Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

[Richard Logue]

Consider...

 

Let's say the German-Japanese Axis won World War 2 (however you want to rationalize a possible victory). In the aftermath, they split America up. West of the Mississippi is occupied by Japanese Imperial forces, east of the river lies the German occupation. Now, advance that to the present day, 60 years later.

 

What's life like in America in 2005? Specifically, in a major metropolis such as New York City? Is there some kind of resistance 6 decades after the fact? How present is the Third Reich, and how much control do they exert over Americans? How much do the Nazis allow Americans to govern themselves? Are there Gestapo or SS goons everywhere? How much has "acceptance" is there? For the Champions genre, whats life like for supers?

 

The reason I'm wondering this and being specific with America, is that I'm planning to send my group to an alternate earth where the Nazis won (the group is based out of NYC). And I want to get as many opinions and possibilities from you all as I can to "paint the picture" of the world for the scenario. Then, of course, they'll return to their own Earth a little wiser.

 

Thanks for the brainstorming

 

Richard

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

Well, first of all, if the Axis had won WW2, I don't see them occupying America. They just don't have the population base to do so (and its a whole 'nother matter to defeat the US on its home turf as opposed to beating us back from overseas). I would think it would be more likely that the US, seeking better relations with the Third Reich (which does now look like it'll last a thousand years), would elect a politician that has similar values. You'd get the "make peace with our European friends" politicians (secretly funded by the nazis, of course). They'd want to team up with Hitler to fight the godless communists. It wouldn't be a puppet government, but it wouldn't be the America that we recognize today.

[Lupus]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

Man in the High Tower situation? Neat.

 

As for the logistics of conquering (since Champsguy went there), might work if Germany developed The Bomb first, blew up... oh, some big city, but not Washington, and said 'We have twenty more of these. You get to decide where they go.'

 

After that, they allow an American to be in charge. The old Colonial power structures that Europe used over most of the colonies involved allowing the old political systems to remain in effect. They just put themselves on top. You'll see Americans in positions of power all over the country, still. They'll just be sympathisers.

 

They'd have to institute a radical program of social change. Start with the schools - they teach German and English, they teach Mein Kampf, they teach why the Aryan race is superior.

 

Outside schools, they play the race card. Sure, the white majority will be pissed off at having lost a war, and being under domination of a foreign power. I can certainly see mass mobilisation of rebel militias. But I can also see an incredible amount of shock. The occupiers would have to move quickly and take advantage of that shock, preferably coming off like a kindly force of invaders.

 

By the race card, I mean: 'Hey, you're bummed at having lost. It's okay, we're a lot like you guys, right? You better be lucky you're under us and not the Japanese. We like Aryans. You're on the top of the heap, here.' and other such motivational speeches. I can certainly see the re-introduction of slavery, which may appease certain quarters.

 

It would still be difficult, but if you want to slant things towards an Axis victory in the control over the US, I'd say that's a good start. Alternate the kind hand of benevolent occupation with the iron fist of 'oh dear, you're rebelling? I really wish you hadn't done that.'

 

The end aim, in my opinion, would be to bend the American idealism to the Axis' will. You'd end up with an America that is still as fiercely proud and independent as ever... they just see Germany as the natural people to guide them into the next Millennium.

 

Now, West of the Mississippi.... the Japanese have a lot fewer points of similarity than the Germans. I think they'd never succeed at a program like the above, particularly taking into account the propaganda that was around during the War. They'd probably have to delay their actual invasion, until they built up their army enough from occupied territories. Then they could invade and 'liberate' the Asian peoples of the Pacific coast, particularly the Japanese in internment camps.

 

The West is certainly problematic... as Champsguy said, the numbers game is simply too difficult. They'd need SOMETHING to even out the score... I confess I can't really picture what it is. But you can be it'll involve some very harsh treatment, scores of prison camps and divine retribution against civilians if any Japanese citizen (let alone military man) is harmed.

[Beholder]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

I agree that the world would be very different, especially in Europe.

 

As for amerika, I am sure that the Japanese would not have the power to maintain an occupation on half of the US, they could remain master of the Pacific with a completelly destroyed US fleet and naval bases. They could have signed a peace treaty with the US which would have imposed on the US from building a Pacific military fleet.

 

As for the Germans, they would most assuredly made sure that the Amerikans would indeed be governed by a Puppet government. With time they could make sure that the security organizations of the US are run by pro Nazi americans, colaborators and such beings. So today, the US, Canada and Mexico would most assuredly be right hand government. As Champsguy noted, it would be very much like today, but I guess, slightly more intense.

 

Media disinformation, Security organization that spy on civilians and dissention, terrorist threats (from home land americans though, basically the rebellion versus a totalitarian government (think starwars)).

 

In other words : very 1984 like, but with a Red and black US flag

[CBikle]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

Check out The Man In The High Castle, which deals with this theme.

Essentially the US was divided into East and West America (just like Germany), Germany controlled the East Coast and Japan controlled the West Coast.

You could have a lot of creepy parallels to the real world (Bush might still be president since his family bankrolled the nazi party before the US entered WWII).

The nazis might have certain restrictions regarding paranormals, maybe using giant robots to control the mutant and alien populations.

 

[Powerhouse]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

Building on a few things:

 

1. The bomb. That alone would allow the Nazis to hold everyone else as hostages if they could achieve it fast enough to prevent anyone else from coming close to getting it. In an alternate Champions timeline, Albert Zer-however you spell it is a good little Nazi who is given free reign to use all scientists and theories (even those of Jews) to fast track Hitler to the bomb. That speed, combined with keeping some of Europe's finest from getting to the West, could be all they need.

 

2. Superhumans: similarly, Dr. D with free reign could hyper engineer superhumans to be more powerful than anything the Allies had to allow for a quicker victory. Following victory, they could rapidly incorporate all emerging superhumans into intense brainwashing to worship the Furher.

 

3. Propaganda: people will follow a winnner pretty easily and I could see the Nazis, even as occupiers, gaining influence over a surrended America. A new generation raised to not cherish freedom but Nazi propanda could turn America on its head.

 

Champions in 3D had a Nazi world that you might want to check out.

[OddHat]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

I agree with Champsguy. We would not see a German occupation of America, even if they'd managed to get the Atomic bomb first (one way that they could have won). There were American Nazis and Nazi sympathisers before and in the early stages of the war, including Lindburgh, Joe Kenedy, and other major political figures. What wwe'd be far more likely to see would be an authoritarian American government under American rule. There's a possibility that America's Jews would have been shipped off to internment or extermnation camps by the American government, along with (less likely) American Blacks and Asians. At the least I'd expect to see non-White Americans disenfranchised and (if posible) deported in such a setting.

 

However, it's your setting; do as you like.

[Highwayman]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

I'd say the first thing the Nazis would have their puppet government do is shut down all nuclear and areospace reseach, so they can maintain their advantage.

 

Also, I have trouble seeing the Germans and the Japanese getting along for more than five minutes after the Allies are defeated. The smart thing for the Germans to do would be sic their new American "allies" on Japan. Maybe that's how the western U.S. gets a Japanese occupation, with the Germans considering that a fair tradeoff for conquering India and Siberia.

 

And since this is a comic book universe, of course there would be a Resistance, made up of the people who cannot or will not submit to authority. In other words, the people who were villians in the original universe. Maybe the heroic fighters of VIPER are trying to cobble together a superweapon to counter the Nazi ICBMs...

[Barton]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

I did it in my game as a alternate timeline where Japan/Germany did not win WW2 but a cold war started. It ended in 1994 when the US effectively went bankrupt from defense spending and a puppet goverment was set up. In this timeline, resistance is still very strong and supers are underground fighting the Nazis.

I added the extra fun of my players having "NaziWorld" alternates with different histories. It lead to interesting roleplaying when they had to pretend to be these "other" people.

[Basil]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

A couple of off-the-top-of-my-head ideas:

 

Re. the difficulties Japan would have (as others have pointed out): make the dividing line 105° E, rather than the Mississippi.

 

Do a repeat of the "Zimmermann telegram". For those who don't know, this is from WWI--the Germans made an unofficial offer to Mexico, that if they would invade (or at least distract) the USA, the Germans would see to it Mexico regained all the territories lost due to the Gadsden 'Purchase', the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalago, the rebellion of California and the rebellion of Texas. That is, all of CA, NV, AZ, UT< NM, and TX, and parts of OK, KS, CO, and WY would be returned to Mexico. This would mean (A) a southern front to the invasion of the USA, ( another race for the Nazis to scapegoat ("It was dos shtinking Mexican dat shnuck up on you; ve fought you fair und shquare"), © another way to reduce the size of the Japanese "holding" (if you want to go that route).

 

As for cultural impacts: there would be more "Japanification" on the Pacific Coast than at present. There would be a strong "Teutonification" along the Atlantic Coast, and a strong sense of "enthic identity" in areas with a strong German heritage (e.g., parts of the Midwest).

 

Politically, I agree that Germany and Japan would rule through puppets. However, Mexico would rule directly (if you go that route); due to its history of less rigorous government, I'd expect the biggest "freedom fighter" organizations to be headquartered in that area (or exist only in there). This could lead to Germany and/or Japan gaining as much influence as possible over Mexico; one or both might (even by 2005) have essentially made it a puppet state. One result of that could be that Germany/Japan pays so much attention to the sourthern parts of the USA that the northern-tier states are "freer" due to be less noticed.

 

BTW, don't forget that during WWII, Hawaii and Alaska were not states, and probably won't be in the alternate time-line you're talking about --- neither occupying powers would give Congress much power for the first decade or so, and by the late '50s the contributions to the war effort of both territories would be (A) little thought on and ( nothing a puppet government would want to call attention to.

[McCoy]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

By the race card' date=' I mean: 'Hey, you're bummed at having lost. It's okay, we're a lot like you guys, right? You better be lucky you're under us and not the Japanese. We like Aryans. You're on the top of the heap, here.' and other such motivational speeches. I can certainly see the re-introduction of slavery, which may appease certain quarters.[/quote']

Doubt that chattel slavery can be cost-effective in an industrial society. Was the infrastructure of America trashed as throughly as that of Europe in our world? If so, slavery may have made a comeback. But if there were limited Atomic bomb on missile attacks, lets say Washington and Los Angeles totaled, rest of the country relatively untouched, doubt that slavery would have been reinstituted.

 

Instead I see a more extreme form of the Eugenics laws that were on the books in America before the war. Conviction on a felony charge carries, in addition to any other penalty, mandatory sterilization. White, nonviolent, non-political defendants could probably plea-bargain down to misdemeanors with massive fines, no such option for non-whites or Jews. If the sterilization is by castration rather than vasectomy, I can see most non-white suspects refusing to be taken alive. This could be a clue to the PC's, presence attacks simply do not work and street level muggers will resist arrest to the death.

 

For a generation and a half, the steel mills and factories of America have been used to rebuild Europe, and the country is just now experiencing an economic boom like the 50's in our world. The Interstate Highway system was never built, and trains are the most frequent and efficient way of traveling from city to city.

 

Much to their discomfort, the Amish, hard working, nonviolent, and of German descent, would be promoted as role models. Most agricultural machinery is still powered by horses. The large factory farms never came to be. America supports it's reduced population, but does not export food.

 

While the two party system has been maintained, the two parties are the majority American Nazi Party and the minority Republicans. The Republicans are isolationist, wanting America to cut ties with Europe. The Nazis are internationalist, wanting to maintain free trade and close political ties with our European cousins. The Austrian-born son of a Nazi official is now on his third term as President of the United States.

[Marketeer]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

Given that Canada entered the war earlier than the US, and was much more closely affiliated with the UK (which would probably be utterly decimated in a lost WWII), it's probably also worth examining relations with your northern neighbor.

 

I would guess that Canada would have to have been forcibly removed from the war. Occupation is even less viable in Canada than it would be in the US (greater landmass, lower population density), but the Canadian identity was more closely affiliated with the British Crown.

 

In all likelihood? Canada economically/diplomatically subjugated, and either a "look at how lucky you Amerikaners are" object example, or a functional puppet government, completely built by the Reich, that is used as an example of why the Aryan way is the better way.

 

A bit tangental, but Canada does bracket the US on the other side and all.

 

[Bucky]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

All this speculation is fun and all that, but I have to say, I still don't think it would work. It is more than a matter of numbers, its a matter of philosophy. To put it bluntly, the race philosophies of the Nazis don't work in the real world.

 

First off, there are more non-Aryans than there are Aryans, by a very large factor. Does the name Custer ring a bell?

 

Second, there is a whole series of things that would have had to go right for Hitler (and Tojo) for it work out that way. Operation Barbarosa should not have been started until AFTER the UK was defeated, and Hitler was dictating terms in Whitehall, and even that assumes the Brits would have listened. Midway cannot happen in this alternate universe. And neither can Pearl Harbor, which really cheesed off the Americans, and motivated it to puts its industrial might behind the war effort.

 

But critical to all this is the belief structure. The simple fact is that group identity is purely a mental construct. Skin tone don't mean a thing, it is a matter of character and values that determines what a person does, how he lives his life, and most importantly, whether he is successful or not.

 

Character and values are partly the product of culture, and not related to skin tone at all. And the American values such as independence, freedom of thought and expression, freedom from excessive government intrusion is too firmly ingrained in its pysche to be dislodged easily, even under the threat of nuclear warfare. It is those values and ideas that led to Americas industrial might, its political principles that led to its economic success, and still fuels it today. It is that economic might that allowed America to put more men, and material, more ships and tanks and bullets in the field than the Germans or Japanese could ever hope to possess.

 

It is exactly the Nazi philosophy of racial superiority that led them to reject "Jewish physics" which prevented them from gettting the bomb. It was American's "who cares whether it was a Jew or not" philosophy that gave us the bomb.

 

It was America's more tolerant attitude that led it to employ the services of the code breakers that led to victory at Midway. Despite the fact that the lead code breaker wore bathroom slippers while in uniform.

 

Free people have a strategic and tactical advantage over those of a totalitarian government. A free people are better able to employ more brainpower to a problem, whether it is develope a new product, or defeat the Nazis. That advantage comes directly from the culture and values that freedom produces.

 

Was America racist prior to the war? Sure, but it was less racist than either the Nazis or the Japanese. And what racism existed was untenable and in conflict with the stirring words of the Declaration of Independence. As such, it was simply more 'fit' to survive the conflict intact, more fit on the battlefield. America did not win because the Nazis were unlucky. (Heck, in the early days, it could be argued that American won DESPITE the luck of Hitler's Germany and the incompetence of the Allies. [Kasserine Pass])

 

I would recommend Victor Davis Hanson's work "Carnage and Culture" for a more thorough exposition.

[Koshka]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

A bit tangental, but Canada does bracket the US on the other side and all.

 

And is in the perfect position to host a panzer army waiting to sweep down on the central US.

 

Assume the Battle of Britain/Operation Sealion was a sweep for the Nazis (and if they're pulling off world conquest, it probably was), Churchill dead, a puppet monarch* and Prime Minister in place. In a realistic world, it would take a little time to get the British military working with the German, but this is a superhero world -- use "super-brainwashing", or just get them into the habit by bringing them into the front lines of Barbarossa. Even if the commonwealth countries split from Great Britain after Sealion, an Anglo-German alliance would be in a much better position to kick the world around.

 

 

------

*There's plenty of stories about the Nazis bringing the Duke of Windsor back to the throne, but whether the British would have accepted him is a different question. However, Princess Margaret was only 9. If she'd been "rescued" by German troops during the invasion, they could have stuck her on the throne with a full complement of Nazi regents and spent the next several years brainwashing her to be a good little Aryan maiden and marry whoever Hitler wanted to control Britain.

[Kristopher]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

However, were Britain to fall, all remnants of the massive British Navy would likely end up in US, Canadian, and Australian ports.

 

Additionally, holding Britain after an invasion would be like hugging a hornet nest while trying to run a marathon. Touch any member of the royal family, and it gets even worse. Kill or hide Churchhill, and he becomes a martyr, ten times stronger in his absence than he was making his speaches. Just taking Britain would have likely bled the German war machine dry.

[Lord Beavis]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

As stated earlier, I strongly recommend Champions in 3-D. It was sourcebook produced in 1990. It had a lot of interesting full campaigns including Nazi World with it's own timeline.

 

I bought it intially, but lost it. A few months ago I found it on Ebay for $1.00

 

Thank you ebay!!

[death tribble]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

Champions in 3D put up the idea that Germany won and what the result was. Some of it was technological like Studebaker cars still being around in the modern day.

 

Some people have said here 'It couldn't happen'. That is exactly what they said about Pearl Harbor. The Japanese developed the technology that did it.

Possibilities for change include who won the 1940 election in America and whether they are in the pay of the Germans/Japanese;

that Pearl Harbor was a success AND the aircraft carriers were there are sunk and that NONE of the capital ships could be salvaged;

development of ICBMs by Germany that could drop germ warfare on the States. The population would not be as much and 60 years on could only just be recovering;

There is also the possibility of super science with giant robots or cloned soldiers, that sort of thing;

 

Would there be resistance ? Certainly. New York has always been a hot bed of unrest and 'different' to the rest of the country so you would have cells here but probably not the headquarters.

It also depends on who is in charge in Germany. If Hitler is dead but Heydrich and Himmler still around, oh dear lord help us all.

[proditor]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

There are several other key swing points where things might have gone differently.

 

Mid-1939: Admiral Raeder consults Hitler and asks "What kind of Navy do you want? I can make an all U-boat navy in a very short time that will strangle England, or I can concentrate on a big Navy to match England if we're not going to war until 1946." Hitler cues up the latter and then goes to war a few months later. This leaves Germany in the uneviable position of having a Navy designed for neither goal and unable to meet the requirements of the war. Still, the switch in 40-41 to increased U-boat production comes dangerously close to cutting England's life line.

 

Posit the following:

 

At that meeting Hitler says "I want to wait till 46, but I might get forced. Build the U-boats." Now you have (by casual estimation) some 50 additional hulls working up at the beginning of the war, and several HUNDRED more available for the "Glory days" when they had more targets than U-boats and the allies just couldn't sink enough subs. In this instance, England can in fact be starved out as a prelude to Sealion and would have been tenderized enough to consider surrender. It's said Hitler admired the British when he wasn't screaming about them, so the possibility exists for a benevolent dictatoship scenario that frees troops from occupation.

 

Barbarossa: This one is a tricky whicket. Everything I've read said that even though it started 2 months too late, this was the onlyl viable time for Germany to invade Russia. Any later than 1941, (Like delayed after Sealion) and you have masses upon masses of new Russian tanks like the dreaded T-34 coming into service. You have something like 5 full armies mobilized....it just can't work after 41. So you have to posit that with the massively expanded U-boat fleet that Sealion is able to jump off much sooner and that possibly the Miracle at Dunkirk doesn't occur as the transports get wolf-packed. If you can wrap the majority of Sealion by the end of 40 (Vaguely plausible given the additional strangulation of England) then you have time to still ramp up for an April/May launch date of Barbarossa instead of late June. Assuming relative success of advance is similar to real life, there becomes a strong, strong possibility of taking Moscow and driving the Soviet government back to the Urals before winter sets in. This is where it gets ugly BTW.

 

Russia is almost impossible to premanently conquer. Digging in just shy of the Urals, it is possible to hold until Technology (The Bomb) alllows our phantom wehrmacht to bomb the soviets back into the stone age. They would also have a lot of allies (Just like in the real world) from countries freed from soviet rule.

 

So that's more or less how you take Europe.

 

America could be knocked out of the fight militarily by the addition of the carriers to Pearl Harbor, but then we face the biggest problem really...

 

America is left alone against Germany who it doesn't want to fight (At least most citizens don't, it's a Europe thing after all) and Japan who just kicked our teeth right down our throat. If the tri-party treaty is honored, you might see some of that massive U-boat fleet mentioned earlier off the coasts of the US and ensuring that out industrial might is sent to the bottom as fast as we churn it out.

 

Key Note: I'm almost bending reality to make this work, but it does have a stamp of the possible about it.

[tancred]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

Along with Operation Sealion, which could have worked (Grand Admiral Raeder had Admiral Donitz working on it, and he was a genius), there were a couple of other things that Hitler did wrong that could have made a huge difference.

 

In 1940, Hitler cancelled several important research projects, including the heavy water research that could have given Germany the A-bomb in 1943, 1944 at the latest. Put an A-Bomb on a V-2 and see how long it takes to conquer Britain. An atomic V-2 launched from Britain might have been used to nuke New York. How long does America fight after that?

 

Hitler also curtailed a Navy project that produced a submarine that was capable of sailing under an Allied convoy and sinking every ship (including escorts) without being detected. Thankfully, the 3 prototypes produced by this project were only launched in 1945, one week AFTER Hitler's death.

 

If Operation Sealion had worked, the amphibious raid (detailed in the book Green Beach) that gave the Allies such valuable data on German radar could never have happened. Without that data, the Allies would have had a tough time dealing with U-boats and the Luftwaffe.

[proditor]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

Along with Operation Sealion, which could have worked (Grand Admiral Raeder had Admiral Donitz working on it, and he was a genius), there were a couple of other things that Hitler did wrong that could have made a huge difference.

 

In 1940, Hitler cancelled several important research projects, including the heavy water research that could have given Germany the A-bomb in 1943, 1944 at the latest. Put an A-Bomb on a V-2 and see how long it takes to conquer Britain. An atomic V-2 launched from Britain might have been used to nuke New York. How long does America fight after that?

 

Hitler also curtailed a Navy project that produced a submarine that was capable of sailing under an Allied convoy and sinking every ship (including escorts) without being detected. Thankfully, the 3 prototypes produced by this project were only launched in 1945, one week AFTER Hitler's death.

 

If Operation Sealion had worked, the amphibious raid (detailed in the book Green Beach) that gave the Allies such valuable data on German radar could never have happened. Without that data, the Allies would have had a tough time dealing with U-boats and the Luftwaffe.

I thought the Heavy Water project was working from a flawed premise and that the 43-44 date was seen as optimistic but not attainable?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

Well, to get back on the original topic, since I'm not overly concerned with examining the minutiae of separating what-could-have-been from what-could-never-be, whatever the breakpoint from real world history, and however it happened, what would the modern US be like?

 

I like the idea of creepy parallels, and I would probably go overboard with them if I were to create an alternate world like this myself. With that in mind, a slice of my post-WWII history:

 

After the Nazi/Japanese takeover (or installation of puppet government, or election of appeaser toady government), the optimism of the American people is dashed. Minorities are discriminated against rather severely, with eugenics programs running full swing, Jews, Slavs, and others being forced to wear identifying insignia, a two-tier race based justice system, Tuscaloosa Projects becoming the norm for medical research. No one has the spirit to resist with any more force than muttered discontent, until the government announces the failure of the programs to limit minority population growth and recommences the Final Solution. The date is September 11, 2001.

[tancred]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

I thought the Heavy Water project was working from a flawed premise and that the 43-44 date was seen as optimistic but not attainable?

 

I'm afraid I'm not current on that. That could well be true; I just remembered reading that Hitler cancelled it and it was considered promising by historians writing shortly afterward. (Most of what I know about that sort of thing comes from just a couple of books, in particular The German Navy In World War Two, whose author's name escapes me.)

 

Back on topic, Enterprise had an episode at the beginning of this season where Germany had occupied the eastern U.S. The occupation looked much like what others here have expressed.

Of course, that required intervention by time-travelling aliens.

[OddHat]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

No one has the spirit to resist with any more force than muttered discontent' date=' until the government announces the failure of the programs to limit minority population growth and recommences the Final Solution. The date is September 11, 2001.[/quote']

 

The American Bundists, anti-communists, and anti-semites were very actively pro-Nazi; they would have enthusiastically supported an Ameican Nazi regime, and the Final Solution would have started in America a soon as they rose to power. Using the 9/11 date sounds impressive, but in the unlikely event of a German world conquest there wouldn't have been any known Jews left by then. You could possibly have 9/11 as the date of the Heroes arival; by that point, America would have been hapilly racially pure for 60 years, and would have finally recovered from the atomic attacks on New York and Washington; doubtless the arival of mongrel superbeings would be horrifying.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

The American Bundists' date=' anti-communists, and anti-semites were very actively pro-Nazi; they would have enthusiastically supported an Ameican Nazi regime, and the Final Solution would have started in America a soon as they rose to power. Using the 9/11 date sounds impressive, but in the unlikely event of a German world conquest there wouldn't have been any known Jews left by then. You could possibly have 9/11 as the date of the Heroes arival; by that point, America would have been hapilly racially pure for 60 years, and would have finally recovered from the atomic attacks on New York and Washington; doubtless the arival of mongrel superbeings would be horrifying.[/quote']You are correct that American Nazis in such a scenario would have long before eliminated all Jews in America, but it is unlikely they would have exterminated blacks, Slavs, and most other ethnic minorities. Nazis only viewed blacks, Asians and Slavs as racial inferiors, fit only for use as slave laborers or menials. They considered Jews to be equivalent to "human bacterium" within the Aryan body which could only be "cured" by total elimination.

[OddHat]

Re: Hypothetical Axis Amerika 2005

 

You are correct that American Nazis in such a scenario would have long before eliminated all Jews in America' date=' but it is unlikely they would have exterminated blacks, Slavs, and most other ethnic minorities. Nazis only viewed blacks, Asians and Slavs as racial inferiors, fit only for use as slave laborers or menials. They considered Jews to be equivalent to "human bacterium" within the Aryan body which could only be "cured" by total elimination.[/quote']

 

True enough. I was assuming that the purification program would have extended to blacks and asians in Nazi America by then, buiding on existing American tensions at the time, but that may not have been the course history would have taken. Very much story teller's call.