Kristopher Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 I was poking around the 2005 release schedule, and noticed "Teen Champions" listed for early 2005. So I figured, what the heck, let's get an early start on putting our $.02 in. I'll start off with a suggestion to keep the entire range of the subgenre in mind. I don't think it's at all possible to do some of the teen / young adult superhumans depicted in comics justice with the 125 + 75 guidelines for teen heroes suggested on page 115 of Champions Universe. Anyway, I hope DoJ keeps this on the schedule, as it represents a significant part of the comics. Off the top of my head, there's a large chunk of the X-Men and their related series (New Mutants, Generation-X), the New Warriors, and the Teen Titans. Am I missing any good examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 The Weinbergs, Infinity Inc, perhaps. Heck you could say that the Legion of SUperheroes has been something of a Galactic Teen Hero comic. Early Spiderman Robin Young Justice The current Batgirl Speedball (when he had his own series) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Never read it, but I assume Ninja High School would fit in well. Oh, and a lot of the early Impulse issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Both the original X-Men lineup, and starting Spiderman, were originally teens... There's the sidekicks of existing heroes - a good way to slot a whole team of heroes into CU. Who are the existing "Avengers/JLA" equivalent in the CU? There's the Academy (X-Men, New Mutants, Gen-X, Hogwarts) There's the streetgang-turned-hero-or-vigelante (Blood Syndicate). Of course, there's also the Power Pack, but that's more Pre-Teen Champions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions Originally posted by Kristopher Off the top of my head, there's a large chunk of the X-Men and their related series (New Mutants, Generation-X), the New Warriors, and the Teen Titans. Am I missing any good examples? All those are great examples. Currently, the best teen comic I'm reading is Runaways from Marvel comics. Six children, ages 11 - 17, discover their parents are supervillains banded together in some sort of conspiracy, and and kids run away from home, determined to fight their parents. Each of the kid's parents fall into a Marvel archetype: crime lords (ala the Kingpin), mutant telepaths, alien agressors, evil mystics, mad scientists, and time travlers -- and the kids are discovering their own powers that are in a similar vein to their parents. The story moves kind of slow from issue to issue, but it's laugh-out-loud funny at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Then there's the Hero High cast from Kid Superpower Hour. It had more cheese than the entire state of Wisconsin plus the Oregon coast (Tillamook and Bandon), but it was fun nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 OK, now that we have an idea of what books this is supposed to emulate, some of "what I want to see": "Sidekicks: Growing up in a Hero's shadow" - tips for making sidekick characters in various stages (just starting, full partner stage, "moving out"). Challenges and opportunities that come with the tights. "Teen Champions Challenges" - teen heroes have to deal with what other heroes have to deal with, and have other problems on top of that. Less respect from authority figures/adult heroes, schoolwork, parents,general teenage BS. Can YOU handle the school bully without using your fire powers? "High School Today" - problems/issues/overview of high school life/issues in general, and in sub-genres - private/public, suburb/inner city, poor vs well-funded. Be careful about keeping your costume in your bookbag with the drug searches going on... "Millenium Central" - example high school, with maps, some staff/teachers/students laid out. ("normal" high school, not a Ravenswood Academy thing) "Ravenswood Academy" - the special school for teens with powers. "Teen Enemies" - ideas for teen-specific plots. Teachers being taken over by aliens. Superpowered teen gang making problems...and looking for new recruits. Master villain looking for what he thinks will make more impressionable lackeys, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Originally posted by Supreme Serpent OK, now that we have an idea of what books this is supposed to emulate, some of "what I want to see": "Sidekicks: Growing up in a Hero's shadow" - tips for making sidekick characters in various stages (just starting, full partner stage, "moving out"). Challenges and opportunities that come with the tights. "Teen Champions Challenges" - teen heroes have to deal with what other heroes have to deal with, and have other problems on top of that. Less respect from authority figures/adult heroes, schoolwork, parents,general teenage BS. Can YOU handle the school bully without using your fire powers? "High School Today" - problems/issues/overview of high school life/issues in general, and in sub-genres - private/public, suburb/inner city, poor vs well-funded. Be careful about keeping your costume in your bookbag with the drug searches going on... "Millenium Central" - example high school, with maps, some staff/teachers/students laid out. ("normal" high school, not a Ravenswood Academy thing) "Ravenswood Academy" - the special school for teens with powers. "Teen Enemies" - ideas for teen-specific plots. Teachers being taken over by aliens. Superpowered teen gang making problems...and looking for new recruits. Master villain looking for what he thinks will make more impressionable lackeys, etc. Geez louise... the Supreme Serpent is obviously spying on me.... All of the above will be covered in detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Originally posted by allen Geez louise... the Supreme Serpent is obviously spying on me.... All of the above will be covered in detail. Good, good... Oh, and if you need an undercover VIPER recruiter for "Career Day", I can arrange for one to swing by... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted February 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions One of the things I love about HERO and DoJ is the ongoing feedback and contact between the players and the creators. Post a thread about an upcoming book, and the author is sure to show up. Since you're here, Allen, I'd like to get your opinion on my suggestion: Originally posted by Kristopher I'll start off with a suggestion to keep the entire range of the subgenre in mind. I don't think it's at all possible to do some of the teen / young adult superhumans depicted in comics justice with the 125 + 75 guidelines for teen heroes suggested on page 115 of Champions Universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions Originally posted by Kristopher I'll start off with a suggestion to keep the entire range of the subgenre in mind. I don't think it's at all possible to do some of the teen / young adult superhumans depicted in comics justice with the 125 + 75 guidelines for teen heroes suggested on page 115 of Champions Universe. Well, I'm a little hesitant to speak to this topic in detail or with any kind of certainty, since I haven't really worked through my ideas in any sort of systematic way or anything; but my initial comments on this are twofold... First, like with any "standard" point guideline, it's going to be hard to create any and all PCs exactly like what's in the comics. For instance, it's hard to do the Avengers with 350-point characters -- (trying to avoid controversy here) Thor is obviously more points than Hawkeye. So yeah, characters like Superboy, Kid Flash, and Wonder Girl might be hard, if not impossible, with 200 points; but characters like those from The New Mutants, when considered as portrayed in the Graphic Novel and Issue #1 of the series, work at 200 points I think. They don't have a lot of skills; they're always running out of Endurance (i.e., "too tired to use my powers"); their powers have lots of disadvantages lowering the Real Point cost; etc. Second, the other thing to consider is Experience Points and improvement. Adolescence is a time of considerable and rapid change, and in my opinion the same should hold true of the superpowers wielded by adolescent superheroes. Because of these rapid changes: (1) At 200-points, a PC has plenty of room to grow and expand his powers. (2) It also allows the GM to award "greater-than-normal" Experience Point awards (qualifier: at the GM's discretion of course). These increased Experience Awards help to model/emulate the dramatic changes brought about by adolescence, w/o turning the teenage PCs into worldbeaters too quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 > Viper and/or UNTIL slip psychological tests into schools to > identify miscreants who can be turned into "their kind" of > people, whereupon they induce superpowers. VIPER doesn't really need to risk this much to find 'their kind' of people -- all they have to do is surf school disciplinary and police juvenile records, looking for repeat offenders with the right profiles. VIPER's policy of "recruit from jail" works just as well at the teen level as at the adult level noawadays. (Digression -- personally, my idea of the perfect VIPER recruiter is the 'crooked parole officer'. Corrupt VA psychologists would be a close second.) At least as far as US schools are concerned, UNTIL is massively unlikely to try this for two very simple reasons -- 1) there's no way in hell that a US school board or the Department of Education will give them permission, even not-publicly-announced permission, to do so officially, and 2) if they do so unofficially and get caught, the entire UNTIL Treaty is down the toilets -- the political fall-out from UNTIL running a 'black op' on the US school system would be immense beyond belief. From a cost-benefit analysis POV, there's simply no rationality behind this action... the possible benefit of gaining a few recruits simply isn't worth the risk of completely destroying ten years' worth of favorable diplomatic relations. PRIMUS, OTOH, obviously doesn't have to worry one single damn bit about getting US government position to do this... (Actually, if I were PRIMUS, I'd do my best to get the JROTC program back into as many high schools as possible, and quietly 'piggyback' on the test results and evaluations of that program.) PS -- and, of course, for any developing nation where the UN relief organizations are what's helping /build/ the school system, UNTIL obviously can worm its way in all it damn well feels like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vex Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 My Thoughts First off, I think Buffy the Vampire Slayer would be a very good basis for a teen super hero campaign and should probably be covered. The first three seasons all took place in high school, the fourth took place in college and the focus of season 7 was at high school again. I would consider amending the experience issue, not by giving them double experience, but maybe giving normal amounts of experience and then the GM keeping a side pool of "radiation accident" only experience points. That way the characters can continue to grow and become more skilled and you still have an avenue for unexpected/uncontrolled advancement of their powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 As long as source material for a Teen Champions game have been cited, I'd like to put in a word for Aaron Allston's fine adventure for GURPS Supers, School of Hard Knocks. It features among other things a gang of teen super-thieves, several maps including a high school and a shopping mall, and an origin mechanism for new supers, especially in a particular area. Of course, as an Allston book it's high quality. AA has a bunch of these available for sale on his website, http://www.aaronallston.com , for a mere $7.00. Mr. Allston also offers a free Gaming Download file converting the characters to 4E HERO, with notes on how these characters fit into his Strike Force campaign world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted February 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Re: Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions Originally posted by allen Well, I'm a little hesitant to speak to this topic in detail or with any kind of certainty, since I haven't really worked through my ideas in any sort of systematic way or anything; but my initial comments on this are twofold... First, like with any "standard" point guideline, it's going to be hard to create any and all PCs exactly like what's in the comics. For instance, it's hard to do the Avengers with 350-point characters -- (trying to avoid controversy here) Thor is obviously more points than Hawkeye. So yeah, characters like Superboy, Kid Flash, and Wonder Girl might be hard, if not impossible, with 200 points; but characters like those from The New Mutants, when considered as portrayed in the Graphic Novel and Issue #1 of the series, work at 200 points I think. They don't have a lot of skills; they're always running out of Endurance (i.e., "too tired to use my powers"); their powers have lots of disadvantages lowering the Real Point cost; etc. Second, the other thing to consider is Experience Points and improvement. Adolescence is a time of considerable and rapid change, and in my opinion the same should hold true of the superpowers wielded by adolescent superheroes. Because of these rapid changes: (1) At 200-points, a PC has plenty of room to grow and expand his powers. (2) It also allows the GM to award "greater-than-normal" Experience Point awards (qualifier: at the GM's discretion of course). These increased Experience Awards help to model/emulate the dramatic changes brought about by adolescence, w/o turning the teenage PCs into worldbeaters too quickly. Two very good points. As long as you've got both sides of the issue in mind as you're writing, I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 If you're gonna use Buffy as an inspiration for teen hero campaigns, I'd suggest limiting your focus to BtVS seasons 1-3. After that, the tone of the show shifted away from teen heroism and on to, well, other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Does anyone remember a module...called Bad Medicine for Dr. Drugs....or something like that? That was an excellent example of "Teen Champions". Some very interesting character concepts...if I remember correctly. It's been ages since I've seen it. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Mann Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Teen Heroes Through The Ages The role and expectations for teen sidekicks has changed since Robin first put on his tights. In the 60s, finding out that Speedy was on drugs was a major shock. Nowadays, finding out that Speedy is on drugs is no biggie. How To Get Training So you've just discovered that you can fly and talk to birds, how do you get the training you need to become Birdman, Feather of Justice! And how to schedule it in with school, girlfriend, the baseball team, and community choir practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 The Xmen Evolution and Static Shock animated shows might make for good inspiration for a Teen Champions game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BishopofB&W Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 In Busiek's Astro City, there is a club called Butler's where superheroes can mingle in their civvies. The busboys (and girls) are there hoping to be noticed and recruited as sidekicks. The book How to be a Superhero has an hilarious section on the do's and don'ts of picking a boy or girl wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 The Xmen Evolution and Static Shock animated shows might make for good inspiration for a Teen Champions game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Originally posted by BishopofB&W The book How to be a Superhero.... Where's this book from? I'm not sure I've heard of it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 As the sole Valiant Comics fan of old on these boards, I must suggest Harbingers at least as yet another example of teen supers. However, I was never a huge Harbinger fan and think that the early New Mutants and to a lesser extent New Warriors did the teen supers bit about as well as it has ever been done. Add in Batman Beyond and Smallville too in case someone else hasnt already mentioned them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted February 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by Stephen Mann Teen Heroes Through The Ages The role and expectations for teen sidekicks has changed since Robin first put on his tights. In the 60s, finding out that Speedy was on drugs was a major shock. Nowadays, finding out that Speedy is on drugs is no biggie. And it's not just the sidekicks. Some of the subject matter in series and issues dealing with teen supers has changed. The X-Men has some of the teen students taking and even dealing drugs, knocking each other up, betraying each other, etc. Robin's comrade...what's here name, in the purple, has a supervillain dad, and got pregnant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by Kristopher Robin's comrade...what's here name, in the purple, has a supervillain dad, and got pregnant. Stephanie Brown, aka 'The Spoiler'. OTOH, she's also been ably fighting her supervillain dad, and AAMOF he's the main reason she got into the costume in the first place. Having lived first-hand with how supervillainy wrecks innocent lives, she just can't stand the idea of it. (It was a while before she actually consciously articulated that motive to herself, but it had been driving her all along.) Or to quote Steph herself -- "I've always wanted to be a superhero. Blame it on negative role modeling." As for the teen-aged pregnancy... yes, she got pregnant in a stupid way. OTOH, how she handled the crisis, and how well and how quickly she matured under it, showed her to be the most admirable type of person. She might have started out immature, but she didn't stay there very long. Edit -- of course, she won't be getting any more character growth *now*, having first been regressed into a complete idiot and then killed off in an exceptionally pointless (and rather gruesome) fashion in "War Games". *hates Bat-Editors* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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