massey Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 4 hours ago, Cancer said: The service academies in particular have nonstandard constraints on their personnel: their ultimate institutional function and funding has no correlation to NCAA dollars. No Forrest Gump types there, fantastically gifted athletes who require full-time academic life support in special zero-challenge fake courses; they have to be able to cut it as military officers sooner rather than later. And at Air Force in particular, they have to fit physically into a warplane cockpit. No 330-pound linemen there, obviously. But your entire squad is going to be intelligent, and disciplined in a way no f'tbawl coach tyrant can ever develop (or recruit) in young people. So a complex offense and defense that makes mental requirements of everyone on the squad is not an issue. They have several problems keeping them from really competing. Their height and weight requirements mean they can never have linemen that are big enough. And as far as skill position guys go, they're never going to get anybody really elite because there's zero chance of going to the NFL. Also, no redshirting means that their players have less time to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 The service academies aren't trying to build championship-caliber sports teams, or recruiting that kind of player. Their priorities are massively different...and I seriously doubt they shave academics. These are Officer Candidates, first and foremost. WRT Potato Chip...the fast-break offense does kill defenses. It's also singularly ill-equipped to hold a lead, so it needs to be overwhelmingly effective. The triple option is hard on backs; you need considerable depth there. And the ball-handling is somewhat more error-prone. It's hard to find a good option QB, IMO. QB wants to throw, not pitch. And it's got the flip-side problem: it's a poor offense if you need to score in a hurry. I agree that the service academies probably like it because it's also an offense that plays well with smart players and strong teamwork, rather than pure athleticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted September 14, 2018 Report Share Posted September 14, 2018 10 hours ago, Cancer said: The service academies in particular have nonstandard constraints on their personnel: their ultimate institutional function and funding has no correlation to NCAA dollars. No Forrest Gump types there, fantastically gifted athletes who require full-time academic life support in special zero-challenge fake courses; they have to be able to cut it as military officers sooner rather than later. And at Air Force in particular, they have to fit physically into a warplane cockpit. No 330-pound linemen there, obviously. But your entire squad is going to be intelligent, and disciplined in a way no f'tbawl coach tyrant can ever develop (or recruit) in young people. So a complex offense and defense that makes mental requirements of everyone on the squad is not an issue. Agreed, except for the implied criticism of student athletes in other institutions. There are individual examples, but that was not my experience. Was surprised at the level of academic commitment and clarity that virtually all of them (at Oklahoma mind you) were not going on to the NFL. Maybe a handful on a squad of 80 scholarships go pro, the rest were getting their school paid for and playing football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 14, 2018 Report Share Posted September 14, 2018 Well, I admit my closest contact with a major collegiate football program was while I was at Texas (Austin), about which I know you have opinions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted September 14, 2018 Report Share Posted September 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Cancer said: Well, I admit my closest contact with a major collegiate football program was while I was at Texas (Austin), about which I know you have opinions.... Well, when you put it that way it makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted September 14, 2018 Report Share Posted September 14, 2018 12 hours ago, Cancer said: Well, I admit my closest contact with a major collegiate football program was while I was at Texas (Austin), about which I know you have opinions.... They play football there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 14, 2018 Report Share Posted September 14, 2018 They did back in late 1970s; I got there right after some dude named Earl Campbell graduated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 On 9/13/2018 at 4:10 PM, massey said: They have several problems keeping them from really competing. Their height and weight requirements mean they can never have linemen that are big enough. And as far as skill position guys go, they're never going to get anybody really elite because there's zero chance of going to the NFL. Also, no redshirting means that their players have less time to develop. Well, not zero chance, one occasionally sneaks in as a fringe player after their military obligations. And of course, there is Ali Villanueva (who was used some at WR there as a 6"10 280 lbs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 On 9/13/2018 at 5:23 PM, unclevlad said: The service academies aren't trying to build championship-caliber sports teams, or recruiting that kind of player. Their priorities are massively different...and I seriously doubt they shave academics. These are Officer Candidates, first and foremost. WRT Potato Chip...the fast-break offense does kill defenses. It's also singularly ill-equipped to hold a lead, so it needs to be overwhelmingly effective. The triple option is hard on backs; you need considerable depth there. And the ball-handling is somewhat more error-prone. It's hard to find a good option QB, IMO. QB wants to throw, not pitch. And it's got the flip-side problem: it's a poor offense if you need to score in a hurry. I agree that the service academies probably like it because it's also an offense that plays well with smart players and strong teamwork, rather than pure athleticism. Yeah, you have to remember a wishbone QB, is a running back who happens to be able to throw a smidgen. ANd they will get murdered during the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 Wishbone's not as bad on the QB; there's quite a bit of either handing off to the up back, or faking that and quickly pitching, using counter or trap action. But the pitch puts all 3 backs getting slammed...the up back is going into the line, the off back is lead blocking, and of course the pitch back has the ball. Classic comment was you needed 6 tailbacks for the wishbone. OK, fine, back in the day of 120 scholarships, and where the Oklahomas and Nebraskas and Ohio States *dominated* top-level recruiting AND could afford to develop them...it really was no joke to say that Oklahoma's second string would still be top 20. But fewer scholarships, somewhat faster player turnover, and the overall growth of the youth development programs means that, sure Alabama still gets the best of the best, but the talent pool's much more spread out than it was in the 70s. (And of course the money side. MUCH more TV money. MUCH more bowl money.) But yeah, the wishbone QB is mostly run-centric. And bloody few of em ever made it in the pros that I can recall, as QBs. Then again, can't ignore selective memory...because DAMN few QBs ever make it. Or maybe we should say, are ever seen again. Lots manage to hang on a few years as 2nd or 3rd stringers, then fade away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 Seems I remember 1-2 in the 1970s making it for a few years as backups, but I think they were regular-type QBs who happened they could run and got stuck in a college that had regime changes into wishbone offenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 Wow, Wisconsin dumps it to BYU at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 Big 10 is really down this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 Is it mean of me to suggest it be renamed the "Big--uh, math is hard" conference? Pariah and massey 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novi Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cancer said: Wow, Wisconsin dumps it to BYU at home. Yeah. Didn't catch much of the game, but what I did wasn't encouraging. Wish I knew if this was an omen or a wake-up call for Wisconsin. If nothing else, it does make me wish BYU this year, so that we lost to a worthy opponent. Pariah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted September 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 The one thing this demonstrates, if nothing else, is that I clearly know nothing about college football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 Meanwhile, Nebraska dumps it to ... The place Achilles and the Trojan Horse wiped out 3000 years ago? Yeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted September 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 Trickeration! massey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted September 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, Cancer said: Meanwhile, Nebraska dumps it to ... The place Achilles and the Trojan Horse wiped out 3000 years ago? Yeesh. I figured Nebraska would have a learning curve adjusting to Frost's system. I didn't think that learning curve was going to look like Mount Everest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted September 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 35 minutes ago, Starlord said: Big 10 is really down this year. The Big Ten's two newest members, Maryland and Rutgers, both lost today. Maryland got blown out by Temple. Even worse, Rutgers got waxed by... wait for it... Kansas. No, really. Incidentally, this gives Kansas a two-game winning streak. As far as I can recall, the last time Kansas had a two-game winning streak it was with Carry On Wayward Son and Dust in the Wind. massey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D. Hurricanes Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Pariah said: Incidentally, this gives Kansas a two-game winning streak. As far as I can recall, the last time Kansas had a two-game winning streak it was with Carry On Wayward Son and Dust in the Wind. Iuz the Evil and Pariah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Pariah said: The Big Ten's two newest members, Maryland and Rutgers, both lost today. Maryland got blown out by Temple. Even worse, Rutgers got waxed by... wait for it... Kansas. No, really. Incidentally, this gives Kansas a two-game winning streak. As far as I can recall, the last time Kansas had a two-game winning streak it was with Carry On Wayward Son and Dust in the Wind. Kansas' last two-game winning streak was during basketball season. Pariah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Pariah said: The Big Ten's two newest members, Maryland and Rutgers, both lost today. Maryland got blown out by Temple. Even worse, Rutgers got waxed by... wait for it... Kansas. No, really. Incidentally, this gives Kansas a two-game winning streak. As far as I can recall, the last time Kansas had a two-game winning streak it was with Carry On Wayward Son and Dust in the Wind. So Temple beat Maryland who beat Texas who is beating U$C? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted September 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 Investigation finds Maryland culpable in death of Jordan McNair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 Hey, OU is playing Army tomorrow. So I'll get to see the triple option on the field at an Oklahoma game after all. massey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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