reflect that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman A thought: should Superman's super-intelligence and eidetic memory go away under a Red Sun? He remembered things that happened to him as a baby on Krypton, before he developed superpowers, so his memory extended back to before it was "super". On the other hand, what does he forget when he loses his powers? I'd consider fudging his super-intelligence as actually a result of being Jor-El's son, rather than being a true superpower. (That would extend to Supergirl as well, whose father was also a scientist). That way, his intelligence wouldn't be altered. I'd probably ignore the eidetic memory thing. I might make some of his mental superabilities go away though. Things like speed reading and lightning calculator, for instance, could be argued as being tied to his superspeed. A quick and dirty example of my approach. Specific details would vary: 0 STR - this is his strength in the presence of Green Kryptonite +15 STR, not in the presence of Green Kryptonite (-1/2) - this is his strength under a Red Sun +?? STR, not in the presence of Green Kryptonite (-1/2), not under a Red Sun (-1/4) - his "normal" strength Most other characteristics would have moderate base levels, plus higher levels "not under a Red Sun". A few might also be affected by Kryptonite, as above. VPP - Superpowers: not in the presence of Green Kryptonite (-1/2), not under a Red Sun (-1/4) - this would ignore the notional ability to melt or blow away Kryptonite, or being able to use super-ventriloquism to call for help. Armour: Not versus Kryptonite or Red Sun based attacks (-1/4), not under a Red Sun (-1/4) Life Support, Enhanced Senses, most mental stuff: not under a Red Sun (-1/4) Some mental stuff: no limitations A final note on Silver Age characters in general: it's probably not necessary for them to have every conceivable defence against things like NND Killing Attacks and the like. If Superman wants to go swimming in molten steel, his normal defences should cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted September 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Superman Val Char Cost 50 STR 40 14 DEX 12 25 CON 30 12 BODY 4 13 INT 3 10 EGO 0 10 PRE 0 10 COM 0 20 PD 10 15 ED 10 4 SPD 16 15 REC 0 50 END 0 50 STUN 0 Total Characteristics Cost: 125 Points Cost Skills 2 AK: Metropolis 11- 3 Converstaion 11- 3 Deduction 11- 1 FB: Press Pass 3 Rep: Superhero 14- 3 Streetwise 11- Total Skills Cost: 15 Points Cost Powers 1 COM +4, OIF: Costume (-1/2) 15 Damage Resistance 20 rPD 10 rED 10 ES: N-Ray Sight [Lead] 6 ES: RPT, Gestures (-1/4), IAF: Radio (-1/2) 16 Flight 10", No NCM (-1/2) 9 LS: High Pressure, High Radiation, Intense Cold, Intense Heat, Low Pressure/Vacuum 3 PRE +5, OIF: Costume (-1/2) 50 VPP 20 Points, Cosmic (+2) Total Powers Cost: 110 Points Total Cost: 250 Points 150+ Disadvantages 10 DNPC: Jimmy Olsen (Unaware Slightly Less Powerful) 8- 5 DNPC: Lois Lane (Slightly Less Powerful) 8- 10 Hunted: Lex Luthor (As Powerful) 8- 20 PsyL: Code Of The Hero (Very Common/Strong) 20 PsyL: Code Versus Killing (Common/Total) 10 SocL: Secret Identity [Kal-El/Clark Kent] (Occasionally/Major) 5 Suscept: Green Kryptonite Radiation, 1d6 STUN/Minute (Uncommon) 5 Vuln: Green Kryponite Radiation, 1 1/2x STUN (Uncommon) 10 Vuln: Magic, 1 1/2x STUN (Common) 5 Vuln: Red Solar Radiation, 1 1/2x STUN (Uncommon) Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points Cost VPP Powers 20 STR +50, NFC (-1/2), 3x END (-1) [super-Strength 1] 20 STR +40, NFC (-1/2), 2x END (-1/2) [super-Strength 2] 20 STR +30, NFC (-1/2) [super-Strength 3] 20 STR +20, NFC (-1/2), No END (+1/2) [super-Strength 4] 20 Extra-Dimensional Movement [single Location], Travel Through Time [single Point In Time], 3x END (-1) [Chooses Location/Time Period Each Time] 20 Duplication [250 Points], Concentrate 1/2 DCV (-1/4), IIF[immobile]: Fortress of Solitude (-1 1/4), Cannon Recombine (-0) [superman Builds Robot] 20 EB 8d6, Beam Attack (-1/4), No KNB (-1/4), 2x END (-1/2) [Heat Vision] 20 Entangle 4d6 DEF 4, Vulnerable [Fire] (-1/2), 2x END (-1/2) [Freezing Breath] 20 Telekinesis 10 STR, Fine Manipulation, Not in a Vacuum (-1/4) [super-Breath 1] 20 EB 4d6, Double KNB (+3/4), Not in a Vacuum (-1/4), 2x END (-1/2) [super-Breath 2] 20 DEX +9, NFC (-1/2), EGO +1 [super-Agility] 20 DEX +4, EGO +1, SPD +1 [super-Speed 1] 20 SPD +2 [super-Speed 2] 20 INT +5, PRE +10, COM +4, ES: PER +1 [Clark Kent] 20 Bump of Direction, Flight 1", Megascale [LY] (+3 1/2), Concentrate 1/2 DCV (-1/4), LS: Self Contained [FTL Travel] 20 LS: Breath Underwater, Swimming +10" 4x NCM [underwater Movement] 20 Tunneling 6" DEF 6, Walls Only (-1/2) [breaking Through Walls] 20 PRE +20 ["Superman!"] 20 INT +20 [super-Intelligence] 20 ES: Sight PER +1, Telescopic Sight +12 [super-Vision] 20 ES: Hearing PER +1, Telescopic Hearing +12 [super-Hearing] 20 ES: Sight PER +1, Microscopic Sight 10000000x [Microscopic Vision] 20 INT +5, ES: PER +5 [super-Senses] 20 PD +10 ED +10 [invulnerability] 20 REC +2, Healing: Regeneration 2 BODY/Turn [super-Healing] 20 REC +10 [super-Endurance] 20 Bump of Direction, Flight 5", Megascale [100km] (+3/4) [super-Flight] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Well, the biggest problem there is that a VPP is limited by the active points of powers, not just the real cost. A 20 pt VPP can't have a 40 or 50 point power in it, no matter how many limitations you slap on it. If you're bound and determined to do Silver Age Supes on 250 (which is kind of like trying to have foie gras and kobe beef for the price of an extra value meal), then you've got two choices. First, he needs that -2 limitation "loses powers permanently when exposed to gold kryptonite", or second, you're gonna have to get freaky with abusing Aid. Likewise you could put an END Reserve on Charges or other similar abusive abilities. I prefer not to do things like that which I wouldn't want a player to do. Edit: Again, if you are really trying to do him any sort of justice, I'd suggest going with simpler enhanced senses, such as "Detect Plot Element" or "Detect Person in Danger". Similarly I think a giant transform could handle a lot of his powers, possibly some megascaled change environment and extradimensional movement. Of course 75% damage reduction and absorbtion to Stun could help as well. You're going to have to get really creative and define your world around him in order for it to work right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted September 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman I don't think so, Massey. You just have to accept 50 Point powers are ones you can only use for a limited duration. For example the above Superman can boost his STR to 100, but the cost is 3x END and NFC. This means he can manage two punches with 20d6. Now, that might no be so bad as I don't think there are many villains in the DC universe who can take that kind of damage. Plus he can then switch to REC +10 (REC 25 Total) and take a couple of Recoverys to replenish his END. It's all about tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Massey is correct. As built, the VPP can only generate 20 AP powers. The control cost is 1/2 of the maximum AP, so a 10 point control cost (x3 for Cosmic) allows VPP slots with 20AP maximum. A Maximum 50 AP would bump the control cost to 75, + 20 for the 20 real point pool. THen, he could have a 50 AP power with 1 1/2 limitations for 20 real points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman I'm going to re-read the VPP Rules again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Re: Silver Age Superman Oh, well, better luck next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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