Duke Bushido

Buy 2 HKAs defined as swords...now you have Off Hand Defense.
 
A big use is for Teleport Locations.  For fixed locations, buy 5...then use Quantity.  It's x2 for 5 points...then x4 for 10, x8 for 15, etc. 
 
There are many powers where it won't make a lot of sense, or at least, won't make sense most of the time.  But it can always make sense with the right limits...basically, think Fantasy Hero, and single-use magical items.  That's why it's always included...better to have it and not need it.

Are you using HERO Designer?
 
If you're not, the easiest solution is to step back an edition or two and reinstate "Transfer."
 
 

Don't be a mutant.
 
There.  You got that one for free.
 

Are you using HERO Designer?
 
If you're not, the easiest solution is to step back an edition or two and reinstate "Transfer."
 
 

Don't be a mutant.
 
There.  You got that one for free.
 

As an alternative, instead of Drain BODY, you could do it with a Killing Attack, and similarly Aid the END Reserve.  The Killing Attack doesn't have to mess with Delayed Return Rate or halving its effect against Defensive Characteristics.
 
Replacing the Drain BODY 3d6 with an RKA 1 1/2d6, even switching it to AVAD (Power Defense) and Does BODY, drops that portion of it to 125 Active, and with the No Range, Concentrate (1/2 DCV throughout, -1/2), and Only Against Helpless Targets (-1) Limitations, it comes to 42 Real.  

I learn it from a heavily saturating rain,

As someone who doesn't use 6E, that was my first thought as well: Just use Transfer.

Are you using HERO Designer?
 
If you're not, the easiest solution is to step back an edition or two and reinstate "Transfer."
 
 

I would argue that just because you have a high PRE doesn't mean you have to use it anymore than a high STR character has to use their full STR.  And remember Acting is a PRE skill, so with a high PRE you could *act* like a inconsequential schlub. 🙂

The idea is that you set a basic Active Point level, and that powers higher than that have to take a lower Real Point limit at a rate of -1 Real Point per +1 Active Point.  It doesn't change how Limitations apply, so you'd have to reduce the Real Cost with whatever Limitations against the Active Points are necessary.  
 
For example:  a GM sets a 50 Active Point target for their game.  A power could have 60 Active Points, but a max of 40 Real Points; 75 Active Points with a max of 25 Real Points; or any combination.  
 
The GM could of course set limits so that ridiculous values aren't reached; the GM in the above example might set an absolute max of 80 Active Points with required Limitations to reduce that power down to 20 Real Points or lower.  
 

Ha!
 
Thanks, but that's not actually how I meant "that's out now."
 
I have intentionally avoided posting builds and my actual house rukes _for years_ for reasons that, in another thread, I have been being convinced arent valid anymore (well, I can think of two reasons that still exist, but they are in and out as the mood strikes them).
 
"That," in 'that's out now" refers to posting my own house rules; not frustration with the topic.  (That _particular_ 'that' is still bottled up nice and safe, deep inside next to the heart attacks, hair loss,  and shortness of breath, as it should be in any reasonable adult male.      )
 

I would pay for an all CLOWN version myself.
 
Hey, I need the residuals for Baloon-a-tic.

Too bad there isn't a mic drop emoji
 
 

Someone close to me asserted that Trump won. It really sucks when that ignorance/tribalism sits near to home.

Russian bounties on American soldiers?

I can't remember a specific instance, but Clark's been in fires, explosions, etc.  It doesn't have to be a fight;  he can be in a damaging situation at any time.
Heck, to keep it topical...Superman is immune to disease.  Clark can catch Covid-19.
Clark has also used his super-speed to vanish then reappear as Superman.
Clark knows everything Superman knows, and vice versa...so Clark can investigate under the radar in ways Superman never can.
So it does matter.  
 
I think the single biggest 'mistake' in 6E is Mulitform...even in its more basic forms.  As Duke noted, it's just begging for a tree-like spread.  Even if they're all the same base cost, altho it gets easier with higher-level characters.  But, say you have 400 points.  85 points for 4, 400 point variants...but that's before limitations.  How about Concentration and Extra Segment to activate?  There's a half limit that shouldn't be too much of a hassle.  Now it's 57 points.  So my base form is on 343.  I can build a nice martial artist type, with very good infiltration or intel-gathering skills as well.  Then a desolid form to facilitate infiltration.  Then, let's go with a blaster type with flight for the combat form.  And I've got something left for whatever might appeal.  

I could also work on other limitations...how about time limit, 24 hours?  -3/4 on 85 should be 49.  Now I have 351.

And that's not even getting into the worst aspect, where the main form can just drop 200 points to get a 1000 point alternate form.  But, it should be a given...this is something that should never be allowed for PCs, and RARELY used with NPCs.  

Multiform should probably be a STOP power, but IMO the GM has an obligation to say No to obnoxiously rude stuff regardless.
 

This is something that trips up a lot of new players, I have noticed, and frankly, deserves to be repeated.
 
 
 
And this is something that trips up a lot of GMs, new or otherwise, and _also_ deserves to be repeated.
 
That second one seems to be a bigger issue since the advent of "reach into your pocket and talk to a thousand strangers."  Things like this board-- wonderful tools that they are-- have serious consequences as well.  Once we start talking about "well the book says" and then we get into discussion where we all agree "well, yes; that is what the book says" and we start making unconscious efforts to play in ways that we perceive to be similar to or at least "approved of by" relative strangers who, realistically, will never sit at a table with us---  we start to emphasize the _letter_ of the law versus the over-all point of the law.
 
Everyone has, at one time or another-- even me-- gotten all uppity and hoity-toidy and from behind our sneering disdain whipped out "A limitation that doesn't limit is worth no discount."
 
Folks, I tend to find Multiform dumps easily into the category.  The whole construct "Multiform" is just points on trees.  "You'll have to buy that skill twice" isn't that much of a deterrent if you're buying it the second time for 1/5 of the actual cost  (Yeah-- don't start.  I know "that both forms pay full price," but what do you pay for that entire second form?  one for five of everything that's on that form.  That's it.  Everything on there is 1/5 cost.  If (going 4e here; if it's changed in later editions, ignore this part) you happen to have more than one form, the third and greater forms are paying _one tenth_ the actual price.
 
One-for-Five is a -4 Limitation.  Minus FOUR!   I can get a -2 for "only under a full moon!"  I bet I can get into that other form more frequently than that!.
 
Certainly we can say "well, the Hero form doesn't get the skills of the base form."  Well...   if he really needs it, it's what?  A half-a-Phase away?  Go whole hog!  Perhaps if the other form doesn't have the memories of the base form, either.  Neither the memories nor the motivations.  Then I might buy a -4:  "Well, there's a chance that if I yell "Shazam," I might never come back.  I might forget who I am or why I summoned Captain Marvel!  Suppose he forgets I exist?  I might never be Billy Batson again!"  That's pretty risky; I might go up a bit on the Limitation for that.  _Possibly_-- and only _possibly_ a -4.
 
Here's the thing:
 
"You're all gathered in a tavern."  
 
When the adventure starts, half the players are going to be hanging out at the team base.  More than half, perhaps.  Uh-oh!  I need my PowerDude persona!
 
You're hanging out at the team base as...  not PowerDude?  Doubtful. But if you are, then it's a better-than-good chance that your teammates are well-aware that you are, in fact, PowerDude.  There is nothing stopping you from changing into PowerDude.  Honestly, this is probably the safest place you could actually do that.
 
How else do games start?  PowerDude in on patrol over Megalopolis when suddenly--
 
Oh.  Already PowerDude.  Already accessing all those -4 Limitation powers.  Didn't have to change or nuthin'....   cool.  Nah, it's cool.
 
To be fair:  There might be people out there who enjoy roleplaying the day job, typing up those QSP reports, rolling dice to see what you misfiled, and paying the bills.  Two or three sessions from now, you might access your PowerDude form.  You'll have to be sneaky, though: Ben from accounting has been putting those little cameras in the cubicles and posting those creepy "candid day job" videos to the 'net.   Jimmy and Kate got fired, so you _know_ there's one in the broom closet....
 
Most of us didn't make superheroes to play, if I may borrow the line, "Houses and Humans."  We made superheroes to play superheroes, and that's what we're going to play.  Most GMs don't want to run Houses and Humans  (and again, if that's your bag, go for it:  frankly, you're helping my case a bit).
 
So why is this worth a -4 to begin with?!   Get a third and subsequent form for a minus NINE limitation!  Just run through the book and grab all the -1/4 limitations you can find and see what sort of problems you're going to have with a power by the time you get it to -4, let alone -9!
 
And the only drawback you're really going to encounter is that perhaps twice a session you have to pay lip service to hiding around the corner before yelling Shazam.
 
 
Yes: the book says Multiform is -4, but couches it as "Five for one."  The "limitaiton" is that you can't use the skills / abilities of the other form.  The book also says that changing forms "might take a half phase."  MIGHT!  (5e; I wasn't wading through 6e for this discussion).  It might _not_ take a half phase.
 
If I put "takes a half phase to use my MegaBuster," can it get a -4 on it?  Of course not.
 
So...   
 
Honestly: how many people here play Multiform in such a way as to justify this extreme cost reduction?   How do you do it?   Time limits on the form is cool.  Difficulty changing is cool.  Cool-down periods; those are excellent:  Only once per day, something like that?
 
 
But wait!  Since Multiform is a _power_ (I swear to Pete it should be classed as a Framework if it continues on into the next edition), I can add all those things _to_ it, and make it even cheaper!  This just can't lose.....
 
 
And of course, the savvy Min/Max guy will note that while in SuperDude form, you are locked away from your Normal Joe form; shouldn't you get some kind of reciprocal discount on that?  It's the same thing!  In fact, you are likely going to spend _way_ more time as SuperDude during play than you are as Normal Joe, so that discount should be even bigger!
 
We don't play out the bulk of the character's everyday life.  We just don't.  We play out the bulk of their adventurous life.  As such, how much of a disadvantage is it to be "locked away" from Superform if we are going to spend the bulk of playtime _in_ superform?   You know the saw:  A limitation that doesn't limit, etc, etc.
 
So what's a realistic value for this?
 
We'll get there.
 
I have stated before that Multiform and Shapeshift both most likely came about because people forgot about "only in HERO (alternate / appropriate) Identity (form)."
 
_That_ Limitation has been around since 1e Champions.  Strangely (I haven't responded because I've been re-reading the book to be sure), it seems to have skipped 3e Champions-- and 3e Champions and other 3e books are where 4e came from, right?  Well 4e introduced Multiorm.  (I seem to recally it may have appeared in Champions 3, but I haven't the time or energy left to check that.  Feel free to prove me wrong, though).
 
Only in HERO ID is, of course, _not_ Multiform, in as much as it doesn't automatically rule out using David Banner's brains while he's the Hulk, right?
 
So what's a good value for a limitation- like Multiform-- that is more set-dressing and off-camera storyline than a serious inconvenience?
 
I'm thinking about -1/4.
 
Why am I thinking that?
 
Because that's what the original value was:  Only in Hero ID (now called "only in alternate id," I believe) was worth -1/4.  Strangely, it still is.   Best of all, it only locks out what you want it to lock out, and you decide by putting it on what you want to lock out.  Don't want Banner's Brains while you're hulked out?  Then put "Only in appropriate ID" in his INT, too (or maybe his INT above 8 or so).  Don't want Hulk's superleaping while you're studying all things science?  Fine.  Only in appropriate ID.
 
Not only does it more accurately model the _real_ limitation that the  character is enduring, it works just the way that Munchkin Man has postulated for years:  He can get the same discount for the things he can't access while he is SuperDude.
 
 
Now, for those who are interested, spurred on by comments in another thread and the noticeable absence of certain individuals of late, let me show you sort of what I've been doing for years-- don't get me wrong: I still have the periodic multiformer, but we do 4e rules, where the most expensive form pays for all others, regardless of which is the "base" or "true" form.  (In practice, that has seriously shut down the amount of munchkinny uses for multiform, but your mileage will no doubt vary)
 
 
Only in Appropriate Form:  -1/4
 
Cumulatively modified as follows:
 
Character has a secret Identity:.........................................-1/4
Character has more than one form in which 
Power is not available..........................................................-1/4
 
Requires Full Turn to change form:.....................................-1/4
Requires more than 1 minute to change:...........................-1/2
 
Requires complex "ritual" or external
components to achieve change of forms..........................-1/4
 
Character can be prevented from changing
forms by relatively obvious or simple means.....................-1/4
Character can be prevented from changing
forms by relatively obvious _and_ simple means...............-1/2
 
Character may maintain appropriate form 
indefinitely............................................................................-(-1/4)
Character may only maintain appropriate form
For one day.................................................................................0
Character may only maintain appropriate form
for one hour.............................................................................-1/4
Character may only maintain approrpiate form 
for five minutes......................................................................-1/2
 
Character can only change forms once per hour...............-1/4
Character can only change forms once per day................-1/2
 
There. 
 
That's it.
 
That's how the House Bushido Playgroups do both Multiform and Shapeshift.
 
You can take the original -1/4 and have only -1/4's worth of problems, or you can run it up to as high as -3, only with your problems spelled out for you, so that we both know what to do to create the actual limitation you're taking.  This system let's you take bonuses by "locking out" each form away from the other: Jekyl is discounted for being locked away from Hyde; Hyde is discounted for being locked away from Jekyl.
 
And _no one_ is getting -4 for this, let alone -9.
 
(for rare concepts, I have allowed the Only in appropriate form to start at -1/2 instead of -1/4.  Even then, max possible bonus is less than -4!).
 
 
 
Well, that's out now.
 
 
😕
 
 
 

But, I enjoy all of those, With taste intact...?

No argument on the rigidity of the rules: the inability to increase your END-- that alone kills off more exotic ideas.
 
But again, to be fair: the author stated pretty early on that he was re-crafting the rules to create the sorts of games he enjoyed playing in his past.  If we assume that he nailed this goal (and presumably he wouldn't have released it if he hadn't gotten it where he wanted it yet), then we can also assume that he played _a lot_ of tactical, evade, hide, recoup, and shoot from cover with the element of surprise sort of.....  superheroes?....
 
I'm with you in spirit:  It's not my cup of tea (and, given its stated old-editions base, I was really, _really_ stoked for it when I found out about it), and I've actually played in just those types of games!  They were fun then, sure-- but really, that was pretty much all RPGs in the day: D&D?  Take a chance; roll a save.  Maybe.    Traveller?  I don't think a better fast-resolution "wow; guns are dangerous!" system was designed for several years after the release of Traveller, honestly.
 
Champions now is, in some ways, the essence of my memories of early RPGs, and of course, Champions in particular.
 
 
Just not the ones that make me smile.
 
 
And yes: the rules do feel like something of a straight jacket to keep you locked in those shoot-from-cover scenarios your 250-pt hero might find himself in if he tried to take on two whole villains at once, or even six thugs.  But after that, we learned the nuances of the game, and our fun grew.  Champions Now just stops you right there in the early stages.  It's fun; it's just not the fun I enjoy remembering of the early edition games.
 
 
That's all.
 
 
(and bring Phoenix Wright back!  Or at least put on a blue suit.    )
 
 

I didn't mean to suggest that Ron was the only one making it harder to get into champions. The 6th edition basic rules are, for lack of a better word, monolithic in both scope and page count. The Champions book, as you suggest, is little better. Champions Complete is just about right. And while it is possible to generate characters without buying the software, I don't know a lot of people who are willing to do it.
 
Of course, the advantage is is that with that monolithic rule set you can pretty much create anything you want. Yes, it's a lot more complex, but it's also a lot more flexible.
 
But looking at CNow compared to Champions 3rd Edition (which is how the Kickstarter was presented, incidentally), and the tradeoff is not equivalent. It takes about the same time and effort to create a character in Champions Now as it does / did in 3rd Edition, but CNow is nowhere near as flexible. And that's not a bug, it's a feature. It was designed not to be as flexible. And that's the thing that I find frustrating. It's not really suited to creating the kinds of superheroes that new fans to the genre are seeing now. And given the name and the stated philosophy (e.g., the constant emphasis on The Now), I think it's really unfortunate.
 
(In my case this is largely academic, my gaming group is two counties away and I haven't been up there in a couple of years. But if I brought this up there to them, I know they would want to play it--even though many of them have been reading comics since the 70s--because it's just not flexible enough.)

It doesn't offend me at all.  It's a game and anyway you want to play it is cool, especially if you enjoy it.  I was just commenting on what I thought was the subject and what to me didn't seem to be a good example. 
 
I try to comment on my opinions of how I see the rules.  I may correct someone on what I am attempting to say about my opinion, but I will never tell someone how they can or cannot play their own game. 

To me, the sentence I bolded is the reason why I *wouldn't* do that as a Mutiform.  If they're the same guy, just different clothing, then it's not really a different form (unless the "clothing" is what provides the powers, a la Iron Man).  And I would say that any inability or disinclination to use contacts or skills as either Clark or Supes is just part of the limitations caused by a Secret Identity.  Of course, YMMV, and I can understand some of the logic of why you might feel that way.  But I disagree.