Dealing with Invisible Heroes

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

I don't think you can do this...buy a blanket "Invisible to Detects". Detects are neither a sense group nor are they a specific sense themselves (as are Danger Sense and Combat Sense' date=' for example).[/quote']

TTBOMK you have to buy Invis vs individual Detects, though "Detect Invisible" would be a prime choice in that case.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Right, that was what I meant...you'd have to buy "Invisible to Detect xxxxx" on a one-at-a-time basis; you can't just buy "Invisible to Detects" and get Invisiblity to all things written up as "Detects".

 

In my campaign world, there's an assassin (the Queen of Spades) who has "Invisiblity to Danger Sense."

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

In my campaign world' date=' there's an assassin (the Queen of Spades) who has "Invisiblity to Danger Sense." [/quote']

Ive used that one before too.

[assault]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Some more thoughts:

 

The mega-invisibilities that people have been describing are way out of line. I just wouldn't allow them.

 

Specifically, I would insist that there was _a_ way for the character to be seen. And the main villain of the campaign, or at least some of his/her flunkies, can do it.

 

Anything else is stupid.

 

It's like Superman without Kryptonite - nobody can defeat him. Ever. At all.

 

Actually, it's worse, since in Superman's case you can always put him up against another ridiculously powerful character.

 

Having said that: mega-invisibility is a gross waste of points. This character won't actually be able to do very much. This means that he might well prove to be incredibly boring for the player, as well as for everyone else.

 

The only way which he is going to be much use is if he munchkins out his other powers. If that is the case, well, you have a problem player on your hands.

 

Personally, if I was going to build an invisible character, I would assume that they would always be seen in combat, and use my invisibility largely as a non-combat stealth "skill". In particular, I wouldn't be particularly offended by the GM handing out "see me" goggles to all the major villains' flunkeys, at least occasionally.

 

As I said, what's Superman without Kryptonite?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

5E specifically prevents you from buying Invisibility vs "Unusual Group" since the unusual group in 5E is really senses that are almost always Defined as within a group - IR is an unusual sense, buy you define it as IR Sight, IR Radar, etc...

 

As for Invisibility versus Detects as a whole ... I wasn't sure on that, I read the Senses section of FREd so often I can almost quote it, I've been over the FAQ and finally I checked Hero Designer to see what it did (Dan is REALLY good about following the rules in HDv2) and normally when something must be purchased multiple times (Such as Weapon Familiarity: Vehicle Weapons) it creates a second line of the same after you check the box. It didn't do that with Invisibility. My GM and I decided that within what I was trying to do - how we had treated in 4E (the character started there) we decided you could pruchase Inivisible to Detects as a blanket.

 

Otherwise I could simply define it as "Invisible to any Detect that would detect the character" - nice and tidy.

 

To address the "There must be a way to perceive the character issue" .. I purposely (for my character) did not do two things: 1) Desol, the Touch Group is still wide open and boy has my GM exploited that one. 2) Low defenses, almost non-existant originally outside of body armor. I had a high PD for a normal (at 10) but no built in resistant def. ... the character has seen negative body many many times... grenades suck. She should have a Psych Lim: Grenade-phobia by now.

 

Also don't forget about Suppression fields .. in the case of Invisibility I'd grant that a Suppression that is able to overcome part of the Invisibility would supress that function (since, technically there is nothing preventing a character from turning on only Part of the Inivisibility) .. but that's all in the GMs hands there.

 

And of course .. the GM is always able to generate a Brand New Sense Group that the character didn't think of ... like FREd's example of Mystic Sense Group, if the character has any "Mystic" properties then they can be detected... I'd use that one sparingly or announce it at the begining of the campaign.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Detect Invisible being, sense, range, targeting: this construct fits nicely into a magical character's VPP.

 

Q: could transmit be used to convey the PCs location to other characters?

[Korvar]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Even if the villain can't detect the invisible person, if they are aware of their existance, there's things they can do. A super-strategist villain would be able to deal with an invisible opponent fairly easily, even assuming that things like flour and paint bombs don't work (as they might not, with a "super-ignore-o" power).

[Col. Orange]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

IMO' date=' given the (admittedly sketchy) background you provided, I'd say he's not technically "invisible" at all-- he's just not noticed. He can make himself noticed when he wants to, but most of the time, he doesn't feel like doing it. Thus, if he wants to buy a ham sandwich, he takes out the money, gets in the shopkeeper's face, and is noticed. It doesn't make any sense that his money or any of his possessions would actually be literally invisible, but it does make sense, if he's been ignored his whole life, that he's gotten good at not being noticed (just going with the flow, after all).[/quote']

 

 

Hmm.

 

0-End, AoE Radius Mind Control w/one effect limitation - "Do not notice me"?

 

That way when people know there's something to look for, it's harder to hide (higher effect on the MC table needed).

[TheEmerged]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

First of all' date=' never let a player buy invisibility versus everything [b'](is that even possible)[/b].

 

Technically no, since you cannot buy invisibility to the Unusual Group as a group. The build mentioned earlier on this thread, for example, would not defend against Detect Person with Super Powers or Detect Active Use of Super Powers for example.

 

Having said that you can get awfully freaking close, as the earlier build I just picked on proves

[largosama]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Here's my player's quick description of the character (I asked them all to submit multiple character descriptions for use in the campaign (see my threat on multiple characters posted yesterday (13th)... anyhoo, mostly an FYI to help with discussion:

 

Fade

 

Fade is a withdrawn kid in his late teens with the ability to cease

to exist for all intents and purposes. When he "fades" he becomes

invisible, intangible, undetectable by telepathy, no heat signature,

etc. He's kind of gothy.

[assault]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Here's my player's quick description of the character (I asked them all to submit multiple character descriptions for use in the campaign (see my threat on multiple characters posted yesterday (13th)... anyhoo, mostly an FYI to help with discussion:

 

Fade

 

Fade is a withdrawn kid in his late teens with the ability to cease

to exist for all intents and purposes. When he "fades" he becomes

invisible, intangible, undetectable by telepathy, no heat signature,

etc. He's kind of gothy.

 

Actually, he doesn't sound too bad. Almost like a Teen Champions character!

 

He'd be as much use as screen doors on a submarine in combat, but would be a really handy scout/intrusion specialist.

 

OK, yeah, Assault could find a place for him in the team he would lead.

 

Just don't let him have any serious offensive powers.

 

There's nothing wrong with characters with "passive" powers.

 

Then again... I would still ensure there was a nice loophole the bad guys can use to hose him any time you think it is appropriate.

 

Of course, you will have to ensure that your scenarios contain a fair slab of roleplaying, and aren't just combat scenes. Otherwise you will drive each other nuts. Make sure he has a lot of reasons for remaining visible, and does a lot of talking.

 

Roleplaying is a great equaliser. It tends to cancel out any nasties lurking on your players' character sheets.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

He'd be as much use as screen doors on a submarine in combat, but would be a really handy scout/intrusion specialist.

 

Just don't let him have any serious offensive powers.

 

Quoted with some snippage.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Anybody remember Invisible Kid from the Legion of Superheroes? That was pretty much his whole schtick; he didn't have any offensive powers at all beyond the basic Legion martial arts training (probably Comic Book Martial Arts, no DCs). He led the Espionage team and was possibly tied with Chameleon Boy for best information gatherer in the LSH (Inviso's nice, but nothin' beats Shapeshifting). He could hold his own against lesser foes, but against any of the Legion's powerhouse opponents, about all he could do was throw a foot out and let 'em trip over it.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Don't forget that Lyle Norg was a genius. IK1 was an excellent character. And Legion Combat Training is good, yes it is generic MA but he definitely had DCs. After all MA was his MAIN attack power.

 

Although I believe the Legion Of Superheroes *IS* the reason most games have a concept called play balance.

 

I mean who would you rather play *seriously*

 

Invisible Kid?

 

or

 

Mon-El?

 

Remember BOTH are scientists (Mon-El invented the Element 157 as his Legion Tryout (antigrav metal)

 

Hawksmoor

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Don't forget that Lyle Norg was a genius. IK1

 

Actually, I was thinking IK2 (Jacques Foccart?), who wasn't much of a scientist or a combatant. My bad, I didn't think to specify.

 

To answer your question, though, I'd rather play IK (either one) than Mon-El. Mon-El is expected to go one-on-one, mano-a-mano with people like Darkseid. No thank you, mommy taught me never to play in that sandbox. The more powerful you are, the more responsibilities you get and the tougher the foes you have to fight and the more that's on the line in every battle! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

 

... so I think I'll play Matter-Eater Lad.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Hey Bud

 

Hands off the Tenzil!

 

MEL is MINE!!! All Mine!!!

 

Hawksmoor

[Brandi]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

What is the special effect of his invisibility? If he shifts into another dimension, say, it's quite possible that something *else* in that dimension notices him. See HP Lovecraft's "From Beyond."

 

Also, if his invisibility is 0 END Persistent, let him get whacked with an Area Effect attack... and then not have his companions be able to find him. Bilbo was lucky in the War of Five Armies that he was knocked out and not bleeding to death...

[Supreme]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Technically no, since you cannot buy invisibility to the Unusual Group as a group. The build mentioned earlier on this thread, for example, would not defend against Detect Person with Super Powers or Detect Active Use of Super Powers for example.

 

Having said that you can get awfully freaking close, as the earlier build I just picked on proves

I think "Detect: Motion" would be more plausible and work just as well.

[xxalt]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

If the character can only be "sensed" if he REALLY wants it, then he has to through a fit to communicate with his own team. Kind of like a kid that wants attention.

 

You can also interpret the focus it takes to attack someone as equivalent to wanting attention, triggering visibility.

 

He would be a great spy, but less overpowering in battle.

[ZootSoot]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Here's my player's quick description of the character (I asked them all to submit multiple character descriptions for use in the campaign (see my threat on multiple characters posted yesterday (13th)... anyhoo, mostly an FYI to help with discussion:

 

Fade

 

Fade is a withdrawn kid in his late teens with the ability to cease

to exist for all intents and purposes. When he "fades" he becomes

invisible, intangible, undetectable by telepathy, no heat signature,

etc. He's kind of gothy.

 

Well, my solution with this background is simply to make it all or nothing. He can be undetectable, but he can't interact with the world, he can interact with the world but he can'tbe undetectable. This means he can be a great spy, but is much more limited as an "assassin" and it means that often, in order to get good use from his power he has to take risks when he is not using his power.

[Vex]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Two questions..... Can he be filmed? If so, do robots see him? Also, what kind of attack power does he have? Can he attack while "faded"?

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Two questions..... Can he be filmed? If so' date=' do robots see him? Also, what kind of attack power does he have? Can he attack while "faded"?[/quote']

 

That's a good point. If stuff ignores him, that means it's because he's so morbidly uninteresting that it results in a superpower effect.

 

If this is the case, then things that observe everything, even if it's uninteresting, should see him. Therefore machines and constructs should be able to see/detect him with ease.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

i thought i'd have a quick go at a mind control version thsi oen is pretty effective but has a pretty high active point cost.

 

Mind Control 3d6, Telepathic (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1), Continuous (+1), Cumulative (54 points; +1), Area Of Effect (32" Radius; +1 1/2) (101 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Always On (-1/2), Set Effect (I don't exist; -1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)

 

cost 24 points

 

Mental Defense (32 points total), Usable Simultaneously (up to 16 people at once; +1 1/4) (70 Active Points); Only Works Against Very Limited Type of Attack (own mind control power; -1), Incantations (-1/4)

cost 31 points

 

basically the first power makes everyone forget your there the second allows you to selectivly shield people from some of the effect

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

He led the Espionage team and was possibly tied with Chameleon Boy for best information gatherer in the LSH (Inviso's nice' date=' but nothin' beats Shapeshifting).[/quote']I'd have said the Superboy/Mon-El types with their arrays of enhanced and special senses were the best info gatherers. With superspeed they could also become effectively invisible, too.

[Tech]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

I agree with Vex & Fenixcrest: robots, computer-assisted traps and other no-mind adversaries will be the bane of this hero. A villain in a powered-armor suit will have his suit telling him something's there while he doesn't see anything, allowing him to attack the hero.

 

Armored suits are wonderful, aren't they?