2017-18 NFL Thread

[Old Man]

It does cast Hernandez' actions in a new light. 

 

His family has sued the NFL, btw.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Is it known that he was that way early in life? Brain damage of any sort can be rather erratic in terms of what mentality effects it has. Having seen a stroke victim before and after ... it can be startling.

 

 

It does cast Hernandez' actions in a new light. 

 

His family has sued the NFL, btw.

It does raise a disturbing philosophical question -- how much control do we really have over what we do? And if we do not control our actions the way we believe we do, does that change our responsibility for them?

[Badger]

In Hernandez case, I remember he had character issues coming out of college, as it was.  I want to say he may have gang ties then, but, I cant remember, and am too lazy to look at the moment.  So, it is unlikely he would be a guy you would want to peg the argument on.

 

This finding could make for an argument that it could have been a contributing factor in him killing himself, given free ex-players kill themselves for such reasons.  That and being in jail....

[Cancer]

It does raise a disturbing philosophical question -- how much control do we really have over what we do? And if we do not control our actions the way we believe we do, does that change our responsibility for them?

That latter is a philosophical question that the courts will end up having to address, without much good background for making those decisions. Possibly the most infamous case from the mid-20th Century was the guy who became sniper in the Tower at the University of Texas at Austin back in '67 or '681966. After they had finally shot him ... and it was a situation the police of the era were unequipped for ... the autopsy found a rather large brain tumor, which fueled lots of speculation about why he suddenly took his long arm up 20 or so floors and started shooting people at distance.

 

Can you use that to start monitoring people for brain injury? If you do, and use it to lock up potentially dangerous individuals, how will that be different from the psychiatric confinement used by repressive regimes to suppress dissidents? And would you be willing to trust our current regime with such powers? Especially since at this time you can't detect CTE except by autopsy, that's a nasty ball of trouble no matter what.

 

We already know the NFL basically wants to tell us all "Nothing to see here, move along", just like every industry has that directly caused long-term debilitating illness and death to its workers, albeit often without clear knowledge initially that they were doing it. But given that parents have already started forbidding sons from playing the sport, and some players already have ended their careers voluntarily for reasons allied to this, it is way past time for the league to think hard about it.

 

And frankly I think every NCAA school president (and regent) needs to wake up in a cold sweat about the lawsuit that finds their institution intentionally and willfully exploited student athletes for the football dollars their programs get.

 

EDIT: Corrections the next day.

[pinecone]

Well...on the "plus"(?) side a decade plus of war is giving us a much better understanding of brain injury.

[Cygnia]

 

NFL reportedly considering moving Chargers back to San Diego

 

[Enforcer84]

I sadly predict we're going to 2-1 this week. 

[Burrito Boy]

NFL reportedly considering moving Chargers back to San Diego

I read the whole article this time.

[Michael Hopcroft]

NFL reportedly considering moving Chargers back to San Diego

Would San Diego take them back? Is the Chargers brand so damaged nationally that they wouldn't succeed anywhere?

 

I don;t see the NFL adding more teams at any point, but if they want to get back into the good graces of fans in San Diego and St. Louis, expansion teams in those cities might be the way to go. It worked very well in Houston, but not necessarily so well in Cleveland.

 

What other cities could support the NFL? That's an intriguing question. With everything going on with CTE and other issues, and a seemingly inevitable work stoppage in the future, this would be a bad time for expansion.

[Old Man]

Full on expansion would be hard to pull off.  Mathematically, exceeding 32 teams becomes something of a scheduling nightmare.  There's already a serious shortage of skilled players, and that's not going to improve unless someone invents a cure for CTE.  I think it'd be more likely that a tiered feeder division system like MLB and soccer have would be set up.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Full on expansion would be hard to pull off.  Mathematically, exceeding 32 teams becomes something of a scheduling nightmare.  There's already a serious shortage of skilled players, and that's not going to improve unless someone invents a cure for CTE.  I think it'd be more likely that a tiered feeder division system like MLB and soccer have would be set up.

For optimum competitiveness and product quality, is even 32 teams too many? 

[Pariah]

What cities could we put a AAA football team in?  You'd probably need cities that have (or are willing to build) a stadium that seats at least 15-20K. (I don't see NFL-AAA being more popular than college football, but it could be up there with MLS).  Cities not already hosting an NFL franchise, obviously. Cities that have already shown they can sustain a professional (or major college) sports team. Easy access to transportation would be a necessity, too.

 

Thoughts?

[Pariah]

For optimum competitiveness and product quality, is even 32 teams too many? 

 

The league went for a long time with 30, back before adding the Jaguars and Panthers. Two conferences with three divisions of five teams each. I seem to recall dire predictions about the dilution of the talent pool back in the day. I don't know that it ever materialized. 

[Cancer]

What cities could we put a AAA football team in?

You;ll need to distinguish meaningfully between what you mean by that and Division I NCAA football, and I am not at all sure that's possible.

[Cancer]

Maybe ... maybe ... serious investment in research might do something for helmet technology that makes for meaningful reductions in intracranial injury. Given how little has been done in that regard while I've been watching football (Super Bowl I, plus a year or two), I actually think there's some appreciable gains to be made there. But I have doubts that it'll actually solve the problem (though it may submerge the effects for another generation). But something visible and drastic is needed to keep anything close to the status quo going.

[Old Man]

They're working on it.

 

That said I wonder if any helmet design can take all the CTE out of the game.

[Burrito Boy]

Would San Diego take them back?

I think San Diego would take the Chargers back. As long as they left Spanos in L.A.

[Michael Hopcroft]

They're working on it.

 

That said I wonder if any helmet design can take all the CTE out of the game.

I doubt it. In any collision sport (football, hockey, rugby, even soccer) you will have concussions. What makes it really bad for football, though, is the frequency with which the head is targeted for hits, and the use of the hardened helmet as a weapon. For example, it is considered a praiseworthy play to cause a fumble by using your helmet to knock the ball out of an opponent's hands -- beneficial when it happens, but incredibly risky.

 

Coaching are trying to limit the most obvious dangerous plays, but it will take at least tywo generations of players coming through the system for that to sink in and the NFL might not have that much time.

[Old Man]

You have a point, but I don't even think it's that.  From what I understand CTE is caused not by the occasional concussion but by routine low-level impacts to the head.  That's why it seems to afflict linemen disproportionally, and why I wonder if any helmet would really help.

[Badger]

The league went for a long time with 30, back before adding the Jaguars and Panthers. Two conferences with three divisions of five teams each. I seem to recall dire predictions about the dilution of the talent pool back in the day. I don't know that it ever materialized. 

 

Actually those were teams 29 and 30.  THey had 28 from TB/Sea up until then nearly 20 years.  (then they decided to placate Cleveland for 31, and I guess they didn't like uneven teams forcing bye-weeks every week, so pulled in Houston)

 

But, 30 teams does seem to work for NBA and MLB (apart from bitching about interleague) once they got the even division thing figured out

[Cancer]

It works for those leagues because their seasons are five or ten times as many games as the NFL's. At some point the NFL may have to fission back into two separate wings if it is to grow any larger.

[Pariah]

Actually those were teams 29 and 30. THey had 28 from TB/Sea up until then nearly 20 years. (then they decided to placate Cleveland for 31, and I guess they didn't like uneven teams forcing bye-weeks every week, so pulled in Houston)

D'oh! You are quite correct, of course. I had forgotten about Browns 2.0 and the Texans. So yeah, 28. That was a little awkward, with unbalanced divisions.

 

 

But, 30 teams does seem to work for NBA and MLB (apart from bitching about interleague) once they got the even division thing figured out

For the record, I despise interleague play in MLB. Of course, I also despise artificial turf and the Designated Hitter. I might be a Luddite, at least in terms of baseball.

[Pariah]

It works for those leagues because their seasons are five or ten times as many games as the NFL's. At some point the NFL may have to fission back into two separate wings if it is to grow any larger.

...or go to an 18-game regular season, which idea seems to come up from time to time. Always at the suggestion of the owners, not the players, it's worth noting.

[pinecone]

Would San Diego take them back? Is the Chargers brand so damaged nationally that they wouldn't succeed anywhere?

 

I don;t see the NFL adding more teams at any point, but if they want to get back into the good graces of fans in San Diego and St. Louis, expansion teams in those cities might be the way to go. It worked very well in Houston, but not necessarily so well in Cleveland.

 

What other cities could support the NFL? That's an intriguing question. With everything going on with CTE and other issues, and a seemingly inevitable work stoppage in the future, this would be a bad time for expansion.

Maybe they can work a trade? Raiders to LA, Chargers to Vegas, Rams to SD? After all nobody cares about fans, just Brand right...?    

[Badger]

I think San Diego would take the Chargers back. As long as they left Spanos in L.A.

 

Never take back a cheating spouse.