World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

[GoldenAge]

I have a player that wants to create a veteran Drill Sergeant/Tactical Genius who has recently gained super powers...

 

As part of the character he wants his character to have the ability to make others better in battle. Of course, when he asked me how I'd do it, my mind went immediately to AID (usable on/by others/Area of effect etc.). But then he said he didn't want to increase their stats or enhance their existing abilities... He wanted to give them Combat Skill Levels that they could, in turn, utilize in the best way under current circumstances.

 

Has anyone ever built something like that?

Is it legal? (Because I'd like to exhaust legal routs before I just crumble and let him have it)

 

Does anyone have any ideas on different ways to do the "Great General's Great Generaling" helps his troops power????? Any ideas would be fantastic as they would probably lead to discussion and new ideas.

 

Please help.

 

Thanks guys and gals.

 

-GA

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

I've used Levels, Useable By Others more than once for a tactician. So long as they're at least 5 point levels, they're eligible for advantages and limitations.

[GoldenAge]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

But would he have to buy 1 extra 5-point Skill for every time he wanted to give it to someone? Or could he make the Skill Levels (AoE/Selective/LIM: based on vocal range) and only purchase one or two 5-pointers that he could spread out across the entire team (within earshot)?

[Beast]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

I have a character Elizabeth Perrot who is a muse and had this

 

2u 1) Battle song: Aid all combat(8pt 5th ed levels)(up to 2 levels) 1d6, Can Add Maximum Of 18 Points, Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1 1/4), Selective (+1/4) (40 Active Points); Others Only (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Conditional Power Power does not work in Uncommon Circumstances (on holy ground or in the presence of cold iron; -1/4) - END=0

 

Full character here

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/66408-Elizabeth-Perrot

 

with the new CC ,Aid has gone back to the 5th ed standard where you can buy up max possible effect without having to only buy extra dice

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

But would he have to buy 1 extra 5-point Skill for every time he wanted to give it to someone? Or could he make the Skill Levels (AoE/Selective/LIM: based on vocal range) and only purchase one or two 5-pointers that he could spread out across the entire team (within earshot)?

 

He could do something like ...

2 Levels with All Combat, Useable by Others, Useable At Range, Useable by x4 others (apply limitations for vocal range etc). This would give any four people (including himself, if desired) two levels to use as they see fit.

[GoldenAge]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

both repped!

[Lucius]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

I might do some forum searches, I'm sure this has come up multiple times that I've noticed.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Usable By Others

[bigbywolfe]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

By RAW you can't technically Aid an ability someone doesn't have, right? So this would only work on people who already had "All Combat" Combat Skill Levels, wouldn't it?

I have a character Elizabeth Perrot who is a muse and had this

 

2u 1) Battle song: Aid all combat(8pt 5th ed levels)(up to 2 levels) 1d6, Can Add Maximum Of 18 Points, Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1 1/4), Selective (+1/4) (40 Active Points); Others Only (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Conditional Power Power does not work in Uncommon Circumstances (on holy ground or in the presence of cold iron; -1/4) - END=0

 

Full character here

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/66408-Elizabeth-Perrot

 

with the new CC ,Aid has gone back to the 5th ed standard where you can buy up max possible effect without having to only buy extra dice

[Beast]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

Was trying to not be too much with overkill if I went with Aid Dex 18pts

which would get you

+2 OCV AND DCV

+1 to ALL Dex Rolls

Make you 6 Dex counts faster to act

and if I added in a 1d6 of Speed Aid or if the target(s) or had 4 extra points working on going faster in speed

 

it is much easier to get a GM to approve my Battle song than make monsters of the PCs

+1 Speed faster

By RAW you can't technically Aid an ability someone doesn't have' date=' right? So this would only work on people who already had "All Combat" Combat Skill Levels, wouldn't it?[/quote']

[GoldenAge]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

How about this:

 

AID to OCV & DCV - 3d6

Advantages:

Expanded Effect (+1/2) (2 Characteristics Simultaneously)

AoE 16m Radius (+3/4)

Selective (+1/4) Don't want to be helpin' out the bad guys, now do we?

45 Active Points!

Limitations:

One Use At A Time (-1); Player can only AID a character once. Player must wait until the power has entirely faded to AID again.

Only to AID others (-1/2); If ever you start shouting orders at yourself - seek professional help!

Restrainable (-1/2); If you can't see you cant lead effectively? (Just a thought. Drop it if you don't like it.)

Incantations (-1/4); Gotta bark out the orders. If this power can be used via Mind Link you'll need to lose this LIM.

Perceivable (-1/4); Shouting out commands has obvious beneficial results. Drop this like Incantations if used via Mind Link.

Limited Power (-1/4); Characters receiving AID must make a Perception Roll (Range Penalties apply). Mental Link = NO (as above).

Unified Power (-1/4) Mental Powers.

11 Total Real Cost

END = 4 "Dear GOD, it's exhausting telling these kids what to do all the time!"

So, it works like this...

You are with your small unit. The shiznit hits the fan!!! You bark out orders (AID - roll 3d6 and get a 10). Every friendly within 16m (8") makes a Perception Roll to see if they can hear and interpret your orders over the din of battle. Those that succeed get +2 OCV & +2 DCV!!!!! (+1 OCV & DCV per 5 pips rolled on your 3d6 AID dice)

On Post 12 the bonus "fades" (by 5 points) to +1 OCV & +1 DCV for the entire next Turn. Then, on the subsequent Post 12 it fades to ZERO. Any time after this you can shout out new orders to AID again.

Note: If someone fails their Perception they get NO AID. However, you can try it on them again on your next action.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

As written, the power requires a to-hit roll for each person you are trying to Aid (see AoE: Selective). I think that automatically hitting would be an additional +3/4 Advantage (APG 1).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

There's a lot of ways to do something like this.

 

Aid is clearly the easiest way to buff the abilities of others, if the recipients already have some level of ability to the thing being aided.

 

Abilities Usable By Other comes in next, and can be used to grant just about any sort of ability the GM allows. For instance, Sybyl (5e) is a precognitive seer with a lot of odd abilities, but these two are relevant:

 

Guidance--Immediate

10 1) Tactical Guidance: Overall Level, Ranged (+1/2), UAA (+1); Others Only (-1/2), Must Be Mindlinked To Target (-1/4), Only While Using Seers Vision (-1/4), Costs END (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Turns Off After Target Has Their Next Action (Whether They Benefit From The Overall Level Or Not) (-1/4) 2

 

10 2) Prophetic Guidance: Overall Level, LOS Not Required To Maintain (+1/2), UAA (+1); Others Only (-1/2), Costs END (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Turns Off After Used By Target Once (-1/4), Must Use Precognitive Powers To Read Recipients Future (-1/4), Activation (Rolled By Recipient When They Use The Ability) 15- (-1/4)

 

 

 

Another way to model it is to actually attach an affect to a target, with something Drain based, or using Negative Skill Levels, or possibly Transform. For instance, Showdown (5e) is a paramilitary super agent type character who has:

 

13 2) Hit Him In The Gut -- Hes Weak There: Negative Combat Skill Levels (-2 to opponent's DCV), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Ranged (+1/2), IPE (Fully Invisible; +1) (30 Active Points); Only Vs Opponent Which Find Weakness Has Succeeded Against (-1), Must Be Able To Communicate "Weak Spot" To Others For Them To Take Advantage Of It (-1/4)

 

 

Along those lines you could also do something with Change Environment. For instance, Fyrclian Beorgansdotter (5e) is a high fantasy warriorette with the following ability, which allowed her to use her skill with a whip to help her allies by distracting and putting foes into disarray:

 

Heroic Knacks

27

1) Cause Confusion: CE 2" radius, -1 to Hearing Group PER Rolls, -1 to Sight Group PER Rolls, -1 DCV, -1 DEX Roll and all Skill Rolls based on DEX, -1 OCV, Multiple Combat Effects, Selective Target (+1/2) (48 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Only When Using Whip (-1/4)

Notes: Fyrclian is so adept with her whip that she can seriously distract and destabilize any enemies fighting within 2" of her while also making her usual attacks with the whip. 5 END

[psyber624]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

AID to OCV & DCV - 3d6

Advantages:

Expanded Effect (+1/2) (2 Characteristics Simultaneously)

AoE 16m Radius (+3/4)

Selective (+1/4) Don't want to be helpin' out the bad guys, now do we?

45 Active Points!

Limitations:

One Use At A Time (-1); Player can only AID a character once. Player must wait until the power has entirely faded to AID again.

Only to AID others (-1/2); If ever you start shouting orders at yourself - seek professional help!

Restrainable (-1/2); If you can't see you cant lead effectively? (Just a thought. Drop it if you don't like it.)

Incantations (-1/4); Gotta bark out the orders. If this power can be used via Mind Link you'll need to lose this LIM.

Perceivable (-1/4); Shouting out commands has obvious beneficial results. Drop this like Incantations if used via Mind Link.

Limited Power (-1/4); Characters receiving AID must make a Perception Roll (Range Penalties apply). Mental Link = NO (as above).

Unified Power (-1/4) Mental Powers.

11 Total Real Cost

Interesting construct. Not sure about the limitations tho, This power seems to be way too strong to have only an 11 RC. Nothing wrong with it RAW that I can see but it just feels off to me.

[GoldenAge]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

Thanks a TON guys!

[GoldenAge]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

Interesting construct. Not sure about the limitations tho' date=' This power seems to be way too strong to have only an 11 RC. Nothing wrong with it RAW that I can see but it just feels off to me.[/quote']

Probably because it's lacking this advantage (as brought to my attention by IndianaJoe3 above):

 

ACCURATE SELECTIVE

Value: +3/4 more Advantage

This modifier is like the Selective modifier, but with one important difference: after hitting the Area, the character doesn’t have to roll to hit the targets in that area which he wants to hit. He hits them automatically. In other words, this form of Area Of Effect is like a regular Area Of Effect, except that the character can ignore targets in the Area he doesn’t want to harm.

[psyber624]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

Well, its more all the limitations.

One Use At A Time (-1); Player can only AID a character once. Player must wait until the power has entirely faded to AID again.

I'm Okay with this one. Not sure if its worth -1 when it can aid a bunch of different players once each, but according to the rulebook it works that way so no big deal.

Only to AID others (-1/2); If ever you start shouting orders at yourself - seek professional help!

Perfectly Okay with this one.

Restrainable (-1/2); If you can't see you cant lead effectively? (Just a thought. Drop it if you don't like it.)

I'd definitely not allow this. Especially not with Incantations as well. The power isn't really restrained in any way. You might want something like "Doesn't work if can't see" or some such which would be effectively the same thing, but as you have to target powers normally I still don't feel that would be effective. To note, AID requires an attack roll, being blind makes the attack roll difficult already so I wouldn't allow you to take a limitation for something that it already affecting the power normally.

Incantations (-1/4); Gotta bark out the orders. If this power can be used via Mind Link you'll need to lose this LIM.

This is perfectly fine. In fact I would probably change the AID to a BOOST and increase this to the 1/2 level so that the points would instantly go away as soon as you couldn't communicate any more.

Perceivable (-1/4); Shouting out commands has obvious beneficial results. Drop this like Incantations if used via Mind Link.

This is double dipping with Incantations. I do not feel that this limits the power in any way that Incantations does not already cover. So no on this one.

Limited Power (-1/4); Characters receiving AID must make a Perception Roll (Range Penalties apply). Mental Link = NO (as above).

In almost all cases the PER roll would generally be a gimme. For reference, the Limited Power guidelines state that -1/4 should be used to represent a power loosing about 1/4th of its effectiveness. I highly doubt that this limitation would cause the power to fail 1/4th of the time, not to mention the fact that missing just one person still makes this a very valuable power, so I do not feel that this is a good limitation. (At best I would fold it into incantations.)

Unified Power (-1/4) Mental Powers.

I have no idea what exactly you are doing with this one. Is the sfx of the power that he is a mentalist that boosts stats? or is a tactician that is yelling out orders? If he is a mentalist and has at least one other mental power then this is okay. If he is a tactician then Unified Power is highly inappropriate (how exactly would someone "drain" his ability to shout orders? that's all Unified Power does after all, it makes all unified powers drained at once.)

 

 

So that means there are basically (-1 1/4th) of limitations that I felt were inappropriate. As a special note, this power had a total of (-3) in limitations. A power that limited should rarely be useful, yet with the set of limitations you gave it I see it as still being an incredibly potent power almost all of the time. The only real way for an enemy to prevent you from using this power was to put you in a silence field/gag you, etc. That was where my complaint was coming from. Of course technically none of those limitations are a violation of RAW, so this is entirely opinion.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: World's Greatest Tactician Helps Others???

 

I believe I preferred this one, originally written (I believe) by ... well, it says 'Bill Keyes', but which was for MilkmanDan's Marvel-28669 'BunnyVerse' campaign. I've modified it so as to a) be able to be used by everyone within his voice range (32") he can direct, and so that it takes no real time or requirement to hit except for the tactical analysis (i.e. two Zero-Phase actions):

 

Master Tactician... If You Do As I Say: +2 with All Combat, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action to reset; Giving Orders / Analyzing the Combat; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1), Area Of Effect (32" Radius; +1 3/4), Selective (+1/4); Works Only If Individual Does As Directed (-1/2), Requires A Tactics Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

[Lucius]

On my mark....Now!: (Total: 39 Active Cost, 13 Real Cost) Naked Advantage: Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4) for up to 90 Active Points, Usable Simultaneously (up to 4 people at once; +1/2), Grantor can only grant the power to others, Recipient must be within Limited Range of the Grantor for power to be granted (33 Active Points); Requires A Roll (Skill roll, -1 per 20 Active Points modifier; Must be made each Phase/use; Leadership; -3/4), Extra Time (Extra Segment, -1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; -1/4), 6 Recoverable Charges (-1/4) (Real Cost: 11) <b>plus</b> +2 with Teamwork, Usable Simultaneously (up to 4 people at once; +1/2), Grantor can only grant the power to others, Recipient must be within Limited Range of the Grantor for power to be granted (6 Active Points); Linked (Naked Advantage; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), Instant (-1/2), Extra Time (Extra Segment, -1/2) (Real Cost: 2)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Tactical Palindromedary

[pinecone]

I have a player that wants to create a veteran Drill Sergeant/Tactical Genius who has recently gained super powers... As part of the character he wants his character to have the ability to make others better in battle. Of course, when he asked me how I'd do it, my mind went immediately to AID (usable on/by others/Area of effect etc.). But then he said he didn't want to increase their stats or enhance their existing abilities... He wanted to give them Combat Skill Levels that they could, in turn, utilize in the best way under current circumstances. Has anyone ever built something like that? Is it legal? (Because I'd like to exhaust legal routs before I just crumble and let him have it) Does anyone have any ideas on different ways to do the "Great General's Great Generaling" helps his troops power????? Any ideas would be fantastic as they would probably lead to discussion and new ideas. Please help. Thanks guys and gals. -GA

I've done it it works just fine...off the top of my head...+X Combat, UBO, xX, language dependant, must follow suggestions. I would also look at small boosts like +3" running, Noisy (Must yell and threaten)  "Move your goat smelling behind!!" I guess Incantations is the go to limit...

[Gravitron]

I think the better way to do this is with Aid to OCV and DCV rather than levels. One really shouldn't be putting advantages and disadvantages on levels if it can be avoided IMO.

 

I was recently working on a character who is prescient and I wanted pretty much the same power. The ability to aid her teamates with her knowledge of the future ("He's going to attack from behind! Watch out!").

 

Aid OCV and DCV work well for this.. but I think some of the write-ups above have the wrong cost of such a thing.

It is quite expensive. Remember that according to the rules for Aids, Drains, etc. Modifying combat stats is 1/2 as effective.

So 3d6 of Aid to OCV or DCV would cost 18 points. 36 points if you wanted to affect both at once with a fixed ratio of 1 to 1. The other way is to have +1/2 advantage Expanded Effect, which for some reason is more cost effective (only 27 points). :-) This would yield on and average roll of 10, 10 points of Aid to each stat, which would translate into 5 points of effective Aid, so 1 OCV & 1 DCV on an average roll. But keep in mind, if you rolled an 8 or less you would get no benefit at all since you can't get 1/2 of an OCV/DCV point (9 would give you the benefit of round-up).

 

I also agree with psyber624 on the limitations.

[wick]

If the tactical ability is not really his "power" but more of his experience and background why not go with skills like Tactics and Teamwork?

[Lucius]

If the tactical ability is not really his "power" but more of his experience and background why not go with skills like Tactics and Teamwork?

Depending on what you want out of the character and on what you can do with Skills at your gaming table, that might - or might not - be enough. Have you read the actual rules text on Teamwork?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Power Skill: Palindromedary

[Christopher]

I see one issues here - balance:

A Character whose primary purpose is to buff others can do havok to balance.

 

The "you can only use what you paid yourself for" rules is there to prevent the Hulk's from picking up the Thor's hammers on regular basis.

This character is trying to be a Hammer Arsenal.

 

 

A simple crosscheck for such a case can be:

Would it be balanced if the ability was bough by the other Characters?

i.e., what if the others would buy "+X Skill Levels, only useable when Tactician Character Nearby"?

If it would cost them much more then it costs the Tactician in his build, something is propably too Munchkini in Tacticians build.

 

 

Aid, UBO and Object Creation are usually a lot easier to use in Heroic games then Superheroic ones.

Heroic games already have pre-emtive rules like the optional "no more then Double DC" rule, as well as limits on how many points you can spend on powers in the first place.

By thier very nature Heroic games are a lot better at preventing power escalation then Superheroic ones.

[Greywind]

What does Havok have to do with balance?

[Christopher]

What does Havok have to do with balance?

 

When Havok causes havok in Havok-city, it causes havok for the whole mutant cause.