Fantasy Race Bloat?

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Every time I see the above thread title, it takes a second for my brain to parse the "l" and so I always start to wonder "What's a fantasy race boa... Oh, right!"

 

[/derail]

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

If the goal is presenting a race as different than stock humans...then it qualifies.

 

I consider that the lookout of the player. If you want to do that, do that; if not, no skin off my nose.

[Cancer]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

So how do all of you feel about a game like Gamma World' date=' which essentially has an unlimited number of character "races" and in which even some humans have special powers?[/quote']

 

I'm fine with that; in fact, I've played that, and my favorite character to date was the Cockroach with Stink Glands. I must admit, however, that I always reach for a slapstick element with my characters, independent of the game and game-world; I note that this can be described as a form of brain damage in me, that I can't roleplay a character that's nothing but serious to me.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I'm fine with that; in fact' date=' I've played that, and my favorite character to date was the Cockroach with Stink Glands. I must admit, however, that I [u']always[/u] reach for a slapstick element with my characters, independent of the game and game-world; I note that this can be described as a form of brain damage in me, that I can't roleplay a character that's nothing but serious to me.

 

Ditto. It's one of those things where I just don't assign a character Psych Lims I can't play. I'll never have 'Grim and Serious' on a sheet.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I'm fine with that; in fact' date=' I've played that, and my favorite character to date was the Cockroach with Stink Glands. I must admit, however, that I [u']always[/u] reach for a slapstick element with my characters, independent of the game and game-world; I note that this can be described as a form of brain damage in me, that I can't roleplay a character that's nothing but serious to me.

 

That's the sort I prefer, though the comedy my characters promote is almost always being a parody of whatever archetype I percieve the character to be.

 

As far as nonhuman races, I've only come up with one that was imagined from any detail, and that was intended to be a 1/2 mass, human strength, thin-atmosphere-adapted (their sea level is like 10,000 feet, or ~3000m) that had some canine characteristics (Cold nose, dentition, floppy ears, flews, vestigial tail, superb hearing and sense of smell, and so on). The Kaltanii (Changed later to Keltans, since nobody seemed to get that Keltanii was plural).

 

Sometimes it's fun to play the guy who can see in the dark or track people by scent or has some other thing he can do better than most humans. Sometimes I try to play as close as possible to the archetype of the "normal human" who, not being specialized, is better than many nonhumans in any endeavor which does not play to their strengths. I like my players to have those options unless the setting simply can't bend that far without breakling, but we usually rotated GM duties between a few of us and thus had plenty of chances to play things where these options weren't off the menu.

[Clonus]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I consider that the lookout of the player. If you want to do that' date=' do that; if not, no skin off my nose.[/quote']

 

In most games there are quite a lot of characters who aren't player characters.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

In most games there are quite a lot of characters who aren't player characters.

 

But they are rarely the issue. Unless race bloat means, "My gosh we meet so many different races! It's all to much for my phrasebook!"

[Ragitsu]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

But they are rarely the issue. Unless race bloat means' date=' "My gosh we meet so many different races! It's all to much for my phrasebook!"[/quote']

 

Considering there are typically four PCs, and many more NPCs, the latter are more commonly encountered. Besides which, the players can handle each of their own characters, yet the GM has to handle everyone else.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

In most games there are quite a lot of characters who aren't player characters.

 

The GM is also a player, just one with different responsibilities at the table.

[Clonus]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

But they are rarely the issue. Unless race bloat means' date=' "My gosh we meet so many different races! It's all to much for my phrasebook!"[/quote']

 

Read the original question. It's more of a world-building question than a question of how to roleplay a player character. As in, does it become unbelievable?

[Clonus]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

The GM is also a player' date=' just one with different responsibilities at the table.[/quote']

 

Like running all of the characters that aren't player characters.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Read the original question. It's more of a world-building question than a question of how to roleplay a player character. As in' date=' does it become unbelievable?[/quote']

 

I have never had any issues with it, but it's an individual taste/preference issue, as with most things in gaming.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Considering there are typically four PCs' date=' and [i']many [/i]more NPCs, the latter are more commonly encountered. Besides which, the players can handle each of their own characters, yet the GM has to handle everyone else.

 

Thank you for explaining how that works.

I guess, what I mean is; the fantasy race bloat seems to be primarily on the player end. Even the guys who don't like anyone but humans use other races for npc's/adversaries. Not always but at least sometimes. So if you don't have an issue with what your players play then it's not bloat. Unless you feel as a gm you have too many things to deal with, I suppose.

[Old Man]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

So how do all of you feel about a game like Gamma World' date=' which essentially has an unlimited number of character "races" and in which even some humans have special powers?[/quote']

 

Oddly, having unlimited mutations--and therefore no "races"--works better for me than trying to shoehorn in two dozen fixed species. For fantasy, deranged magicians, deranged gods, tainted-by-chaos could all accomplish the same thing.

 

I don't have an issue with "pure evil" races in fantasy. It's a game, and I'd just as soon not have to deal with moral arguments like whether it's okay to kill the bound Orc or not. Orcs, in my games, are programmed to kill, destroy, and cause suffering. They are not sapient enough to overcome these innate urges. YMMV.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Oddly' date=' having unlimited mutations--and therefore no "races"--works better for me than trying to shoehorn in two dozen fixed species. For fantasy, deranged magicians, deranged gods, tainted-by-chaos could all accomplish the same thing. [/quote']

 

This is true, and part of why I say 'race' is just your genetic structure at work. You want a Thri-Kreen in my Eberron game? Sure ... you're probably the only one, some extradimensional stray or random mutation or experiment.

 

I don't have an issue with "pure evil" races in fantasy. It's a game, and I'd just as soon not have to deal with moral arguments like whether it's okay to kill the bound Orc or not. Orcs, in my games, are programmed to kill, destroy, and cause suffering. They are not sapient enough to overcome these innate urges. YMMV.

 

And this is why I say 'sapient free-willed beings' (usually, sometimes I forget) when the discussion comes up. Your Orcs strike me as more like automata than the way I envision Orcs. Kind of like why you can't find a 'good' skeleton or zombie, since they're not really creatures, just things that happen to be moving, but when you move up to free-willed undead like vampires or liches, they can have any disposition.

 

I'm also far more inspired by Eberron's orcs, which are the founders of druidic tradition and played a big part in repelling the Xoriat invasion with their Gatekeepers.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

This is true, and part of why I say 'race' is just your genetic structure at work. You want a Thri-Kreen in my Eberron game? Sure ... you're probably the only one, some extradimensional stray or random mutation or experiment.

 

 

 

And this is why I say 'sapient free-willed beings' (usually, sometimes I forget) when the discussion comes up. Your Orcs strike me as more like automata than the way I envision Orcs. Kind of like why you can't find a 'good' skeleton or zombie, since they're not really creatures, just things that happen to be moving, but when you move up to free-willed undead like vampires or liches, they can have any disposition.

 

I'm also far more inspired by Eberron's orcs, which are the founders of druidic tradition and played a big part in repelling the Xoriat invasion with their Gatekeepers.

 

You do, with races in your fantasy worlds, like I did with superhero origins in my supers campaigns. If it could be edited to fit the setting and won't upset game balance, almost any concept will be allowed in.

[Markdoc]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

This is true' date=' and part of why I say 'race' is just your genetic structure at work. You want a Thri-Kreen in my Eberron game? Sure ... you're probably the only one, some extradimensional stray or random mutation or experiment.[/quote']

 

This is an interesting approach: you've essentially side-stepped the whole issue of having multiple races/species, by removing race/species as a concept. Instead, I guess, you have people/non-people, and people can be pretty much any shape.

 

cheers, Mark

[Portland Barbie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Just throwing my two cents into the ring . . . for those of you who don't like the idea of non-human races in your world, the op could be changed to "how many cultures/different societies become too much." As you've been apt to point out, a new race is nothing more than a huyman with a different veneer, which I disagree with when done right, so it comes down to this: How many different race/species/culture/society options becomes too much in a fantasy game setting?

 

And like my original post, I'll posit that it becomes a burden of the GM, and that the answer is however many he can portray as a unique race/species/culture/society without it turning into the whole "you're sitting in the tavern and up walks a stranger . . . " commonality. It will vary from game to game, player to player, and GM to GM.

[Markdoc]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Just throwing my two cents into the ring . . . for those of you who don't like the idea of non-human races in your world, the op could be changed to "how many cultures/different societies become too much." As you've been apt to point out, a new race is nothing more than a huyman with a different veneer, which I disagree with when done right, so it comes down to this: How many different race/species/culture/society options becomes too much in a fantasy game setting?

 

And like my original post, I'll posit that it becomes a burden of the GM, and that the answer is however many he can portray as a unique race/species/culture/society without it turning into the whole "you're sitting in the tavern and up walks a stranger . . . " commonality. It will vary from game to game, player to player, and GM to GM.

 

How much is a burden? That's going to vary from GM to GM. I did a rough count of my game and came up with over 60 cultures, many of which have subcultures, 4 races (all human in origin) and about 20 ethnicities. That's not really a strain for me (or my players) and a fair amount of the world remains to be mapped in, so, we can safely say more than that.

How many before you strain credulity? That's also going to be up the GM and the cultures he/she wants. The real world has hundreds, which suggests the number is probably pretty high.

 

cheers, Mark

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

This is an interesting approach: you've essentially side-stepped the whole issue of having multiple races/species, by removing race/species as a concept. Instead, I guess, you have people/non-people, and people can be pretty much any shape.

 

cheers, Mark

 

I don't know if I'd go that far, but I definitely remove it as being important. In my games, the vast, VAST majority of people simply don't care what you look like. You're behaving in a civilized manner, not causing trouble or breaking laws? You're cool. I also really hate the racial monoculture/stereotypes, which is why I completely decouple race from culture. Like I said earlier, an elf and a dwarf from the same nation are more likely to get along and have things in common than two elves from different nations.

[Old Man]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

How many different race/species/culture/society options becomes too much in a fantasy game setting?

 

Six.

[The Main Man]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I would like to take this moment to mention that I run a Rifts (HERO) campaign. Thing is, Rifts has a built-in excuse for having so many races.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I think The Main Man has a point. It really depends upon the setting. If I'm running a modern spies game set on contemporary Earth, anyone comes up to me and wants to play a Drow will get his face laughed in. How many elves has 007 run into? Ever.

 

On the other hand, if I'm doing modern fantasy (or everyone thinks 007 is getting stale so suddenly: MAGIC!!!*), and weird stuff is happening everywhere, then who knows, so long as it doesn't break the setting?

 

* or, if you prefer, SCIENCE!!!

[Lucius]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I think The Main Man has a point. It really depends upon the setting. If I'm running a modern spies game set on contemporary Earth' date=' anyone comes up to me and wants to play a Drow will get his face laughed in. ']

 

What if they want to play a Copt, or Bosnian, or Cornishman, or Andamanese or Yezidi?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

How about a palindromedary?

[Enforcer84]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

How much is a burden? That's going to vary from GM to GM. I did a rough count of my game and came up with over 60 cultures, many of which have subcultures, 4 races (all human in origin) and about 20 ethnicities. That's not really a strain for me (or my players) and a fair amount of the world remains to be mapped in, so, we can safely say more than that.

How many before you strain credulity? That's also going to be up the GM and the cultures he/she wants. The real world has hundreds, which suggests the number is probably pretty high.

 

cheers, Mark

 

Here's my answer for the whole thing. I haven't had any trouble in this regard yet...