Vondy Posted June 3, 2003 Report Share Posted June 3, 2003 Originally posted by WhammeWhamme Didja *hafta* use us? The US doesn't want another state Have you asked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted June 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Re: If only wishes came true . Originally posted by TheQuestionMan From what I've read so far Scott it looks like you got a lot of work ahead of you . You also opened the Herophile/Pandors's box . Are you gong to be able to close it ? I look forward to your updates and teasers . You are going to keep us updated aren't you ? I don't want to get into specifics (especially since Steve has the final say on what goes in here), but I'm finishing up the agents chapter right now, and I'm counting over thirty types of agents here, from General Combat Specialists to Underworld Specialists to Snake Cultists to VIPER ninja. There's also at least four special squads, each treated like.supervillains with their very own plot hooks Over the last year or so, Steve and I have been working out the background of VIPER. No one's really complained about it, but given that the concept of evil agencies have their roots in the pulp genre, VIPER's history lacks the appropriate depth and gravitas. Neo-Nazis and labor organizers? Bah! VIPER should have a more epic stature - a more "pulp" feeling. Hopefully the new history and the identity of the Supreme Serpent will provide it and generate lots of cool story hooks. How's that for a tease? I'm pretty confident that what Steve and I will provide will knock the socks off the original book. Scott Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 I'm sold. Gimme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberknight Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 That's more of a "Capsule Preview" than a tease...now, Viperia in a swimsuit...*that* is a tease...and we're back to the Omega Destruction Rifle and Battle Bikini Seriously...sounds great. Where do I sign up to pre-order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Ohhh yeahhh.... sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balok Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Not to pick nits ... but I think the man said over thirty types of agents... <slinks away> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Well if there will be 30 agent types then I guess I won't complain about the reduced number of villains:) Some other things I'd like would be: 1] A Supreme Serpent who part of Viper and motivated by the goals that Viper espouses. The alien computer was a neat concept but it took away from perceived threat IMO. The overall goal of Viper should be the vision of its leader(s). 2] Don't make the Supreme Serpent someone who has appeared elsewhere in the CU. Give me an original with original motivation and background. 3]Focus more on the worldwide scope of Viper and especially how it works in Third World nations. An organization with the resources that 4th Ed Viper possessed would own many of these smaller countries outright and could do so legitimately. (There's a campaign twist for you, Hermit:) ) Viper would then take on rouge nation status on the world stage but would be harder than ever to completely wipe out. Nests would be more like large terrorist cells. The last Viper supplement was one of best books for 4th Ed so I feel confident that you'll deliver the goods this time as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Viperia. Cool. I pretty much echo what has been said... Have enough info to be able to run a Viper campaign and the rest follows from that. I loved all of the viper agents diary stuff from the first one. Have a lot of that in there, for color and feel. It really helped bring the agents and agency to life. VF2 is one of the best teams around. I'd love to see them. And of course I have to drop my two cents in about the surpeme serpent I have always used the idea that it is Freddy Foswell, and his other, more well known, rather comedic persona is a dodge to keep people unbalanced, and a way to get close to the heroes to get info he would never get any other means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Destroyer Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Hello, Hmm, seems I'm getting into this thread a bit late, but, Originally Posted by AgentX: I want to know why Viper has all that nifty, mass-produced gear and the government doesn't. It is one of the great stumbling blocks in my use of these sorts of organizations. Here is the real answer to your question: Massive, politically influenced weapons-procurement bureaucracy. If you look at some of the fiascos that have gone on in American weapons procurement, you'll think it a wonder that the United States has any weapons at all. Look at the fairly recent Advanced Combat Rifle project, an attempt at finding a replacement for the aging M-16 series of rifles (which has a ridiculous and convoluted development and procurement history of its own). Even caseless ammunition - heck, even plastic-cased ammunition - is too radical for the bureaucracies. Do you really think they'd go for something as sci-fi as beam weapons, especially since they're not really much more effective than current weapons (2d6 Killing Damage, with Autofire, for a $500 M-16, vs. 10d6 Normal for a VIPER blast rifle)? Even the "high-tech" new OICW (an over-complex, overpriced, overweight pipe dream, in my opinion) is an ordinary .223 assault rifle with a whiz-bang grenade launcher stuck on top of it. And then there's the political side of it. The trials that selected the U. S. military's new 9mm pistol dragged on years longer than necessary because one designer had political clout, while the trial winner, a foreign design, didn't. Re-tests were ordered again and again, in the hope of exposing some flaw in the foreign design. Only when it became undeniably obvious to all that the American design was inferior was the foreign design adopted as the M9. These struggles only become fiercer as the items procured rise in price. The MBT-70 tank with its advanced Shillelagh gun/missile system, the XB-70 Valkyrie bomber, various mobile ICBM projects, the A-12 carrier-borne stealth attack fighter, and most recently the Crusader artillery system - all had lots of technological potential, but not enough political pull. There are constant whisperings that a certain fighter was judged a winner of a fly-off because its manufacturer was located in the state of the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, or that certain submarines continue to be built only to preserve shipyard jobs in the state of another influential Senator. Every American competitor for every project has its own patron Congressman or Defense Department official, and, opposed to them all, there are plenty of dovish politicians who think that America already has more than enough weapons, and that these will suffice indefinitely no matter how much the state of the technological art advances beyond them. Other first world countries are just about as bad. See L85 rifle (UK), Stingray lightweight torpedo (UK), Rubis-class submarines (France), Rafale fighter (France), T-64 Tank (Russia), et multiple cetera. These sorts of stories, and MANY others like them, are the sort of thing that make the limited usage of exotic super-tech weapons one of the most believable aspects of superhero universes to me. Originally Posted by AgentX: To the point: Why wouldn't a Silver Avenger want to have a personal jet pack or sky cycle? They probably would. And I'm sure if he went and got one with his own money, he'd probably be allowed to use it on the job. But putting it in the annual Budget Request...well, if we give him one, all the other Silver Avengers will want one. And for procurement on that scale we'll need a Request for Proposals, and trials among those who respond, and...well, you get the idea. Much quicker and easier just to make arrangements with the local cops for rides on their helicopter when you need one. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirakane Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 I would like to see options and guidlines to try to make agent fights more streamlined and faster to run. And religating agents back to the support role that comic books give agents. Every time I see an agent fight these days in Champions I know its going to be long and tedious and boring on several levels as the heros try to wade through 5 times their number in agents. All mainly because agents become one Giant Killer Amoeba with 100+ actions per turn and 75% damage reduction and 1/2 your DCV with an RSR:Teamwork. Agents from Hydra or UNIGang don't dominate the battle field in comics. Thier supervillians (the people with personality) do, but the "agent battle" often only takes only a panel or two to resolve. And in general you have think poorly of heroes that are removed by the nameless, faceless, horde of goons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Already placed my orders Yeeesss , that was a tease . Looking forward to spending my money on this one for sure . I hope to see lots of Vehicles , Robots , and Bases ... ooooh yeeeh !!! What else do we have to look forward to ? . The Agent Diaries are a great idea . More , more more .. VIPER Force-2 ROCKED . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Afterthought The VIPER ninja wouldn't happen to be practicioners of Mist Viper Taijutsu from UMA, would they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Looking forward to the book. I always loved Viper, although I got away from the AI computer theory. I place someone in charge of VIPER behind the scenes. Looking forward to see what all you've done to improve them, the multipule agent type alone is a great start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Chaos Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 I'll say this I've known Scott for a long time and even during the periods where I didn't talk to him I've nothing but respect for his ability. His name on the book assures I'll buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted June 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Re: Afterthought Originally posted by Peregrine The VIPER ninja wouldn't happen to be practicioners of Mist Viper Taijutsu from UMA, would they? No.I had in mind a martial art that was more of a combination of grappling and striking techniques, so there's a new one in the book. But Steve's the master of Hero martial arts (as well as the owner of the ccmpany), so what he says goes. :-) Scott Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Originally posted by tiger Looking forward to the book. I always loved Viper, although I got away from the AI computer theory. I place someone in charge of VIPER behind the scenes. Maybe the AI was programmed by a genetically altered lab mouse.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Originally posted by BobGreenwade Maybe the AI was programmed by a genetically altered lab mouse.... Nah!...I have a far sicker mind than that Another word for Supreme is? A type of serpent is? Put them together and...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Re: Re: Afterthought Originally posted by GestaltBennie No.I had in mind a martial art that was more of a combination of grappling and striking techniques, so there's a new one in the book. But Steve's the master of Hero martial arts (as well as the owner of the ccmpany), so what he says goes. :-) Scott Bennie *shrug* If the final product says 'no', I can always modify for my own campaigns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Re: Re: Afterthought Originally posted by GestaltBennie No.I had in mind a martial art that was more of a combination of grappling and striking techniques, so there's a new one in the book. But Steve's the master of Hero martial arts (as well as the owner of the ccmpany), so what he says goes. :-) Scott Bennie King Cobra's Coil organization from Champions Presents II had a unique martial art based on snake's movements. Scott, will the maneuvers in your art have evocatively serpentine names like that one did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted June 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Afterthought Originally posted by Lord Liaden King Cobra's Coil organization from Champions Presents II had a unique martial art based on snake's movements. Scott, will the maneuvers in your art have evocatively serpentine names like that one did? Yep. The maneuvers all have nice, snaky names. Scott Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted July 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Just a bit of an update. I'm finishing up my sections and should be turning over my draft to Steve tomorrow. I've been looking through the thread and bolstering my sections based on your feedback. I can't wait to see what the playetesters do with it (aside from correcting my horrible Bennie math) I think it's turning out to be a pretty cool book. Thanks for your help and ideas! Scott Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Originally posted by GestaltBennie I can't wait to see what the playetesters do with it (aside from correcting my horrible Bennie math) My whole purpose in life is to correct everyone's horrible math. Great news Scott! I am looking forward to the book. Now take a 4 day break and then start working on Villainy Amok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by BobGreenwade Maybe the AI was programmed by a genetically altered lab mouse.... No no no you silly boy, the genetically altered lab mouse runs ARGENT, everybody knows that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Sometimes I hate you folks . Envy is a terrible thing . The desire to be apart of a Champions sourcebook like VIPER . Well I'll wait and read the updates or fish for them . Thanks for letting us contribute and I hope this kind of thing becomes offical policy for all Hero Games products . Thanks Bennie and Steve . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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