OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

[Markdoc]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

In Miracleman, the Shazam knockoff/homage, they address this very question. The short answer there is that the "heroic form" and the "human form" start to turn into different personalities. Even though they have to some extent shared memories, they see them from different perspectives. So Miracleman doesn't want to change back. But the human alterego wants his own life. The comic has the memorable line, when his pregnant girlfriend tells the normal form that she's leaving him. He asks "But what about the baby?" and she says "It's not your baby. It's Miracleman's", which really gets the point across: she wants his heroic alter ego - not him.

 

I actually took this concept for an OIHID Brick called Valiant! Valiant was tall, muscular, insanely good looking, and of course faster, tougher, stronger and smarter than his normal form. So the Heroic form despised his nebbishy, weak useless - in his estimation - alter-ego and refused to change back voluntarily (there were of course situations that would change him back involuntarily, otherwise OIHID would have had no meaning). At the same time, Valiant! - had public ID and revelled in being a superhero and public figure, with a string of celebrity girlfriends, endorsement deals, a reality TV show, etc. Think of your favourite irritating celebrity and then give them superpowers ... The normal human form envied and disliked his Hero ID who he saw as shallow, egoistic, selfish and determined to put them both into potentially life-threatening situations ... and who made him look bad. So he wouldn't change voluntarily either - only if his own life was threatened (which oddly enough, happened on a regular basis ) or if he really, really needed Valiant!'s powers.

 

Normally I play heroic PCs, and I often end up as de facto or official team leader, but I had a blast playing Valiant! who was a mixture of sullen, emo normal form, and irrationally optimistic Hero form. Being basically invulnerable, free of mundane worries like earning a living, getting sick, etc. the Hero form had the emotional depth of a 12 year old and tended to act (which in his case usually meant punching someone in the face) and count the consequences afterwards. The normal form felt like his life had been invaded and he'd been pushed into the basement - at the same time as he'd become dependant on his alter-ego.

 

The whole question of why/how OIHID makes an interesting way to build some personality into your character.

 

cheers, Mark

[kahuna's bro]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Didn't some versions of Johnny Quick have to take a drug' date=' or was that just the evil Crime Syndicate version? Also, didn't he have to say a mathematical formula to turn his powers on? Do we know for a fact that they never turned themselves off (EDIT: When he rests or sleeps for example)?[/quote']he did use a mathematica formula if memory serves it y274a

[Cassandra]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

My point was that when we as gamers are building characters why would have a "weaker" alter ego. The only reason seems to be getting points for other things.

 

Who does want to play Billy Batson?

[Bloodstone]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Me. Billy's awesome

 

Considering how much time I put into my Ben 10 stuff, the fact that my third favorite super hero ever is the Hulk and looking at the sheer number of Multiform and OIAID type characters I have played and designed...

this is just something that has alway appealed to me.

 

I like the transformation aspect and I like the story opportunites it produces. And I actually want to play the weaker alter ego extensivly. Nothing feels more empowering to me and frankly, I like having an off switch. Not just so the GM can use it against me, but so that my character doesn't have the burdens, expectations and disadvantages of being super all the time.

 

I vastly prefer to be Billy Batson than to have some sort of Kryptonite for that sort of thing.

[Tasha]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

I think it depends on the character. A character that changes into something that looks different from a normal person might want to transform so they can pass an a normal human. A character like SheHulk might want to be Jennifer so she can sleep in a normal bed (This assumes that she gains mass like her Cousin does). Also being able to move around the house/ Apartment without worrying about breaking stuff. Normal items are pretty fragile to someone with enough strength to lift a car. Heck even normal clothing can seem as fragile as the finest fabrics to someone with super strength. Also there is the Psychological Identity problem of having 2 forms. It might actually be a bit of a relief to be the small person. Many Heroes were wimpy, geeky, people. They might not be very comfortable with the outgoing persona that being a superhero tends to bring out in a person. They might find it quite comforting to be what they were before their powers activated, even for a little while.

[Cassandra]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

If Angie Harmon gets her wish and plays the She Hulk I don't think we'd have to worry about her breaking the bed.

 

I'm pro her as Jennifer, but think it's a long shot.

[Cassandra]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Does the Hero have to have a weaker version, or just buy Instant Change and have OIHID for the Life Support and things like that?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Does the Hero have to have a weaker version' date=' or just buy Instant Change and have OIHID for the Life Support and things like that?[/quote']

 

Depends. It's entirely possible to have two forms without using HID for it. For example, I would not give Colossus the HID limitation; his transformation is instantaneous and nothing can stop it. He's just activating his power suite of DI, Armor, Life Support, etc etc. I would be skeptical of a character who only uses HID on a handful of utility powers like that, unless the HID was defined as an unbreakable focus sort of thing.

[Greywind]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Yes, but Colossus turns off when he gets KO'd.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Yes' date=' but Colossus turns off when he gets KO'd.[/quote']

 

Just one more reason to not to use OIHID/OIAID.

The character can still be built around a similar Limitation like Linked on the largest ability (usually Life Support or Armor/Resistant Defense).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Yes' date=' but Colossus turns off when he gets KO'd.[/quote']

 

Which means none of those powers are Persistent.

[Tasha]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Which means none of those powers are Persistent.

 

Powers that don't cost end normally don't turn off when you are KOed. So without OIAID (Only in Alternate ID, 6e) he could purchase his powers with Non persistant.

 

Also OIAID makes normally invisible powers like Resistant Protection (AKA Armor) visible by defination.

 

Colossus can instant change into Colossus, but isn't superstrong or bulletproof as Peter. That should give him OIAID if his player wants the limitation IMHO. Because to use his powers he has to change into his Colossus form. If a sniper shot him while Peter (ie surprise attack) then Peter would be wounded and possibly dying. Now the Movie Hulk probably doesn't have OIHID for his defenses and regen. Dr Banner reveals that he tried to eat a bullet while in Banner form, and The Hulk came out and spit the bullet into his hand. That means that his defenses are always working and automatically come up when any damage starts to happen. That or his subconscious manifested his Hulk ID the moment that he finished pulling the trigger.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Larry Niven aside, has that ever been an issue for anyone?

 

People should just ignore Niven.

 

"Coming soon from the author of the sizzling expose, Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex! Larry Niven's Bowel of Adamantium, Water Closet of Balsa, discussing the horrific implications of Superman's recent trip to Mexico; Micturation of High Pressure Superfluids, Ambient Temperature of Room, describing the consequences of wild steam in the built-up environment; Heart Beat of Sonic Boominess, Glass-walled Skyscrapers of Not-Standing-Upiness To the Spontaneous Cracking of their Entire Curtain; Exhalation That Has a Beaufort Rating and the Automobile Tires That Lack Traction in Shear, and other works that may or may not be published if the Apocalypse of the Silver Age Superman hasn't occurred first."

[Tasha]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Depends. It's entirely possible to have two forms without using HID for it. For example' date=' I would not give Colossus the HID limitation; his transformation is instantaneous and nothing can stop it. He's just activating his power suite of DI, Armor, Life Support, etc etc. I would be skeptical of a character who only uses HID on a handful of utility powers like that, unless the HID was defined as an unbreakable focus sort of thing.[/quote']

 

IMHO opinion he has OIAID because he must be Colossus to use the powers. That means when the team has to pass as human, Peter cannot have super strength and invulnerability. This comes up as often as the story needs it to happen. It doesn't matter if he has Instant Change. He still cannot use his powers unless he's 7'+ tall and a ton in weight. That is a definitely a limit to his ability to use his powers. IMHO worth exactly the +1/4 that the Limitation gives.

[Ice9]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Heart Beat of Sonic Boominess' date=' Glass-walled Skyscrapers of Not-Standing-Upiness To the Spontaneous Cracking of their Entire Curtain[/i']

Best title ever.

[ghost-angel]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

My point was that when we as gamers are building characters why would have a "weaker" alter ego. The only reason seems to be getting points for other things.

 

Who does want to play Billy Batson?

 

You've completely missed the implications of wanting to play (the STORY) an alter ego, of the story potential in play the dichotomy of acting "normal" vs "super" - the underlying psychology of why Superman has an Alter Ego of Clark Kent - it's not in OIAID situation - it's a "related to the world" situation.

 

There's not Mechanical Reason you're going to find - it's Roleplaying, so no it's not just to get points for other things. It's to help tell a story.

[Tasha]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

My point was that when we as gamers are building characters why would have a "weaker" alter ego. The only reason seems to be getting points for other things.

 

Who does want to play Billy Batson?

 

From a Character Gen Point of view. It gives a Player the ability to create a character that looks monsterous, but who can still maintain a Secret ID and a "normal life" outside of being a super.

[Tasha]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

If Angie Harmon gets her wish and plays the She Hulk I don't think we'd have to worry about her breaking the bed.

 

I'm pro her as Jennifer, but think it's a long shot.

 

She would be ok as Jennifer. She Hulk would probably be CG based on Angie. Like they did for Hulk in Avengers

 

Stats on She Hulk:

 

As Jennifer Walters:

 

She-Hulk / Jennifer Walters

 

 

 

 

 

• Height: 5' 10"
  
• Weight: 140 lbs (64 kg)
  
• Eyes: Green
  
• Hair: Brown
  
• Unusual Features: None
  

As She-Hulk:

 

 

• Height: 6' 7" - 7' 0" (varies)
  
• Weight: 700 lbs (318 kg)
  
• Eyes: Green
  
• Hair: Green
  
• Unusual Features: Jade-green skin
  

Above info from Comic Vine.com http://www.comicvine.com/she-hulk/29-1449/

 

700lbs is pretty darned heavy. Perhaps not bed breaking, but needing one with heavier springs so she doesn't bottom out the mattress springs.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

i've had the same question in re captain marvel jr if the powers effectively heal his crippled leg why change back?

[Greywind]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Because his power doesn't belong to him. It belongs to Captain Marvel.

[Cassandra]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Colossus

 

15 EC [Living Metal]-15 Points

15 1) STR +20, No END (+1/2)

15 2) Force Field +10 rPD +10 rED, No END (+1/2)

 

 

My take on Colossus' powers.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Also OIAID makes normally invisible powers like Resistant Protection (AKA Armor) visible by defination.

 

Do you have a cite for this? It's not listed in the entry for OIAID (6e1 386) or Obviousness (6e1 126). Focus, Physical Manifestation, and Restrainable are specifically mentioned, but OIAID is not.

[Andrew_A]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Do you have a cite for this? It's not listed in the entry for OIAID (6e1 386) or Obviousness (6e1 126). Focus' date=' Physical Manifestation, and Restrainable are specifically mentioned, but OIAID is not.[/quote']

 

I think it's assumed. Your alternate form would, at the very least, have to look different from your normal form. (I have no idea how you'd build Freddy Freeman though)

[Laundry Knight]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Do you have a cite for this? It's not listed in the entry for OIAID (6e1 386) or Obviousness (6e1 126). Focus' date=' Physical Manifestation, and Restrainable are specifically mentioned, but OIAID is not.[/quote']

 

Tasha's remarks don't necessarily indicate a rule but a convention. I assume that most people who play RPGs want to emulate the conventions of the stories the like to read and watch, and having an OIAID that is annoyingly obvious and therefore undesirable at times is part of the convention within many comic book stories. If you want to make spy based on spy movies of the 50s and 60s, you'd make him a suave impeccably dressed man speaking in high society tones, because that is the convention of spy movies in that era.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

I disagree. Nothing about Captain Marvel's defenses are any more Obvious than Superman's and the only reason anyone would assume he had OIAID Defenses is if they actually happened to watched him Transform from a little boy into a superhero and even then it would be a pretty big assumption on the part of the observer, ( unless it is a famous hero whose powers are known, in which case it isn't the OIAID but simply an issue of common knowledge).