Romantic Villians

[BcAugust]

This just came up in a random brainstorming session with my group. There really isn't any male villians in the CU that could qualify as "romantic" interests for a female hero. While a fair number of female villians are possible romantic interests, or at least sympathtic, the males are usually all monsters of some sort, or complete scumbags. While I'm not actually surprised, given the source material, I'd like to see what the board could do.

 

So, the challenge. What do you think would make a good sympathtic villian/possible romantic interest for a female hero? What traits would you look for/avoid?

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

Hmmmmm . . .

 

Raw concept here, but:

 

First, he should have some kind of honor code. If he's to appeal to a heroic female at all, he can't be a total scumbag. CvK alone isn't going to do it; he has to have a rigid set of values, a line he won't cross, or he's just another villain.

 

High DEX is probably helpful. Women tend to notice men who are lighter on their feet and a little more graceful. If he moves well, even if they're fightin on oppsite sides, she'll be noticing how he moves. A lot of women mentally translate how men move to what their touch might feel like. Especially the ones who are "in the market," so to speak.

 

High PRE may also be helpful. This translates into being noticed by women and getting a reaction out of them.

 

COM is not necessary, but a plus. He can have an average COM but still be considered attractive, if the personality is right. A low COM is inadvisable.

 

Hmm. That's all I can think of for now. Any of that help?

[Korvar]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

Random thoughts:

 

He can't be all that evil... Roguish. Or someone who has his own code, at odds with society's.

 

A bad boy, who might be tamed by a good woman. A hint of a tragic past.

 

A gentleman thief, perhaps? Or an enforcer who seems to be trapped in his role - who, despite everything, will not harm innocents.

 

Or the new Lex Luthor type - a "reputable businessman" who seems to be involved in various shady dealings, but nothing ever sticks. And he finds this new opponent to be intriguing...

[Hermit]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

This just came up in a random brainstorming session with my group. There really isn't any male villians in the CU that could qualify as "romantic" interests for a female hero. While a fair number of female villians are possible romantic interests, or at least sympathtic, the males are usually all monsters of some sort, or complete scumbags. While I'm not actually surprised, given the source material, I'd like to see what the board could do.

 

So, the challenge. What do you think would make a good sympathtic villian/possible romantic interest for a female hero? What traits would you look for/avoid?

 

Interesting challenge... I know it is a cop out, but it really depends on the super heroine character in question, and the Player who runs her. Just like with guys, every woman has certain 'buttons' as well, and some players may not have thought about what their characters 'buttons' are. If you know your players, and they know their characters, you have a good idea where to start.

 

However, that may not be very useful...

 

I think chiefly, there has to be something in the villain that provides a reason for the PC superheroine to think he is redeemable. Whatever the basic personality, he has to have some 'soft spot' , possibly (sometimes even preferably) one that other NPCs may not see, but the PC is shown at least once in play. Are the heroine PC and Villain NPC breaking property? Maybe some kids are on the scene, and are endangered by falling debris. Suddenly the brick NPC abandons the fight to hold up a crumbling wall, perhaps asking "A little help here, beautiful?" , complaining about "stupid kids" but still helps, or maybe he acts absolutely aghast "God no!" and BEGS her to help save the kids because he doesn't want the blood on his hands.

 

I have some female Players in my group, and while their characters are varied, I have noticed a trend in what makes them decide "This one can be salvaged" about a super villain. Each and everyone shows a good or noble quality amidst the other traits.

 

The NPCs this seems to work best with are:

 

The Rogue- Fun loving and thrill seeking, he's probably into theft, thrills, and flirtations. He acts incredibly impressed with himself, but every once in a while lets a bit of a wink/nudge to hint that he knows he's full of crappola Usually, the most open to flirt and hit on the lady PC, he is actually a nice guy under there and may stop the play long enough to go "Are you okay?"

He listens, and who doesn't appreciate that? Of course, he might also try to get a lady to have some fun! and we all know how... interesting, such attempts can go.

 

The Wounded Lord/Warrior- Noble, honorable, a serious counterpoint to the rogue in many ways. While he may praise a heroine's beauty, it is done in a note of respect. This is the sort of guy who wouldn't dream of mistreating a woman outside of combat (Inside of combat, he's still going to have to mega blast her, natch). What's more, he has some past tragedy he can not heal from. I'm speaking emotionally, not physically. Perhaps his wife, who he loved more than life, was killed by a Government Agency's ineptness, and then covered up. Maybe he survived some genocidal purge, and swore it would never happen again, no matter WHAT he had to do to make it so. Perhaps his beloved mother is trapped in another dimenstion. Some of these are pretty standard in the comics if you look at it. Of course, the fellow could simply 'owe his life' to another villain and thus been dragged into it. His own 'honor' working against him.

 

The Trapped- This guy CAN'T help but be a villain, and it's not his word that is holding him in that life style. I suspect one reason some women go for vampires is the whole "he can't HELP what he is" idea. Perhaps the guy is wanted for murder, but draining life energy is the only way he can survive, and sometimes he can't help but take too much. Maybe the poor guy has a neural chip in his head that Doctor Destroyer uses to mind control him. Perhaps that guy on the super villain team who seems nicer than the others does crimes because the team leader has threatened to kill his family if he doesn't go along. In short, this is a combonation villain and "dude in distress", mix a geniunely nice guy in with that, and any super heroine PC worth her salt should be just itching to save him.

 

 

At least, those are the three basic types that seem to work best in my campaigns.

[Hermit]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

There really isn't any male villians in the CU that could qualify as "romantic" interests for a female hero.

 

 

You know, I haven't used him for such yet, but I think Torment of PSI could have possiblities.

[assault]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

One of the most sympathetic villains in editions previous to the current one didn't make it through: Shamrock.

 

He would be a character that could be worked up as a potential romantic interest without much difficulty. He's a Believer in a Cause, who is a "villain" because of his actions in support of that cause.

 

You might be able to find some others if you dug deep enough.

 

Of course, not being female, my judgement of what is attractive is rather limited.

 

Not everyone would be able to get over negative opinions of Shamrock's cause, either, so you might need some other alternatives too.

 

I can't think of any examples from the source material, but I will repeat my suggestion of checking older edition material.

 

Swashbuckling rogues and "heroes on the other side" are probably usually the best. "I don't want to do this but I have no choice" might work, but these characters may come off as slightly weak personalities. Of course, a heroic death, of whatever duration, will redeem them.

 

Ah! Actually, you might want to look at various "reformed villain" characters in the source material. Marvel in particular has a fair few such characters. Some had a fair bit of history before they changed sides.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

One of my characters has a little bit of a crush on one of her Hunteds. While he's not exactly a villain, he isn't a good guy, either.

 

What makes him appealing is effortless strength and sex appeal coming out of his pores.

 

So that's kind of an extreme example.

[Cardinal]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

Clearly you are fogetting about Bulldozer. As he will tell you, the ladies love Bulldozer.

 

In all seriousness, what about Chesire Cat, Slick or Lodestone. They are either mercenaries or thieves that do not like to injury people. They offer some potential.

 

Also, the Champion Universe seems to be replete with male Super Heroes who can serve as a romantic foil (Chicaro, Myridon, Defender, etc.).

 

Given the prevelance of male heros and female villans that are potential love interests, I wonder if DOJ has a thing for Good Boys and Bad Girls.

[BcAugust]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

Actually, we were specifically talking about this character http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=23728&page=1&highlight=Aegis

 

In play, Nox is... think Paladin, pretty much. Very loyal to her friends, follows the hero's code, and tends to have a pretty boring life outside of her superheroing.

[steriaca]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

While not a woman myself, I have RPed some women in the past (and other oddballs, like a crossdresing gagetear, ect...), so prehaps I might be os some service.

 

Yes, women tend to go for thieths. Just look at Tuxedo Karmen from Sailor Moon (yes, in the original japanies version, he started out as a masked jem theath...a sorta "Lupin" type charater...the original, not Lupin The 3rd). Add to that the fact that he is so sereous (a great counterpart to Usagi's zanyness at times), and a bit tragic. Defently one to sorta copy (or at least, study).

 

Another thing you might want to try is to have a "monster" type kidnap or endanger the heroien in question, then have the romantic villian show up and free her/take the blow fo her and give something in return. Makes them eather think that the romantic villian is intrested, or that something is odd in Denmark.

 

Finaly...your the god in your campain. You know your charaters beter than I do. Talk to them about what thay think about romantic villians. Thay may have some ideals.

[David Blue]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

Heh, you need your Namor, always an indispensable character type, otherwise the hero boyfriends get complacent. The path of true love never runs smooth.

 

First you need wealth - tremendous wealth, and status. You need King of the Seas, or Prince of the Star-spanning Sho-P'ing Empire. Make that wealth, and all the goodies his wife could have, highly visible, often. (Show it, don't have him talk about it!) He should hire others and not be hired himself. Emphasise his wealthy/aristocratic superiority over mere thug villains at every opportunity. Create such opportunities. Have him slap Bulldozer around for lack of manners to the heroine or to other women.

 

(edited in): Gifts! Perish forbid that I should forget exotic, expensive luxury gift-giving!

 

Trips to thrilling locations are good. Flight useable on others worked for Superman, but in my opinion spectacular vehicles are better for convenience and as ways to display wealth and style.

 

Then you need looks, which should not only be great, but exotic, so that square-jawed Regular-Guy-Man just can't compete. (If no hero is a rival for the beautiful heroine's hand, something is probably wrong and the gamemaster should address that. Are these guys all gay or what?) Wings, pointy ears, exotic eyes (not small and beady though!) and amazing skin colours are all good. The costume should show off a fair amount of that skin too, or at least be skin-tight, so the heroine knows what shape the guy is and how well he's built. Also, mystical/exotic super-senses are good, so he can get that Elf thing going and be constantly aware of higher things that lesser/dirty/mundane men are not aware of.

 

High stats are a must. He should be able to show the hero up in almost every area. Don't let him be a dweeb with gadgets! Have him pushing his rivals into that role! When there's a mano-a-mano bare-knuckled brawl over the heroine, Price O-Wow should have a big advantage, and Regular-Guy-Man should feel (with some reason) that if he doesn't cheat he'll be humiliated. (Even or especially if he doesn't cheat, it should look to the heroine like he has or might have, while the prince played fair.)

 

Do not explain everything about the bad-boy prince! It's tempting to give him a tragedy as an excuse for his evil actions and to suggest that he's redeemable, but I think that's a doubtful choice. If you do it, don’t elaborate on it, and for pity's sake don't have him elaborate on it. If the heroine classifies Prince O-Wow as a known quantity, like the other contenders for her hand, it's a great blow to his appeal.

 

(edited in) While mystical powers are good, mentalist powers may be dubious, depending on what the heroine is like. When in doubt, give the heroine no reason to think that her feelings may not be her own.

 

The prince needs an honour code, at least one that's good enough so he doesn't disgust the heroine and slaughter all her team-mates and/or normal relatives. But have him bend the code. First, chicks go for the bad guys, especially the rich, handsome, exotic bad boys. Second, again this makes it as hard as possible for decent, square-jawed Regular-Guy-Man to compete. Third, when he breaks a law for her (maybe he shouldn't be wooing a common earthling?) it's very appealing.

 

The prince also needs a rival. I mean everyone in his kingdom or whatever should agree that he is Mister Eligible, but there should be a native hottie who is overtly villainous (or in some other way unacceptable in the heroine's eyes) who is especially convinced of Exotic Prince O-Wow's appeal, and may get him if the heroine doesn't. The worse relations are between the native rival and the player character heroine the better, as it sets up the heroine as a rival - and heroines shouldn't accept defeat, right?

 

There are plenty of classic bits to run with this sort of romantic tension. Have fun!

[Funksaw]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

Another archetype: The beast - the monsterous person who doesn't want to be monstrous. If you want to think of it this way, "The Hulk" is a villian who just happens to be the protagonist of the tale.

 

You also have a whole bunch of "monsters that don't want to be monsters" (see: Wolf Crap, White) and refined thieves - an art thief with refined taste who doesn't kill, a hitman who does the One Last Job so that he can retire... etc.

[Iuz the Evil]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

What's wrong with Dr. Destroyer? You know he's got money, power, and check out the PRE (charisma)! What lady could resist the dulcet tones of... "Yield yourself to Destroyer or be annihilated!"

 

C'mon, he's DEAD SEXY!

[Lightray]

I'd think Menton would be a good romantic interest for a subplot - suave, learned, handsome, charming. And when superheroine finds out who he is, you've got all the angst wondering if her love was real, or only subtle telepathic coercion.

 

Also, there's Teleos. If you play him as a not-quite-supervillain, but more of a foil or antihero, he'd be an excellent romantic interest.

 

If not, there's always Foxbat...

[Superskrull]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

What's wrong with Dr. Destroyer? You know he's got money, power, and check out the PRE (charisma)! What lady could resist the dulcet tones of... "Yield yourself to Destroyer or be annihilated!"

 

C'mon, he's DEAD SEXY!

 

Sounds more like "find him sexy or you're dead" to me. On the other hand, having Destroyer spew lines to a female PC like "I have calculated that your genetic code would have the most optimized results in combination with my own. Come with me now and our children shall rule the stars themselves." could be a real hoot.

[Chuckg]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

Menton, the guy who uses women for cruelty receptacles and sick headgames like the Purple Man used Jessica Jones?

 

Teleios, the guy who grows his sex partners in vats and then throws them back into the vats to be disassembled into protein goo again as soon as his itch is scratched?

 

You suggest these guys for romance?

 

I choose to believe that those were jokes in the most extremely poor of taste. Because believing that is far preferable than believing the alternatives.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

What? No love for Grond?

[OddHat]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

In my rustiest Ruty Iron game, in 1994, one of the chief mercenaries was a bad guy named Bloodbath. Incredibly violent, powerful psychokinetic with the power to control blood. He went into combat in blood soked blue jeans and not much else.I played him as a loud mouthed sarcastic bisexual punk, strutting, boasting, making crude sexual threats filled with S&M imagery.

 

The New Age girl and the gay guy in that group both had their characters attempt to pursue romantic relationships with him.

 

Years later, Buffy slept with Spike, and fan girls and boys all over the Internet swooned.

 

So, I'd say that a good body, a quick wit, and a dominant personality are the keys to romantic appeal for a fictional villain. There should be some hint that he can be "redeemed" as part of the story arc, and the GM should understand that as soon as he is redeemed he'll lose his bad boy appeal. No one likes a fantasy Cad to turn into a Dad, even if some women believe that is something they want in real life.

 

In my New Circle thread, Legend is good for women looking for a White Knight, and Chang Kar Wai, Arthur Jacoby, and Haunt might all work as Cads. Chang has the angry wounded nobility thing, Arthur can play the sexy brute, and Haunt is the Mike Hammer type. For that matter, Always is good for female characters looking for someone to "heal".

[Iuz the Evil]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

What? No love for Grond?

 

Hmmm... I can see it. "Why pretty lady look at puny man like that? Grond not like puny man!! GROND SMASH PUNY MAN!!!!"

 

Oh yeah, feel the love.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

Take some of the merc characters ... someone like Mechassassin could be quite suave out of costume and could also make for an interesting plot line. Hell, one of the characters in my campaign finds Foxbat attractive ... even though he's taken in my game

[Hex]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

A bad boy, who might be tamed by a good woman. A hint of a tragic past.

 

A gentleman thief, perhaps?

 

My lightweight brick has Cheshire Cat as a contact. This happened when she checked out his drivers license while he was out cold and found out his secret identity and address. Anytime she shows up to blackmail him for info or a favor he puts the moves on her and really overplays "how such a strong sexy woman has him at such a disadvantage" and that he's "at her mercy" (all this being said with a roguish grin). He also continuously gives her roses and tries to surprise her with romantic dinners.

 

Depending on how you want to play him, he closely fits the bill you're describing. He had his origin while trying to kill himself after his wife left him, and while he's definitely a catburglar he sticks to that and not actual violence.

[devlin1]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

This seems fairly simple to me: a 16+ COM, a 15+ PRE, at least 5 points in the Money Perk, and Bob's your uncle!

[Steve]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

Well, for the noble alien prince, I think Firewing could fit this role, maybe with some tweaking.

[BcAugust]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

Very helpful and useful thread so far. Special bows and thanks to Hermit, Owl wife, and David Blue. You've helped a lot.

 

While sadly I won't be able to use any of this for a while(My Dm and I have agreed to let any such subplot wait until I finish a current one), my group and I will find this information useful. Though, I have to admit that several things have popped up that I didn't expect.

 

So, some further questions.

 

How do you think Age would play into this, aka Golden, Silver, Bronze, Iron, or Stainless steel?

 

Do you think the villian should ever "win" the girl? And if he does, what do you think would happen, gamewise?

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Romantic Villians

 

First you need wealth - tremendous wealth' date=' and status . . . .(edited). . . .[/quote']

 

You're really cynical about women, aren't you?

 

Do you think the villian should ever "win" the girl? And if he does' date=' what do you think would happen, gamewise?[/quote']

 

That could happen. I'm thinking of a game where one PC was pursuing a female villain. They went on several dates together in their secret IDs, and she never realized who he was. Depending on her attachment to him, that could've gone one of 2 ways:

 

1. She realizes he's been "lying" to her and becomes his worst enemy. A woman scorned, and all that.

 

2. She gradually gets to know him better and comes around to his way of thinking.

 

I saw #2 as being more likely, since she'd started off as a villain only because she had a tendency to hurt people whenever she used her powers. She'd helped our PCs before when another villain stepped over a line that would've gotten the people she cared about hurt.

 

How a female PC being "gotten" affects game play depends on a lot of factors. First, how averse is she to seeing his side of things? How much does she care about him? Is there a "it's me or them" kind of choice necessary? How much does he care for her?

 

In the example I gave of my character having a crush on her Hunted, being "gotten" would mean being bedded and nothing more. It would alter her perspective of the world and make her more open to pursuing relationships, but no relationship would develop between the 2 characters. More likely, we'd end up with a romantic relationship between 2 PCs, in the end.

 

As for Foxbat as a romantic interest . . . ^ v ^

 

He actually has a little bit of a crush on a member of our party, and it's not the one with the highest COM. The player has no idea, and figures he was just puppydogging her to be annoying. That was a fun game.