Teleport Enemy Weapons To Disarm

[Christopher R Taylor]

Remember to buy ranged on it, so you can target at range.  I probably wouldn't give the non living items a -1, seems like worth less to me.

[Tasha]

This is wonderful feedback, just what I was hoping for. Based on that, 

 

I'll Take Those:  Teleportation 2", Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (10 Active Points); Limited Power Solid Non-Living Items Only (-1)

 

As I understand it using this attack I use Grab/Disarm rules (and their variants) to attempt to take (or at least remove) any items I may wish.

 

If I am correct in my understanding, let me know. If I got it wrong, how would you amend it so it works correctly.  I understand the teleport is actually the special effect in this case, since the mechanic is actually grab/disarm.

 

Although it wasn't my intent, I am curious as to how this power might be amended to grab everything in that square that was non-living and rigid. I put that Limit on there just to remove the possibility of hurting someone, but the notion of removing their change from their pockets along with the gun hidden in their ankle holster, their two knives and their cell phone with the target none the wiser is a happy one also  If you got a writeup for that, throw it up for completeness if anything else, and any notes about how it operates in the rules.

They paid for it by not  taking the discount for taking "Accessable" on the power.

 

You can take the stuff that you can Perceive, and that are Accessable. You won't get the contents of their Pockets, or the pistol hiding in their backpack(though you would get the backpack). You wouldn't get the knife hidden in the boot (unless you saw it). You can't hurt someone with a Teleport purposely. You have to buy an attack for that. 

 

So what is the Special Effect of this. I really dislike writing powers up with no special effect. 

[Ninja-Bear]

Tasha I understood the special effect as teleport weapon out of hand.

[Doc Democracy]

Ninja, that is the game mechanic.  Tasha is looking for the comic book explanation that might inform the mechanic she might use to achieve the game effect.

[Grailknight]

I'm far more interested in what the defense against this power will be.

 

As I interpret this, the OP wants a Disarm against reduced DCV(hence the Area of Affect) that does not have to overcome an opposed STR roll.

 

I can envision using invisible TK for the DCV portion but to take a focus away requires either:

 

1- Stealing it from someone unaware(TK with Sleight of Hand, won't work against Inaccessible Foci)

 

2- Taking it in out of combat time from a helpless opponent.

 

3- Making an opposed Disarm vs an aware opponent(again, wont work vs Inaccessible Foci)

 

#1 is doable with Teleport, #2 is how the Focus rules work by RAW anyway but #3 requires some bending of the rules to negate the STR of the target. As described he could just as easily take Mjolnir from Thor( if it was defined as OAF) as a pencil from Reed Richards. Same ability but no where near balanced in application.

[wolfrunswithfox]

Have you considered adding a trigger to your teleport?  That would allow you to use telekinesis for the actual disarm (which seems like the most intuitive fit to me) and then teleport the item away immediately without spending a separate action.  The teleport portion might look something like this:

 

    Teleport x' Ranged (+1/2) Usable as Attack (+1 1/4) Trigger (When user successfully disarms a target with telekinesis, Zero Phase action to activate, Zero Phase action to reset +1/2) Only Inanimate Objects (-1)

 

For removing Inaccessible Foci at combat speeds, the only thing that seems to make sense to me is transform.

 

    Transform xd6 Equipped Target to Unequipped Target.  Minor Transform.  Reversed by donning the lost equipment (which appears nearby).  All or Nothing (-1/2)  Can affect any or all equipment (+1/4)

 

Expanding the teleport's trigger condition to also trigger on a successful transform would add another (+1/4) to its modifiers.

[g3taso]

The SFX is cool ninja-like smacking of some item out of the pesky opponent's hand. "I understand the teleport is actually the special effect in this case, since the mechanic is actually grab/disarm."

[Grailknight]

The Disarm mechanic requires that opposed roll vs target STR.

[Ninja-Bear]

Ninja, that is the game mechanic. Tasha is looking for the comic book explanation that might inform the mechanic she might use to achieve the game effect.

I got that and I still think that it teleporting the gun away. Teleport is the special effect.

[Surrealone]

The SFX is cool ninja-like smacking of some item out of the pesky opponent's hand. "I understand the teleport is actually the special effect in this case, since the mechanic is actually grab/disarm."

So I'm reading this to mean there's no need for AoE since the SFX you just described didn't entail attacking an area ... and it's intended to work only on obvious, accessible foci (since it's in hand, hence both obvious and accessible).  Is that a correct read on what you indicated?  If not, please provide clarification...

[Tasha]

The SFX is cool ninja-like smacking of some item out of the pesky opponent's hand. "I understand the teleport is actually the special effect in this case, since the mechanic is actually grab/disarm."

 

Both the Takeaway and Martial Disarm Maneuvers work great for this. I don't understand how Teleport is the Special effect for a combat maneuver, basically a superskill. Though not a needed one given that there are maneuvers that do this very well with enough extra strength to make them easy to pull off. If you were a player I would want more of an explanation of how this fits into your character's overall concept.

 

This feels like a Power that a player wants to shoehorn into a character's sheet because they see the power is unbalanced in some way.

[Beast]

My favorite teleport foes weapon is
Stretching does not cross intervening space and a grab vs oaf(-3 ocv -2 dcv) or w/ the takeaway martial maneuver vs oaf(-0 -0)

[dmjalund]

how about NND STR only for Disarm

[Doc Democracy]

I think there is a place for a teleporter to have a cool disarm power.

 

It may be simply the point and shoot power of Jay Ackroyd (Popinjay) in the Wild Cards series.  What he can point at, he can send anywhere he can visualise (though he cannot teleport himself).

 

The key thing about this to me is that it should not simply be a way of getting round the disarm rules.  I think that there should be something built into the mechanic to retain a level of balance.  

So, disarm as a manoeuvre is free.  It has to hit penalties and requires a STR versus STR roll.

 

This costs points, is at range and it may change the definition of what is (and is not) accessible.  There needs to be a defence (unlike in Wild Cards where the author is the only balance needed).

 

This is why there needs to be some thought put into it.  A STR versus STR roll does not 'feel' right for this, the objects simply pop out of existence.  As such there needs to be some thought into how a person might hold onto the item.  If the item is held then you 'might' allow a STR roll to be used versus the active points of the power.  I would allow the teleporter to purchase levels in this to 'pull' actively resisted teleports.    If the item is not held then there should only be an attempt to disarm modified by range and size of item.  I would also ask the player to define what might prevent the teleport, like teleport powers (disrupting his ability to create the teleport field round the item) or electrical powers (same idea) or force fields (through which his teleport cannot pass) etc.

 

Ultimately it is like Tasha says.  To really get an idea of the best way to define the power, mechanically, you need to define it narratively.

 

 

Doc

[g3taso]

Both the Takeaway and Martial Disarm Maneuvers work great for this. I don't understand how Teleport is the Special effect for a combat maneuver, basically a superskill. Though not a needed one given that there are maneuvers that do this very well with enough extra strength to make them easy to pull off. If you were a player I would want more of an explanation of how this fits into your character's overall concept.

 

This feels like a Power that a player wants to shoehorn into a character's sheet because they see the power is unbalanced in some way.

Perceptions are of course relative. In this case, the character in question is Heroic and a STR of 14. The character is more roguelike, using his Larceny Backpack to break into buildings and so forth. He's not a brick, and when possible he avoids combat or instead attacks from surprise. However, after watching Empire Strikes Back and the great Vader telekinetic blaster snatch I realized a grab/disarm would be extremely useful as well as a totally unexpected monkeywrench from the non-combat dude.  

 

In my case, my 14STR won't allow me to disarm most opponents in a roll-off. I realized a DEX or ninja-based approach was appropriate. Perhaps a thrown object at their hand holding a weapon, or just an unexpected darting in and disarming from an unexpected direction and forth would be appropriate.  That's why I consider it a ninja/skill-based grab/disarm with the SFX of teleport.

[g3taso]

So I'm reading this to mean there's no need for AoE since the SFX you just described didn't entail attacking an area ... and it's intended to work only on obvious, accessible foci (since it's in hand, hence both obvious and accessible).  Is that a correct read on what you indicated?  If not, please provide clarification...

In retrospect I agree. When I first came up with the idea it seemed appropriate, but as it evolved via feedback it became apparent that it wasn't really necessary. It could look like this

 

Teleportation 1", Ranged (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (5 Active Points); Limited Power Inanimate Objects Only (-1/2)

 

it could even be stretching, now that someone mentioned it

[Doc Democracy]

In my case, my 14STR won't allow me to disarm most opponents in a roll-off. I realized a DEX or ninja-based approach was appropriate. Perhaps a thrown object at their hand holding a weapon, or just an unexpected darting in and disarming from an unexpected direction and forth would be appropriate.  That's why I consider it a ninja/skill-based grab/disarm with the SFX of teleport.

 

And this is indeed why the detail is necessary.  I can see the motivations behind it and why it fits the character concept.  Now it is all about making that work mechanically.

 

You would agree that for the ninja to grab/disarm, it is not appropriate for the object simply to disappear out of a hand and appear somewhere else, this is not magic.

 

Using teleport mechanically allows you to do this at range and remove STR from the equation.  Of course, in game there would be the SFX that the ninja flips out, knocks the weapon away from the warrior who is so surprised he does not resist.

 

The question is, what is the warrior's options for defending against that attack?  Obviously we can now weight it towards the ninja as that is the point of spending points! :-)

 

So.  Perhaps we retain the range and size penalties for the disarm roll, or simply a targetting roll.  Instead of a to hit we require the ninja to succeed in some kind of stealth roll versus the warrior's awareness.  If the warrior is completely unaware then it seems as if the ninja comes out of nowhere and suddenly he is weaponless with the ninja nowhere near.  If the warrior is aware then there is a usual STR vs STR roll (which the ninja is likely to lose) and if he succeeds the sword is knocked but not out of his hand while the ninja is still nowhere near.

 

That all 'feels' right to me.  It does not provide the ninja with a mystical power (though, in the right setting that might be appropriate) and gives the warrior a reasonable defence route.

 

 

Doc

[Christopher R Taylor]

Teleport could represent someone so fast or sneaky that you can't even see it happen.  Since teleport ignores strength, it would allow a particularly sneaky, tricky character to disarm even the hulk by distraction and surprise.

[Doc Democracy]

Teleport could represent someone so fast or sneaky that you can't even see it happen.  Since teleport ignores strength, it would allow a particularly sneaky, tricky character to disarm even the hulk by distraction and surprise.

 

I guess it depends on how much the setting accommodates unrealistic (not used in a pejorative way) outcomes.  Superheroes should see this work almost without thinking - though there are likely to be more confounding factors.  In heroic games there should be different confounding factors.

 

All that is necessary is that there is some internal consistency so that the players do not feel that there is an abuse of some kind or that they are helpless to do anything (or get carried away abusing a loophole you created for them!).  :-)

[Amorkca]

In the above examples, can a Ninja use a Martial Disarm to gain this effect? Perhaps with a whip to simulate the TP, make it an agility factor which would favour the Ninja?

[Grailknight]

Teleport could represent someone so fast or sneaky that you can't even see it happen.  Since teleport ignores strength, it would allow a particularly sneaky, tricky character to disarm even the hulk by distraction and surprise.

 

The Sleight of Hand Skill covers this. It would be a DEX-roll based power opposed by Perception.

[Doc Democracy]

If you are asking me, then I would say you are either using a disarm (which could be done at range with a whip if the martial art was learned with weapons) or you are using a power...

 

Obviously the special effect of the teleport could be using a whip but it would not be using the martial disarm manoeuvre.   

 

However, there is nothing that would prevent building aspects of the martial disarm into the application of the teleport power either....

 

 

Doc

[Christopher R Taylor]

The Sleight of Hand Skill covers this. It would be a DEX-roll based power opposed by Perception.

 

 

Sure, but this is the Hero system, which lets you buy things the way you want to unless it somehow violates the rules.  Using teleport instead is not "wrong" its just different. And it has advantages and drawbacks that other builds do not.

[Christopher]

I thought this seemed a cooler idea than a Vader-style telekinetic blaster grab. I was thinking this is a nice surprise for an enemy!

 

Am I correct in 5e (mebbe 6th also) that I just make an attack roll vs DCV3 to successfully take that weapon, brooch, paperback or tray of nachos away from my designated target?   Does this apply to Foci as well?

The problem you will run into is what makes this build so fascinating in the first place: You circumvent Strenght as disarm defense.

 

As player and GM you can build quite some broken stuff in the game. In order to avoid this going out of hand, some design rules have been shared. One of them is: "Every attack should have a defense". The GM is free to break those rules, on own risk.

None of the pricings are aimed to include all the broken stuff you could do without those design rules being in place.

 

Personally I a not a friend of using Movement Power, UAA ever. I think TK with some modifier should work just as fine. For example, TK with the "Teleport"* modifier would allow you to "teleport" the weapon to your hand without circumventing the main defense

 

*I pretty much invented that modifier. Disables slamming into walls/velocity based stuff and loose contact if you TP out of your Line of Sight.

[g3taso]

Doc and others, you raised an interesting possibility. Ultimate Martial Artist and Fantasy hero have weapons that can do grabs, including whips and gusari (chain) weapons. They are often used to disarm weapons and both by coincidence can be modeled with Stretching.