Lucius

Give it a try and let us know how quickly your players can multiply by 1.75. And I have to ask - who uses the Hit Location chart and DOESN'T use the Impairing and Disabling rules, and why would you? Lucius Alexander Have you see the Hit Location Chart for the palindromedary?

I wouldn't recommend this build if you're planning to use it to stab someone. In the movie scene or scenes you're describing, did you think "Wow, look at Magneto casually lifting and moving around all those objects" or did you think "Wow, look at all those objects just floating around by themselves, I wonder what's causing that?" If your reaction was the latter, you want Invisible Power Effects. If your reaction was the former, you do not need Invisible Power Effects. Before I address that, I need to mention something important I forgot to say: The version with Ranged STR is technically a violation of the Rules as Written. I don't want anyone to think I am unaware of that rule, but I am willing to ignore it in some circumstances. As for my thinking, either Ranged STR or Area Effect STR arguably entail exerting STR against something without actually "touching" it, so being able to feel the object being handled would seem to call for a Sense Enhancer. For one thing, I see this as separate from the normal physical STR, such that this power would operate even if the character were paralyzed and unable to exert normal STR. Also, my version calls for only a STR of 3; if you want a Naked Advantage on a STR of 10, that's more expensive. You can also add the Reduced by Range Limitation to the Ranged version. Unified Power means that if any of the Powers that are Unified with one another is Drained, Dispelled, etc, then all are effected the same way. Lucius Alexander Invisible Palindromedary Effects

The only characters that have Resistant Physical Defense are characters written up on Hero System game terms. So any character in a comic book that has not yet been written up as a Hero System character is a character without Resistant PD. Iron Man had no Resistant PD until someone wrote him up. If there is a comic book character that has been written up without Resistant PD, I would argue that whoever did the write up didn't do it right. Wolverine has Resistant Protection defined as "Instant Healing." Many other characters would have Combat Luck. If you wanted to, you could write up a version of, say, Superman who doesn't have any Resistant PD. Most people would, I think, agree that it would be a ridiculous version of Superman. If you wanted to, you could write up Daredevil or Wolverine without Resistant PD too. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary buys an Attack vs Alternate Defense that only counts NON-resistant defenses, and declares "Resistance is Useless!"

....let me make sure I understand you. You're proposing to regularly multiply damage rolls by 1.25 or 1.75....and this is supposed to make the game run faster or simpler or less complicated or something? Lucius Alexander and one and three quarters palindromedaries

Okay, I admit I overlooked that one. But I suspect there won't be much difference between editions on these issues. For instance, I don't think you can get the effect you want with Extra Limbs with Indirect no matter which edition. I think what's going on with that is that we're thinking you SHOULDN'T have to endure Damage Shield damage and the like with the kind of power you describe, i.e. if Magneto picks up a red hot piece of iron nearby he shouldn't get burned like he would picking it up by hand, even if he can "feel" perfectly well what it is, where it is, and even how hot it is. So if your proposed build would end up with Magneto picking up the hot iron and yelling "Gaaahh! That's hot!" maybe that can be taken as a sign that you're not really building the power you envision. It's also been pointed out that there are ways to provide that sense of Touch and get around that objection. But you have a very good point with your next objection here, which I'm going to bold and underline for emphasis: There may not be a way to use Telekinesis to get that effect, so I think you have a strong point there that it may be a blind alley so to speak. It's the point that convinced me that Telekinesis isn't the way to go, unless whoever is running the game has already said they'll handwave that point. I have an idea how to build this now. edit: Here are two proposals. "She seems to have an Invisible Touch, yeah": (Total: 17 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) Extra Limbs (20) (5 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate, -1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4), Unified Power (-1/4), Limited Power Can't do damage or add to damage (-1/4) (Real Cost: 1) <b>plus</b> Range with Normal Touch (5 Active Points); Limited Power Extremely Limited Range (-1 1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4), Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 1) <b>plus</b> +3 STR, Area Of Effect (4m Radius Explosion; +0), Selective (+1/4), Indirect (Source Point can vary from use to use, path can change with every use; +1) (7 Active Points); Costs END To Maintain (Full END Cost; -1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Only with Extra Limbs (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), Nonpersistent (-1/4), Unified Power (-1/4), Limited Power Can't do damage or add to damage (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) "She seems to have an Invisible Touch, yeah": (Total: 17 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) Extra Limbs (20) (5 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate, -1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4), Unified Power (-1/4), Limited Power Can't do damage or add to damage (-1/4) (Real Cost: 1) <b>plus</b> Range with Normal Touch (5 Active Points); Limited Power Extremely Limited Range (-1 1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4), Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 1) <b>plus</b> +3 STR, Limited Range (+1/4), Indirect (Source Point can vary from use to use, path can change with every use; +1) (7 Active Points); Costs END To Maintain (Full END Cost; -1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Only with Extra Limbs (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), Nonpersistent (-1/4), Unified Power (-1/4), Limited Power Can't do damage or add to damage (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) If neither of those work, I suggest using Telekinesis after all but with some kind of Custom Adder or Advantage to do for it what Extra Limbs does for STR. Lucius Alexander Invisible Indirect Palindromedary

Does this character need Invisible Power Effects at all? Anyone can see the objects being held and moved, and it's probably also clear who is doing it as well. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary thinks I should try building it a couple of different ways

Ask Leningen Lucius Alexander The palindromedary says no, don't bug Leningen about it.

I'd make it a Killing Attack vs Limited Defense (you have to figure out what the defense is of course and it's probably an All or Nothing) and a Limitation of "Someone within (whatever distance or area you decide) must be wounded, only up to lower of: damage done to wounded person, or proportional damage done to wounded person." So if someone with BOD of 20 has taken a 10 BOD wound, you can't inflict that on a 5 BOD person to kill them outright; it will only do 2 or 3 BOD rounding down or up. But if the 5 BOD person has taken a 5 BOD wound and you want to inflict that on the 20 BOD person, they don't get a 20 BOD wound, just a 5 BOD one. Other Limitations to consider: Only can copy a given wound once. Healing the original wound heals the copy (possibly the other way around too.) Does no damage unless at least matches the original wound. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary wants to try Naked Advantage: Sticky, but that way lies madness

Something good? Isn't this the thread for villain teams? Don't you mean, something evil? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary says that something wicked this way comes

I googled "Disney princess jabba" and got an image of Rapunzel strangling Jabba with her hair. Lucius Alexander I wonder what I'd find if I googled "Disney princess palindromedary"

I don't see anything inconsistent in not using some factor in bullet physics to determine the basis for damage; I don't see where USFIBP is necessary to convert real world and fictional weaponry to game stats; and I'm afraid I don't know what you consider appropriate, but would be curious to hear you explain it. Lucius Alexander But I almost always consider a palindromedary tagline to be appropriate

There's a rule requiring you to use some factor in bullet physics to determine the basis for damage? Lucius Alexander There is no rule requiring me to use some factor in the content of the post to determine the basis for the palindromedary tagline.

You use a hit location chart consisting of "head" and "not head"? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary asks, which head?

Q: Why did the evil necromancer hire a bunch of Ulronai mercenaries? A: There are some things Ghouls just won't do. Lucius Alexander What does an Ulronai palindromedary call you?

What do you mean by "void?" Lucius Alexander The palindromedary goes to Japan to look it up

Phlogger Val Char Cost Roll Notes 20+25 STR 10 13- / 18- Lift 400.0kg/12.8tons; 4d6/9d6 [4] 8 DEX -4 11- OCV: 3/DCV: 1 5 CON -5 10- 8 INT -2 11- PER Roll 11- 13 EGO 3 12- ECV: 3 - 5 20 PRE 10 13- PRE Attack: 4d6 3 OCV 0 1 DCV -10 3 OMCV 0 5 DMCV 6 4 SPD 20 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12 6+5 PD 0 Total: 6/11 PD (5 rPD) 6+5 ED 0 Total: 6/11 ED (5 rED) 6 REC 2 25 END 1 20 BODY 10 Total Characteristic Cost: 25 Movement: Teleportation: 7m/56m Cost Powers END "It's life, captain, but not as we know it." 36 1) "An alien mind, yet it can communicate. It learns, but then it forgets": (Total: 86 Active Cost, 36 Real Cost) Mind Link , Any Willing Target, Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +¼), Uncontrolled (+½), Usable Nearby (+1), MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1) (56 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Side Effect affects both character and recipient of Power's benefits, Side Effect occurs when character stops using power; When anyone drops the link, everyone (including the one dropping) experiences Mental Illusions; -2), Always On (-½), No Range (-½), Perceivable (-¼) (Real Cost: 13) plus Rapid ( x100) with Mental Group, Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +¼), Usable Nearby (+¾), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used (20 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -¼), Physical Manifestation (-¼) (Real Cost: 13) plus Cramming (Real Cost: 5) plus Cramming (Real Cost: 5) 2 30 2) It can be hurt, yes.: (Total: 45 Active Cost, 30 Real Cost) Resistant Protection (5 PD/5 ED) (45 Active Points); Requires A Roll (13- roll; Must be made each Phase/use; -½) (Real Cost: 30) 0 16 3) "That's a weapon, easy to break but it just makes another one in seconds.": (Total: 52 Active Cost, 16 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6-1 (d6 - 1 / 1d6 w/STR), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+½), Penetrating (+½), Transdimensional (Related Group of Dimensions; +¾), Does BODY (+1), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Power Def; +1 ½) (52 Active Points); OIF Bulky Fragile (-1 ¼), STR Minimum 10 (-½), -2 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-½) (Real Cost: 16) 5 45 4) "You can't get used to it. Even a nonhostile one will drive you insane over time.": (Total: 45 Active Cost, 45 Real Cost) +5 PRE (Real Cost: 5) plus Damage Over Time, Target's defenses only apply once, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (33-64 damage increments, damage occurs every Turn, +5 ½) for up to 5 Active Points of PRE, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (40 Active Points) (Real Cost: 40) 0 Notes: Every Turn make another PRE attack, and add 1d6 each Turn 62 5) " A phlogger is always conscious, as far as we can tell": (Total: 62 Active Cost, 62 Real Cost) Life Support (Sleeping: Character only has to sleep 8 hours per year) (Real Cost: 2) plus Takes No STUN (Real Cost: 60) 0 6 6) "Sprouts limbs and organs at will..": Extra Limbs (100), Inherent (+¼) (6 Active Points) 0 4 7) "It LIVES out here between the worlds, do YOU think cold and heat bother it?": Life Support (Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat) 0 10 8) "One part of it is much like another": No Hit Locations 0 21 9) "They fear and hate fire. So do I, out here!": Regeneration (2 BODY per Turn) (32 Active Points); Does Not Work On Some Damage ([uncommon attack]; Fire; -½) 0 Notes: Does not regenerate fire damage - and it knows this -15 10) "Sages say their perceptions are completely alien": (Total: -4 Active Cost, -15 Real Cost) Blind and Deaf (-60 Active Points) (Real Cost: -60) plus Spatial Awareness (Mental Group), +3 to PER Roll, Discriminatory, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Perceive into a related group of dimensions, Telescopic: +3 (57 Active Points); Limited Power Cannot percieve the crystal spheres or anything inside them. (-¼) (Real Cost: 45) 0 Notes: "Sees not, hears not, yet it knows we are here and what we are. At least, as well as we know what IT is." 77 11) "I ain't sayin' it don't measure distance like we do, I'm sayin' it don't understand the CONCEPTS of distance or dimension!": (Total: 89 Active Cost, 77 Real Cost) Stretching 7m, x8 Noncombat, Does Not Cross Intervening Space (+¼), Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+¼) (25 Active Points); Concentration (½ DCV; -¼) (Real Cost: 20) plus Adjacent with Mental Group (Real Cost: 5) plus Teleportation 7m, x8 Noncombat (17 Active Points); Can Only Teleport To Floating Fixed Locations (-½), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼), Leaves A Trail (-0) (Real Cost: 10) plus Teleportation: Floating Fixed Location (1 Locations) (Real Cost: 5) plus MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1) for up to 25 Active Points of Stretching or Teleport, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (37 Active Points) (Real Cost: 37) 4 Notes: Parts of it, able to manipulate, strike, and percieve, can manifest at a distance from other parts of it, up to 7 kilometers. After being partially present in any location for a Turn, it may teleport the rest of itself to that location. 15 12) It has no constant shape: (Total: 46 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost) Shape Shift (Sight and Touch Groups, any shape), Persistent (+¼), Inherent (+¼), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (46 Active Points); No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1), Always On (-½), Affects Body Only (-½) (Real Cost: 15) 0 Notes: Its shape shifts, constantly 26 13) "If we're lucky, there's one way it can help....": (Total: 72 Active Cost, 26 Real Cost) Faster-Than-Light Travel (1 Light Years/week), Instant Lightspeed, Sticky (+½), Usable Nearby (+¾), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor controls the power totally, Grantor can only grant the power to others (72 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Only to Activate, -¾), Leaves A Trail (-½), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -¼), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Week which Recovers every 1 Week (-0) (Real Cost: 26) 7 26 It has no constant size: Multipower, 79-point reserve, (79 Active Points); all slots No Conscious Control (-2) 5v 1) As Big as Can Be: (Total: 75 Active Cost, 25 Real Cost) Growth (+30 STR, +10 CON, +10 PRE, +6 PD, +6 ED, +6 BODY, +12 STUN, +3m Reach, +24m Running, -12m KB, 801-6,400 kg, +4 to OCV to hit, +4 to PER Rolls to perceive character, 5-8m tall, 3-4m wide), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (75 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2) (Real Cost: 25) 0 5v 2) As Small as Can Be: (Total: 75 Active Cost, 25 Real Cost) Shrinking (0.0625 m tall, 0.0031 kg mass, -10 PER Rolls to perceive character, +10 DCV, takes +30m KB), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (45 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2) (Real Cost: 15) plus Density Increase (3,200 kg mass, +25 STR, +5 PD/ED, -10m KB), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (30 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2) (Real Cost: 10) 0 5v 3) Bigger than Can Be: (Total: 79 Active Cost, 26 Real Cost) Growth (+15 STR, +5 CON, +5 PRE, +3 PD, +3 ED, +3 BODY, +6 STUN, +1m Reach, +12m Running, -6m KB, 101-800 kg, +2 to OCV to hit, +2 to PER Rolls to perceive character, 2-4m tall, 1-2m wide), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (37 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2) (Real Cost: 12) plus MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1), Cannot alter scale (-¼); No Conscious Control (-2) for up to 37 Active Points of Growth, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (42 Active Points) (Real Cost: 42) 0 Notes: Up to 3 km across "You have roused its wrath!", all slots Only In Alternate Identity (-¼) 98 1) "Astral, Physical, Ethereal, it's all the same to the phlogger!": (Total: 196 Active Cost, 98 Real Cost) Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+½), Transdimensional (Related Group of Dimensions; +¾), Indirect (Source Point can vary from use to use, path can change with every use; +1); Only In Alternate Identity (-¼) for up to 50 Active Points of STR, Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+¼), Constant (+½) (196 Active Points); Concentration (½ DCV; -¼), Physical Manifestation (-¼), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -¼) (Real Cost: 112) 17 15 2) "It interacts with non-phlogistonic matter in ways hard to comprehend.": (Total: 52 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost) Severe Transform 1d6-1 (Any nonphlogiston into anything, Powerful magic, or lots of time), Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+¼), Partial Transform (+½), Sticky (+½), Constant (+½), Penetrating (+½), Improved Results Group (+1), Area Of Effect (16m Surface; +1) (52 Active Points); No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1), No Range (-½), Cannot Use Targeting (-½), STR Minimum 5 (-¼), Only In Alternate Identity (-¼) (Real Cost: 15) 5 Other Powers as needed Talents 3 Ambidexterity (no Off Hand penalty) Skills 3 Power: Phlogger 11- 10 Defense Maneuver I-IV Total Powers & Skill Cost: 503 Total Cost: 528 600+ Matching Complications 375 Base Points 10 Accidental Change: Berserk 8- (Common) 20 Physical Complication: No long term memory (Infrequently; Fully Impairing) 10 Vulnerability: 2 x Effect Double damage or effect from any attack with an attack roll of 3-5 (Uncommon) 15 Susceptibility: non-phlogistonic matter 1d6 damage per Minute (Very Common) 25 Enraged: Berserk in combat (Very Common), go 8-, recover 14- 25 Unluck: 5d6 20 Susceptibility: Mental contact deeper than EGO +10 1d6 damage per Segment (Uncommon) Total Complications Points: 528 Background/History: "If one rolls a pair of knucklebones enough times, evnetually, one will roll seven consecutive sevens. Blindfold and spin an archer then grant an endless supply of arrows, and the target will eventually be struck. That the ceaseless flux of quasi-substance that is Phlogiston should give rise to persistent and apparently 'living' entities seems remarkable only if one ignores its unthinkable vastness. The crystal spheres inhabited by our kind of life are but tiny bubbles widely seperated in an endless sea. That such things as phloggers exist is not some improbable marvel, but an inevitablility." Dwong Zuh. Personality/Motivation: "Judging by their behavior, some Phloggers are curious, some are indifferent, and others so irritated at non-phlogistonic life as to seek to drive it back to confinement in its proper spheres or to end its existence entirely." Mune the Mage Quote: (Always via mental communication) "How do you remain the same from moment to moment? WHY do you want to? That's wrong and unnatural!" (After a ship escapes into a crystal sphere) "Joy! The things that should not exist stopped existing!" (Phloggers do not percieve the spheres at all.) Powers/Tactics: "Their size, shape, and even abilities can change in the blink of an eye!" Many a panicked star sailor. Campaign Use: Driving home just how strange the phlogistonic realm is to normal mortals Appearance: "It is shaped like itself." Shakespeare Lucius Alexander Stranger than a palindromedary

Adaptive Defenses: (Total: 67 Active Cost, 30 Real Cost) Resistant Protection (5 PD/5 ED/5 Mental Defense/5 Power Defense), Allocatable (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Limited Power Automatically allocates to defend against any attack that does damage/has an effect (-1), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate or Consciously Allocate; -1/4), Extra Time (Extra Segment, Only to Activate or Consciously Allocate, -1/4) (Real Cost: 15) plus Special Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); Only Works Against Rare attack (Whatever last did damage (narrowly defined); -1) (Real Cost: 15) Lucius Alexander The palindromedary says I have Maladaptive Defenses

Any particular reason? There is a Power called Mental Defense that defends against Mental Attacks. Further, the Power Reisistant Protection can include a Mental Defense component and a Power Defense component, and can have an Advantage that makes the proportions of Energy, Physical, Mental, and Power Defense adjustable, and if you give it a Limitation so it automatically adjusts to whatever last hit it, that sounds like a good fit. Transform is usually not used to transform oneself. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary tells me that the Advantage I was thinking of is "Allocatable."

Something else I noticed at that site: There are a lot of questions obviously written by males and obviously assuming that they would be answered by males. Things like "...but you turn into a woman" or that otherwise just don't make any sense unless one presumes that no one presented with the question would actually already BE a woman. It's as if there are a lot of males who are somehow unaware that females use the internet too. Lucius Alexander I could understand not being aware of palindromedaries but how could someone overlook the possibility of a female reading something you're posting online??

I think I'll stick to calculating Active Points by adding up the Base Cost of the Power and the Adders and then multiplying by 1+Total Advantages. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary wants to calculate Inactive Points

I don't think I realized how many people were already using a roll high system. I still don't see a big problem with rolling low, but if someone does have a problem with it, sounds like the alternative really works. Lucius Alexander This is a palindromedary tagline, because that's how I roll

Wow. The Basic Set that came with the module In Search of the Unknown, aka Quasquaton. The reason I tell people I have actually never been to the Keep on the Borderlands because I got into D&D too EARLY for that module. Lucius Alexander That was be ore I had a palindromedary

I didn't make these two excellent points, but I will elaborate on them. But first, I acknowledge this great post from an intelligent Agent: That does look to me like it might work, BUT: I think if your goal is to teach new people to play Hero, it creates worse issues than it solves. You create a lot of work for yourself, you render the entire Hero library from rulebooks to bestiaries unintelligible to your players, you probably make Hero Designer useless or have to do a lot of work to use it (you'd have to heavily manually modify all of your character sheets) etc. And rolling low for task resolution has been around since 1st edition AD&D introduced thieves with percentile skills. It's not a difficult concept to grasp and I haven't known it to cause problems for gamers new to Hero. edit: or in any of the other games that use it for that matter. In other words, I think you're trading what is a small potential problem for a big guaranteed problem. Lucius Alexander A big guaranteed palindromedary tagline

I've been known to put Range on STR. But I'd probably go with the Indirect on Stretching. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary buys Extra Limbs, At Range, Indirect

Could they be cured by rendering them permanently deaf? Lucius Alexander Accidental Change to Palindromedary upon hearing the sound of one hand clapping