THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Steve Long]

I could've sworn I did one of these threads some months ago, but I can't find it. I figure even if I did, another one can't hurt.

 

Tomorrow I'll be starting on the development of The Ultimate Brick, which looks at the subject of Strength and characters who have a lot of it. Like our other Ultimate books, it will cover relevant rules in general and characters in all genres, but obviously STR offers the most options when you have a lot of it, so a majority of the examples and abilities are likely to have the most utility in Champions.

 

So, what do you want to see in this book? Before you reply, please take a look at this brief rundown of what the book is already slated to contain, so you don't waste time asking for something I'm already planning to include:

 

--expanded rules for and regarding STR (including reprinting the basic rules from 5E, then punching 'em up with Rules FAQ info, and whatnot)

 

--guidelines, suggestions, and tips for building bricks (everything from archetypes, to notes about game elements that frequently apply to bricks, to appropriate Disadvantages for bricks)

 

--all the "brick tricks" David and I can possibly think of (everything from the USPD, expanded, and then added to until my brain starts to pop from the pressure of thinking up brick tricks)

 

--guidelines, suggestions, and tips for running/using bricks in the campaign (including combat expansions and options, etc.)

 

--sample characters to provide some examples of using the book (including some "reworked" versions of existing brick NPCs)

 

So, is there anything else y'all would like to see included?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Not for my own benefit, but to cover a common want in players -- one of the HERO System no-nos, methods to cover "invulnerability"

 

Roles Bricks can fill in a group beyond just acting as a bullet sponge and a heavy lifter.

 

Coverage of the aspects of "brickness", weighting toughness vs str/damage infliction.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

First and above all, I'd like to see plenty of things for the (theoretical) Korundar or Heavy in my Star Hero campaign -- and of course equally good material for their counterparts in Fantasy Hero, or brutes in Pulp Hero, and the like. Bricks are so easy to relegate to superherodom, at least in the minds of gamers who forget about characters like Hercules, Chewbacca, B. A. Baracus, and their kin.

 

Some, or even most, of those USPD expansions can include options explicitly constructed for heroic-level characters.

 

It would be good to have some general "brick tricks" that don't cost points, but are best done by characters with at least 18 STR. This would include things the GM can do for heroic-level PCs who have high STR, but really not much else brick-like on the character sheet, and want to have the opportunity to show off their ability.

 

How about some sort of chart giving a reason to buy STR in numbers that don't end with 0, 3, 5, or 8? Buying 19 STR instead of 18 STR does give +1 STUN; how about a little more information on intermediate lifting ability, intermediate damage amounts, and the like? What might make it worth the character's while to go to 19 STR, but not all the way to 20 (while still making it worth another character's while to go to 20)?

 

That's what comes to mind right at present. I might work up some more at a later time.

[SAVeira]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think might be nice to have information various DEF of everyday objects. Like just how much STR does it take to make coal into diamonds, tear open a bank vault or ripe up the pavement. It is all stuff that one can break that makes being a brick fun.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I strongly agree with the suggestions made so far.

 

I'd like to see an exploration of the psychological and social implications of being a "brick." How do people view someone with exceptional strength? What are the stereotypes, and how does a brick deal with them - resentment? Use them to his advantage? For the really superhumanly strong individuals, how do they handle being so physically superior to everyone else? How difficult is it to learn to control extraordinary strength, and how do people view them if they can't and cause inadvertent destruction? How would someone respond to gaining great physical power suddenly?

 

I'm sure you can fill in the rest from there.

[Tim]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see how to challenge and handle "superman" type characters. ie FAst Bricks.Without making it hard for the rest ot be effective.

 

I have one in m campaign and he is a pain in the *edit*.

[JDRook]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'm thinking Giants - the Big & Strong combo. More often than not, bricks are oversized, and larger characters are usually bricks, so Growth could be explored more. Megascaling, Giant Hand Attacks as Area Affects, Vehicle and Base considerations for the Collossal Gentlemen - you get the idea.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Another thing...

 

The physiology of brick-ness. Start with real-world physiology and kinematics for the heroic-level, real-world types, and expand into the theoretical -- what if we really could have metal-enhanced muscles, cybernetic limbs, silicon physiology, or other special effects of higher strength? How much enhancement would we get from these things, and what sort of limitations would we face? (Why did Steve Austin never throw out his back when lifting 500 pounds with his bionic arm?)

[Dust Raven]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see some discussion on how gravity affects a character's STR. It's not necessarily a complete "brick" thing, but more than a few bricks come from worlds of high gravity (especially in the SF games). I'm not sure if this is already covered in Star Hero, but I think it should be covered in a book devoted to STR.

[caris]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A nice long discussion about not getting into the pidgeon holing habit. That a Brick doesn't have to have STR X, and Def Y, which means that only SPD Z is available to the character.

 

Personally, I would prefer that as a side effect of this conversation that you drop out the whole "arch-type" section, simply because I encounter too many GMs that treat them like "classes," but that is my personal issue. It won't be a make or break issue on if I buy the book or not.

[JmOz]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A little on non brick bricks. What I mean is that characters with powers such as growth or density increase, while technicaly more like the metamorphs are in fact closer to bricks in most of are minds (If you look at archtypes as how instead of why).

 

I want to second the non super's bricks comments, especialy for characters in the 20-30 str realm (where I put most "strong" aliens, characters like Conan, etc...)

 

I'm sure it is to late but to organise the book by "weightclasses" might be fun Str 15-20

Str 20-30

Str 31-45

Str 45-60

Etc...

 

I don't think it will happen but a 542 point version of Obsidian would be cool to go along with the 542 point Seeker and Solitaire (I think that was the point total you used in TUM and Watchers of the Dragon)

 

I would like to see a half dozen MA packets for different style bricks, or just one really expanded Brick MA packet (I noticed when I designed it before UMA came out that I concentrated on different things, such as giving him a "Haymaker" Offensive strike)

 

Talk about the role a brick normaly plays and the parts that he can (BRICKS NEED NOT BE STUPID PEOPLE)

 

If you wish, you can use my old PC Grok as a example character (He is a hulk type, but stays flesh tones, so looks neanderthalish, the difference is his Int stayed the same & he had a sense of humor that included "dumbing down" when he changed, so he would essentialy act like the hulk but know exactly what panel to destroy to stop the launch sequence...He was a fun character I was planning on including in the Ultimate Brick thread if we ever got that far).

 

Also, here is a "outline" of stuff we did before, feel free to steel from it as you wish

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12385

 

A number of us put a lot of heart into that, so I hope it is useful

 

Also some words on half bricks (I am superstrong but I have speed based defences or Nothing can hurt me, but I need help lifting over 300lbs)

 

Different F/X's for bricks, Something like Superboy (current one's) Tacktile TK (He essentialy has a FF, and No Range TK)

 

A section on the most common powers, such as flight, eb, etc...

 

Hopefuly with out giving to much away you wrote an article for a fanzine about this, I hope you incorporate some of that in this (I really did like the idea of Variable advantage on str to represent a host of brick tricks)

 

That is asll I can think of right now...but I thought the book was essentialy done already...

[Patriot]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Tim,, The best thing to do for a Character like that is make them think, instead of power there way out of it, If the player has any maturity , He'll appreciate it.

[AnotherSkip]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

how about 101 uses for PowerSkill: Strength Tricks.

or a handfull of suggestions for using a characters curent powerset to help define his Powerskill uses?

 

 

Powerskill, It's Not Just For Mages Anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vex]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I like the idea of seeing different versions of bricks. I would also like to see some new characters in the back, showing off different builds and concepts. I also look at all the characters first whenever I get a new Hero Games book. It would also be fun to see powered up versions of Obsidian, Grond, Ripper and other bricks.

[Blue]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

It couldn't hurt to include a discussion of how to fight a brick (when you aren't one). For a new GM, dealing with 80 STR characters can be stressful until you figure out the ways around them.

 

Collateral Damage. While that's something that happens with any kind of heroes, particularly LARGE or Heavy beings are going to cause a problem just by existing each phase. Maybe some shortcuts for determining how much damage Godzilla and Ghidarah do to the area each turn without actually having them roll tail attacks on buildings and things.

[Demonsong]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Well mechanics aside. My favored thing in all Heroes books are the pregenerated characters. I like the in-depth character profiles and examples of power constructs and ideas. I generally only play Fantasy Hero but I buy all the Hero system books and the first thing I turn to is the characters.

 

So to answer your question:

 

I want to see lots of characters.

 

Thanks

 

Demonsong

[Supreme]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see:

 

• for Champions campaigns: classic brick-types for the different comic-book "ages" (Golden Age, Silver Age, etc.)
  
• various powers that simulate MASSIVE strength (like Change Environment effects, etc.)
  
• the friggin' book already! I've been anticipating this book more than any other in the HERO line outside of 5th Ed.
  

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Why thank you for asking Steve . Hmmm let me see . All good suggestions so far and there are a few I think are excellent . QM's Top Ten :

 

#10 "Brick Tricks" ( 101 ways to use your STRENGTH ) .

#09 "Psychology of Bricks"

#08 "Brick Archetypes" ( Telekinetic , Speedster , etc ... ) .

#07 "Anti-Brick Tactics" ( Zero-G , Grappling from behind , etc ... ) .

#06 "Society and Bricks" ( we praise strength an we fear it ) .

#05 "Various Bricks from Various Genres ( Fantasy/Mythology , Victorian , Pulp , CyberPunk , Star HERO , etc ... ) .

#04 "Sample Characters" ( preferably new ones suggested by #5 ) .

#03 "Collateral Damage" ( super battles between Bricks examples ) .

#02 "Battlefields for Brick ( Maps and suggested battlefields ) .

AND

#01 "101 Adventure Scenarios" ( Classic Brick Plots and Sub-Plots . King of the Hill , I am the Strongest of them all , etc ... ) .

 

 

P.S. : A Steve Long and Crew thread on Brick Tricks !!!

[mattingly]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see something on bricks that don't look like bricks (kindergardeners and little old ladies), and some extra crunchiness on automatons (which are close to bricks in that they feel little pain).

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

It couldn't hurt to include a discussion of how to fight a brick (when you aren't one). For a new GM' date=' dealing with 80 STR characters can be stressful until you figure out the ways around them.[/quote']

Yes! An excellent suggestion!

 

Here's a few of mine:

 

* A discussion of leverage and simple Newtonian mechanics. Non-bricks with normal STR lift tremendous weights every day using levers, pullies, etc. A discussion of pushing or rolling heavy objects along the ground as opposed to lifting them might be helpful. The Ultimate Vehicle makes the mistake of saying that a creature's STR must be enough to lift the towed vehicle, rather than simply pull it on wheels or runners. This is unrealistic. Horses don't lift carts, they pull them. Wheels reduce friction, as do runners on snow. A towing creature only has to overcome the friction. Likewise a brick rolling a big boulder doesn't necessarily need the STR he would to lift it.

 

* There's another thread called "More Powerful than a Speeding Locomotive" that would be relevent. If you can lift 25 tons, how do you stop a train weighing hundreds of tons? Assuming it won't kill you, how much momentum can you reduce/absorb with X STR per phase?

 

* Is TUB going to concentrate on Champions? I think it would be much more useful if, like TUV and UMA, it was useful for all genres, superheroic and heroic.

 

* Dare I mention it? Some discussion of the real game value of STR and the GM's option to change its price, to say 2 cp's per point of STR. What impact would this have on bricks in particular and the game in general? Reasons to make this change and reasons not to.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

* Dare I mention it? Some discussion of the real game value of STR and the GM's option to change its price' date=' to say 2 cp's per point of STR. What impact would this have on bricks in particular and the game in general? Reasons to make this change and reasons not to.[/quote']

 

Yes, this is a very ripe topic for discussion IMHO. It's one of the more perennially controversial issues in Herodom, and some of the options for dealing with Strength and their consequences should be explored: changing its cost, severing it from Figured Characteristics, END requirement for STR, Limitations put on it, etc.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Yes! An excellent suggestion!

 

Here's a few of mine:

 

* A discussion of leverage and simple Newtonian mechanics. Non-bricks with normal STR lift tremendous weights every day using levers, pullies, etc. A discussion of pushing or rolling heavy objects along the ground as opposed to lifting them might be helpful. The Ultimate Vehicle makes the mistake of saying that a creature's STR must be enough to lift the towed vehicle, rather than simply pull it on wheels or runners. This is unrealistic. Horses don't lift carts, they pull them. Wheels reduce friction, as do runners on snow. A towing creature only has to overcome the friction. Likewise a brick rolling a big boulder doesn't necessarily need the STR he would to lift it.

I plead innocent to this one -- my manuscript, and my later notes, give a different formula (essentially coming down to half the STR, on the logic that enough STR to lift it should be equal to enough Casual STR to pull it with wheels).

* Dare I mention it? Some discussion of the real game value of STR and the GM's option to change its price' date=' to say 2 cp's per point of STR. What impact would this have on bricks in particular and the game in general? Reasons to make this change and reasons not to.[/quote'] With emphasis on this (or 1.5 points per pip) being GM's option, as opposed to an all-out change in rules.

[Old Man]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Megascale brick combat--bashing people with aircraft carriers, throwing mountains at each other, pushing planets out of orbit.

 

Perhaps TUB ought to take on the physics questions by fleshing out two different realities--everyday physics (where an aircraft carrier can't really be lifted w/out wrecking it) and comic book physics (where it can).

 

Guidelines for dealing with huge levels of growth, for those instances where the heroes must fight Godzilla and a flock of Sentinels. And for dealing with other extreme size differences.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Guidelines for dealing with huge levels of growth' date=' for those instances where the heroes must fight Godzilla and a flock of Sentinels. And for dealing with other extreme size differences.[/quote'] While I suspect that Steve will be wanting to reserve this for The Ultimate Metamorph, I agree that some basics on this topic would be good for TUB. It can then be covered in greater depth in TUMM.

[Supreme]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BRICK -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Megascale brick combat--bashing people with aircraft carriers, throwing mountains at each other, pushing planets out of orbit.

 

Perhaps TUB ought to take on the physics questions by fleshing out two different realities--everyday physics (where an aircraft carrier can't really be lifted w/out wrecking it) and comic book physics (where it can).

 

Guidelines for dealing with huge levels of growth, for those instances where the heroes must fight Godzilla and a flock of Sentinels. And for dealing with other extreme size differences.

I think a careful examination of "brick physics" is essential. One of the biggest points of discussion on these boards is making choices about "realism." Might also be good to see bricks at the other end of the spectrum. The original Hourman from DC Comics simply took a pill which doubled his strength for an hour. The Golden Age was filled with such characters who merely increased their strength by a round number ("I have the strength of ten men!"). You might want to have an article that examines what are some practical minimum levels for brick strength.

 

Now I'm getting an idea for a campaign...