Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

[RDU Neil]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

Without continuity of story and consistency of character, the good story can last only as long as the current arc and /or writer.

 

If that long.

 

 

Totally with you there. Without solid continuity, comics become crap rehashes and pointless "nothing changes" stories. Now... they are that for the most part, anyway... but lack of continuity and the blase attitude toward it is because of that.

 

Continuity doesn't have to demand every character constantly interacting with every other character... it just means that when they do cross over, it should have meaning and impact and not contradict things.

 

If comics are going to tell stories... they need to be finite. Beginning, middle and end... to provide a narrative structure and thematic closure. Since comics have this monthly serial nature which quicly grows stale and unfulfilling because there is no true Story... just random plots... then continuity is required to give that big picture, meaningful context. Unfortunately, this has never been the case... but Marvel certainly gave it a try from the mid-Sixties to the early '80s.

[Dominique]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

Dragon Force... holy crap. I didn't think anyone had that comic but me. Did you also get the prequel...Dragon Ring? It was more pulpy action' date=' until the [i']Dragon Ring [/i]turned everyone into supers for Dragon Force. Some of the earliest art by Dale Keown, IIRC.

 

I got the last issue of Dragon Ring, and managed to find the two additional issues. I never really looked around the net to see if they were any more out there.

 

Also, you guys really should check out Pantheon from Lone Star Press- http://www.lonestarpress.com/ - It was written by Bill Willingham. It's got a lot of the same feel as Elementals (Bill stated he used some of the ideas he planned for the Elementals), and some of the characters are pretty interesting. I like it, which means it will probably die a slow death in obscurity.

[Blue]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

I'd say Justice Machine but I don't think that was a matter of having any haters out there; It just wasn't circulated wide enough to make the big splash. And every time a new company bought it they had a new format size for the comic.

[Emerald Mask]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

On further reflection - Strikeforce Mortitori, Starman, Infinity Inc. the Mighty Crusaders, Moon Knight .

[Black Omega]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

Yeah... both those series were great. Couldn't list 'em as "no one else did" since most of my friends all loved 'em. Great crossover' date=' too.[/quote']

One of my favorite crossovers, it really got me hooked on both Checkmate and Suicide Squad, enough so I went back and got backissues for both.

 

Another favorite scene. Duchess and Peacemaker back to back mowing down Kobra agents.

 

Peacemaker: Nice Gun.

Duchess: Made it myself.

Peacemaker: Make me one?

[RDU Neil]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

I got the last issue of Dragon Ring, and managed to find the two additional issues. I never really looked around the net to see if they were any more out there.

 

Also, you guys really should check out Pantheon from Lone Star Press- http://www.lonestarpress.com/ - It was written by Bill Willingham. It's got a lot of the same feel as Elementals (Bill stated he used some of the ideas he planned for the Elementals), and some of the characters are pretty interesting. I like it, which means it will probably die a slow death in obscurity.

 

I mentioned Pantheon in my first post, I think. I liked it... still can't find issue 12 (though I've read the last issue, 13, so I know what happens.)

[RDU Neil]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

One of my favorite crossovers, it really got me hooked on both Checkmate and Suicide Squad, enough so I went back and got backissues for both.

 

Another favorite scene. Duchess and Peacemaker back to back mowing down Kobra agents.

 

Peacemaker: Nice Gun.

Duchess: Made it myself.

Peacemaker: Make me one?

 

Heh... Peacemaker didn't make it out alive in that series, or am I remembering it incorrectly?

[Dominique]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

I'm missing issues 2 & 12 of Pantheon, but I plan on picking up the FC TPB once they release it. Any of you guys remember Hero Alliance?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

Any of you guys remember Hero Alliance?

 

Anlther good book that ceased publication too quickly.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

Anlther good book that ceased publication too quickly.

 

I think I have every version of Hero Alliance... the graphic novel, the mini-series, the second series, etc. It got a little too plotless and "good girl art" heavy near the end, but there were some amazing stories in there. The one about the guy whose only superpower was superfast perception... who couldn't react to it, but only ended up staring down the bullet he knew was going to kill him but couldn't get out of the way.

 

Solid, solid stuff.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

Since the characters have been mentioned, I'll point out that Essential Moon Knight vol 1, Essential Iron Fist vol 1 and Essential Power Man vol 1 are all out now. (As is Essential Godzilla vol 1)

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

The 'Nam was pretty good (both art and story)' date=' but Frank Castle's appearance killed it.[/quote']

 

Wait. The 'Nam was set in the real world, or so I recall. How could a Marvel Universe character show up in it?

 

Though I do remember an imaginary issue where one soldier (a Marvel Universe fan) imagines Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America ending the whole war in one afternoon. That was pretty cool, I must admit.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

(As is Essential Godzilla vol 1)

 

Seriously?!? I loved that comic! It was my first intro to the Marvel Universe (aside from some issues of Spider-Man), and I loved the way SHIELD was handled in it. Dum-Dum Dugan as Thunderbolt Ross VS. The Big G was hilarious.

 

EDIT: Did I say "show"? Argh! I meant to say "comic", and have so edited it above.

 

But I am still surprised to see the Big G out in a collection. I've also been told by my local comic shop owner that this book will only be published once, so if you want a copy, better hurry.

 

Oh yes: anyone know anything about the rumored Essential Master of Kung-Fu or the Essential Doc Savage?

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

Seriously?!? I loved that show! It was my first intro to the Marvel Universe (aside from some issues of Spider-Man)' date=' and I loved the way SHIELD was handled in it. Dum-Dum Dugan as Thunderbolt Ross VS. The Big G was hilarious.[/quote']

 

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/

 

Oooo...and apparently Essential Nova vol 1 is coming out 03/29/06...

[Black Omega]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

Heh... Peacemaker didn't make it out alive in that series' date=' or am I remembering it incorrectly?[/quote']As far as I recall, he survived, and was later killed by Eclipso. A quick google check seems to back this up. But I don't recall if it looked like he died in that series or not. Quite a few people did. This is a good excuse to dig up the crossover and read it again.

[Dominique]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

As far as I recall' date=' he survived, and was later killed by Eclipso. A quick google check seems to back this up. But I don't recall if it looked like he died in that series or not. Quite a few people did. This is a good excuse to dig up the crossover and read it again.[/quote']

 

Suicide Squad was a solid book, and with the exception of the Suicide Squad/Doom Patrol crossover, the almost all the deaths were handled well (unlike many of DCs more recent house cleanings). I never did get into the revived series they tried to start up.

 

While I'm thining about it, I can't figure out why the Will Payton Starman didn't catch on. While it may not have been grim or gritty (which seemed to be the trend a lot of comics were taking at the time, it was a fun read every month.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

I really liked Fusion. It had a very Cowboy Bebop/Firefly sort of feel to it.

 

Also the funniest backup stories in all of comix - Weasel Patrol!

 

run awaaaaay!

[Vondy]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

Totally with you there. Without solid continuity, comics become crap rehashes and pointless "nothing changes" stories. Now... they are that for the most part, anyway... but lack of continuity and the blase attitude toward it is because of that.

 

 

This is also the result of the open ended nature of comics. As an open series, they just go on forever, every month, without respite. That's a killer for writers. I much prefer closed series with strong beginnings, middles, and ends. These don't always have to result in major changes to the characters, but seeing them grow is nice. I think comic quality would be better served by running in planned arcs than by going on ad infinitum. If a story ends it ends. If the character has no more story to tell he is is laid to comic-dom rest, or just goes away until another writer comes up with a good story that takes the previous ones into account. It'll never happen due to franchise economics, but it would be nice to see.

[ArmlessTigerMan]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

The Blue Lily - a four issue mini series from Dark Horse that was cancelled after two issues. I never saw it for sale anywhere. My brothers' girlfriend found it behind some shop where they were throwing copies of it and other stuff away.

 

It was set in a retro-noir-future with a Chandler-esque robot p.i. as the main character, mixing sci-fi and detective tropes. It was no Bladerunner, but I would've liked to have read the other two issues. How bad do sales have to be to cancel a four issue series halfway through the run?

[RDU Neil]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

This is also the result of the open ended nature of comics. As an open series' date=' they just go on forever, every month, without respite. That's a killer for writers. I much prefer closed series with strong beginnings, middles, and ends. These don't always have to result in major changes to the characters, but seeing them grow is nice. I think comic quality would be better served by running in planned arcs than by going on ad infinitum. If a story ends it ends. If the character has no more story to tell he is is laid to comic-dom rest, or just goes away until another writer comes up with a good story that takes the previous ones into account. It'll never happen due to franchise economics, but it would be nice to see.[/quote']

 

 

Abso-fraggin'-lutely!

 

There was a discussion way back in the early '80s when mini-series were first coming out. From DC, wasn't it something like Tales of the Green Lantern Corps or somesuch? And from Marvel, the original Contest of Champions? Anyway... around that time, there were comments that "mini-series are the future of comics" in that the story arc, short series with a closing, would become the new mainstay of comic publishing. (In many ways, this is how it works in Japanese comics publishing.) I was really looking forward to that, but the mass market packagin of comics as product rather than comics as medium for good story telling won out in the end.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

As for new comics... anyone reading Team Zero??

 

Set in the Wildstorm universe, it is Chuck Dixon's take on a group of commandos who are the baddest of the bad, pulled for suicide missions during WWII. It sets up the model that would become Team 7 and feed into WildCATS, Deathblow, Backlash and all that stuff. It has some great pacing and dialogue (hallmarks of Dixon) along with some of the best art Doug Mahnke has ever produced. A great action comic, like Dixon's earlie Team 7, Brubaker's Sleeper and other Wildstorm comics that... when written by good writers... are truly great.

 

(The same character's written by the likes of Brandon Choi or other '90s staple Image/Wildstorm writers were utter schieze... but Dixon, Robinson, Moore, Brubaker, Ellis and others... when they wrote those books nothing could beat the Wildstorm universe, IMO.)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

There was a discussion way back in the early '80s when mini-series were first coming out. From DC' date=' wasn't it something like [i']Tales of the Green Lantern Corps [/i]or somesuch? And from Marvel, the original Contest of Champions?

 

IIRC, the first mini-series was World of Krypton from DC. They then had a Batman mini and I think a Legion of Super Heroes mini before the GL mini. Marvel got on the bandwagon a bit later, and I think you're right that it was Contest of Champions.

 

Of course, before the advent of the miniseries, we had series like Showcase and Marvel Spotlight, Marvel Feature, etc. that would change their lead character on a regular basis. These were often used as showcases for possible new books. Now we just get a miniseries instead.

[BigJackBrass]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

Of course, before the advent of the miniseries, we had series like Showcase and Marvel Spotlight, Marvel Feature, etc. that would change their lead character on a regular basis. These were often used as showcases for possible new books. Now we just get a miniseries instead.

 

A mistake, I tend to think. It's rare for a mini-series to grab my attention, but a "showcase" title (and I used to read a few of these) is much more likely to hold my attention, if the quality tends to be high. Reading through a few reprints of this sort of comic, as I've been doing this week, I definitely feel that an ongoing title featuring new, or a rotating cast of, characters gives much greater scope for experimentation and dabbling with ideas which might not merit an entire title of their own.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

IIRC, the first mini-series was World of Krypton from DC. They then had a Batman mini and I think a Legion of Super Heroes mini before the GL mini. Marvel got on the bandwagon a bit later, and I think you're right that it was Contest of Champions.

 

Of course, before the advent of the miniseries, we had series like Showcase and Marvel Spotlight, Marvel Feature, etc. that would change their lead character on a regular basis. These were often used as showcases for possible new books. Now we just get a miniseries instead.

 

Yah... World of Krypton was first... but I thought ToGLC was right around then. All those first DC minis came out very close together. I think I have all of 'em.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Comics you loved...but apparently no one else did

 

A mistake' date=' I tend to think. It's rare for a mini-series to grab my attention, but a "showcase" title (and I used to read a few of these) is much more likely to hold my attention, if the quality tends to be high. Reading through a few reprints of this sort of comic, as I've been doing this week, I definitely feel that an ongoing title featuring new, or a rotating cast of, characters gives much greater scope for experimentation and dabbling with ideas which might not merit an entire title of their own.[/quote']

 

And that is where marketing gets the phrase "I know 50% of my marketing dollars are wasted... I just don't know which half!"

 

To me, a well developed mini-series is so much better than a comic that will have very radical changes of tone and quality and such every month. I really don't like the Showcase concept, and I do look at mini-series for introducing me to new stuff. Investing four to six issues is perfect, IMO, for getting the solid narrative of an ongoing series without the mind-numbing "have to put out an issue every month even if it's crap" problem with ongoing series.

 

Not to say I can't enjoy a good comic that is self-contained... just that a good self contained mini is "more" of what I want.

 

(In the end, the main problem is that the self-contained issue, the mini and the ongoing series are all crap pumped out to an audience that has unfortunately proven themselve geeky in the worst possible way... they are undescerning and lacking critical taste as long as they get their monthly "X fix" or whatever.)