[GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

[TheQuestionMan]

Greeting HEROphiles, I come to you for help, advice, and wisdom, because my Players are smarter than I am. I know I know hard to believe, but they have no Detective skillsz at all, but managed to unravel my Mystry Adventure so fast I ran out of clues and had to do some fancy verbal foot work to keep things interesting.

 

How do you write/run a Mystry/Detective Adventure?

 

Thanks

 

QM

[Jhereg]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

It's tricky, but mysteries are a staple of my games. Staying flexible is the most important thing for me. Have contingencies prepared; other directions you can go in case they start figuring things out too early. You can also throw some red herrings to take up time, and get them looking in the wrong place.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

Personally, I'll let them solve it "early" if they happen to go the right way. I'm not going to sabotage correct actions on their part just to make the game adhere to a pre-set schedule.

 

To me, the key to not having the mystery solved too "early" is to not plan any specific clues, avenues of investigation, etc. Seriously.

 

For example, if it was a murder mystery, I would decide on who the murdered person was, who did it and why (ie, the solution), and I would decide how the characters will initially learn of the murder, where and when the body was found, etc. (ie, the hook).

 

That's it. I define point A (the hook), and I define point Z (the solution). I deliberately don't define anything in between. 'Cause if I do, I tend to either give the clues away too soon or too obviously, or I don't allow the players sufficient opportunity to charge down blind alleys on their own (which players love to do if you'll just let them).

[dbsousa]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

I start by making an informal flow chart, working backwards from the climax.

 

For example, let's say my final scene takes place in the Villain's fortress, underneath the Statue of Liberty, where he is about to launch his Destructo-Satellite.

 

I come up with three or four ways to find out this info.

1. The Villian's chief muscle knows enough about the plan to lead them to the lair.
   
2. The Villain's chief scientist knows that the launch codes are being broadcast on Frequency X, and the heroes can triangulate the signal
   
3. One of the Villain's minions knows the password to the security system is "Huddled Masses"
   

I draw a line from each of these to the climax. Then for each of the previous clues, I write up three or four ways to arrive at that clue These secondary clues should not send anyone to the climax directly. They should merely point them towards one of the primary clues. I then draw lines from each secondary clue to the corresponding primary clue.

 

I do that one more time, attaching tertiary clues to the secondary clues and I have between 27 and 64 places to start my story.

 

Once I have a bunch of clues on the page, I think about ways to move laterally along the flowchart. If some of the tertiary clues lead to other tertiary clues, I will draw a line between them, and the same with secondary clues.

 

Then, when the players are at any point in the story, you can slow things down by pointing them laterally, or speed things up by moving closer to the climax.

 

Each move on the chart should involve some sort of interaction, whether social or with fisticuffs and laser beams. The chart gives you an idea about what clues can be gleaned at each juncture, and what anyonwe on the scene might know. Be easy on your players, they can't read your mind. Any reasonable line of inquiry should yield some information that moves them along. If they are flailing, move them laterally, so that they get a broader picture. If they have figured out the pertinent details, move them forward, so as not to bore them or throw them off track in a confusing manner.

 

Now, I just do most of this in my head, but if I have a complicated plot, I still like to chart it out...

[Tech]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

It's tricky' date=' but mysteries are a staple of my games. Staying flexible is the most important thing for me. Have contingencies prepared; other directions you can go in case they start figuring things out too early. You can also throw some red herrings to take up time, and get them looking in the wrong place.[/quote']

 

Ah, red herrings. Fun! TheQuestionMan, I suggest writing down a brief outline of your mystery before doing your game. Write out what the mystery is, how is came about and what leads the heroes to solving it. Once you have your outline, you have plenty of room to add what you want to it.

 

Here's one red herring I'm going to use sooner or later:

During the course of an investigation, a clue will pop up (perhaps a matches cover) that will direct the heroes to a seemingly empty building. A PER roll will reveal one area of the building that seems much cleaner than everywhere else.

Here's the red herring: the matches cover is in no way connected to the investigation; the wind blew it over where the heroes find it. The building is indeed empty since the company folded. The cleaner area was where the owner of the building finally removed a large piece of furniture much later than all the other pieces, hence it's cleaner.

 

With an outline, you can always move the players towards the goal if they get sidetracked. If the players start to figure things out faster than you anticipated, have some sidequests occur that take up the heroes time.

An example might be: while traveling to the next scene, the hero comes across a boy on the street crying. The boy will tell them his dog ran into a building and hasn't come back. The building happens to be the hideout of a supervillain who likes dogs and decided to keep it for himself.

 

Sidequests for heroes gives you breathing room if the players seem especially keen on figuring out all the clues you put before them. It also allows you to move them towards figuring out the mystery if, for some reason, they get sidetracked on something insignificant. It also allows you to speed things up if the game is running too late.

[John Desmarais]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

I found the info on this site to be helpful: http://www.gillianroberts.com/writing.html

[Chimpira]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

Personally, I'll let them solve it "early" if they happen to go the right way. I'm not going to sabotage correct actions on their part just to make the game adhere to a pre-set schedule.

 

To me, the key to not having the mystery solved too "early" is to not plan any specific clues, avenues of investigation, etc. Seriously.

 

For example, if it was a murder mystery, I would decide on who the murdered person was, who did it and why (ie, the solution), and I would decide how the characters will initially learn of the murder, where and when the body was found, etc. (ie, the hook).

 

That's it. I define point A (the hook), and I define point Z (the solution). I deliberately don't define anything in between. 'Cause if I do, I tend to either give the clues away too soon or too obviously, or I don't allow the players sufficient opportunity to charge down blind alleys on their own (which players love to do if you'll just let them).

 

I set mine up in a very similiar fashion. I do think about who has what information and how I might set up foreshadowing for another adventure that might be several game sessions ahead. I do not try to make my mysteries so tight that if they (The PC's) do not get a hold of Mr. X (with the desired information) that the game is stalled.

 

For a lot of it I tend to introduce characters into the game before they become involved in a mystery storyline. It might be a random meeting or a newspaper article or whatever. If I can not feasible do this then I manage as best as I can so that the players do not go "Aha! Chris has put this NPC into the game that we never heard of. He must be involved in some form or fashion. Quick. Use telepathy on him."

 

My campaign is structured in such a way to avoid that.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

The problem I've had with mystery campaigns is that you can never NEVER expect the PCs to go a certain direction no matter how obvious the clues. "Our clues point to a freighter coming in from Taiwan at midnight...I'll stake out the airport!"

 

Conversely, you'll never have clues prepared for the good ideas they come up with that you weren't expecting. "I'm going to talk to the chauffer, he had to see something." "Umm, yeah, I guess he would have...good point...Oh, the chauffer's dead!"

 

You could always try the Riddler style mystery (didn't see that one coming, did you?) where the clues are very deliberately placed. The meaning of the clues still needs to be solved, but the actual detective work of looking for and analyzing clues is taken care of. Besides, the player's guesses can be an entertaining session all to themselves

[JohnTaber]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

I use a lot of the techniques that folks mention above but I have another one that I have also used if the players are solving a mystery too quickly. I usually come up with TWO possible culrits or a twist on the ending. This way if the players start to immediately jump on the solution I have something I can potentially use to extend the session. It has worked well for me but it is tricky if you have not planned it out well.

 

For the other problem (ie players don't get clues) I often do what others have suggested above. Come up with more than one path to the next step of the puzzle. If you don't have to use the other paths...great...if you do then you are prepared.

 

Good luck.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

 

How do you write/run a Mystry/Detective Adventure?

 

Thanks

 

QM

 

Honestly? I watch/read a lot of Poirot and Columbo. Sherlock Holmes, while amusing, tends to focus on forensic interpretation that either (1) the characters can't do or (2) powers can make far too easy.

 

As for bamboozling the players long enough for it to be fun... same thing. Admittedly, Columbo made it a habit of showing folks who did it, then you watched him break them down and make them confess. But Poirot and his mysteries were masterworks of "give them all the information they need to hang themselves accusing the wrong person."

 

Usually, there would be a preponderance of evidence that, at first glance, points towards one obvious suspect. In the end, once you actually analyze the evidence, you poke the holes through it and find out who's reallly guilty.

 

Five Little Pigs, The Hollow, and Sad Cypress are all pretty good examples of this.

 

Having more than one 'possible guilty party' really is the key in cases like that though. If there's only one real suspect... your players tend to notice it.

 

Also, keep in mind that the theory about supers in mysteries - that it's too easy to predict because "well, only Laser Guy has laser blasts, so it must be him" can usually be overcome by any resourceful gadgeteer who wants to pull a frame-up job. ^^

[pinecone]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

The 2 culprits is a good one...a real "slam on the brakes" line is "Isn't this mystery a little Too easy to solve?" that way the real baddie can seem even more evil 'cause he/she/it is framing someone And making the heros look like dopes....heros Hate to look like dopes... I basicly use the "Heres the crime scene" method...If the players look for clues they find whats there....or miss stuf...as they will....

[Jhereg]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

Personally' date=' I'll let them solve it "early" if they happen to go the right way. I'm not going to sabotage correct actions on their part just to make the game adhere to a pre-set schedule. [/quote']

 

Maybe I mis-spoke. I don't change the 'who' of the whodunit or anything I think would void the players' time and effort. I mean staying flexible as far as how useful this or that NPC is. Likewise, they may not even follow a clue, and you may have to dump that info in another manner. Like someone mentioned, you have to be ready for the PC's to go in a completely unexpected direction. It helps to have a backup plan in case you happen to like the direction they're going in.

 

A good combat or (even better) a chase makes useful stall tactics.

 

If the players solve the whole mess early, I try to draw out the payoff. I do love my chases.

[dbsousa]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

The problem I've had with mystery campaigns is that you can never NEVER expect the PCs to go a certain direction no matter how obvious the clues. "Our clues point to a freighter coming in from Taiwan at midnight...I'll stake out the airport!"

 

 

In our game group we call that "Staking out the Russian Embassy" after a single player decided that was where the bad stuff was going down. The rest of us felt it was a red herring, and went another way. We fought Nazis all night, while he twiddled his thumbs...

[Dynamo]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

I'm glad none of my players browse this forum, because I'm going to give up a secret. You want to know how I run a mystery? Here you go.

 

I don't know who did it. I totally make it up on the fly: clues, suspects, informants, everything. Whatever I throw at the players is based on my subjective opinion of the needs of the story in terms of pacing and tension. No matter what question they ask, I make sure the answer is interesting, but later I might decide they've been chasing a red herring if that's what I feel the story calls for at the moment.

 

My goal with this method is to keep the session feeling like cross between a mystery movie and an action-thriller. If I'm ever stuck, I imagine this notional movie and do whatever seems like a logical next plot point.

 

I also keep track of the theories the players bandy back and forth between them. My favorite stories of "figuring stuff out" feature many characters, each with a bit of the solution. So I will often incorporate a bit of each player's theories into the final solution.

 

Some will say this is a total cop-out and that it's "unfair" to the players. I ask what "fair" means. An interesting collaborative story gets told, and butts get kicked. What's missing?

[John Desmarais]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

I'm glad none of my players browse this forum, because I'm going to give up a secret. You want to know how I run a mystery? Here you go.

 

I don't know who did it.

 

Were I do to this I would screw up a clue somewhere and create an impossible situation that would then send the PCs down the wrong trail and the mystery would never be solved. I need have all of the big things decided before the game ever starts.

[Dynamo]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

Were I do to this I would screw up a clue somewhere and create an impossible situation that would then send the PCs down the wrong trail and the mystery would never be solved. I need have all of the big things decided before the game ever starts.

I don't know how many times I've made a critical error of this sort and gotten away undetected, but I've been caught at it three times. Since I run nothing but supers and fantasy, there's no such thing as an impossible situation; both of these genres epitomize out-of-the-box thinking. I just made the contradiction a central element to solving the puzzle.

 

However, the goal is to avoid getting caught, and that means careful notes. I jot down each bit I give them and build a diagram of suspects, motives, opportunities, connections, and so forth as if I were solving the mystery right along with the players, which I am in a way.

 

ADDENDUM: Also remember that using this method means there is no wrong trail. The trail the PCs are following is as right or wrong as you want it to be.

[fwcain]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mysteries

 

How do you write/run a Mystery/Detective Adventure?

I'd recommend you spend $13 to get this. As soon as I get a new job and I get my first paycheck' date=' I'm buying it for myself. I don't know yet if it adequately covers running mysteries in a [b']superhero[/b] environment, but I'd be surprised if it didn't help you in general. Over on the Pyramid newsgroups, Lisa Steele (the author of the above reference) is one of the persons there whose writings I pay attention to, as her comments have consistently proven themselves to be worth reading.

 

Other than that, I'd suggest wasting a weekend watching The Mystery Channel (presuming your cable/satellite TV provider carries that channel).

 

Hope this helps!

Franklin

[Robyn]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

It's tricky' date=' but mysteries are a staple of my games. Staying flexible is the most important thing for me. Have contingencies prepared; other directions you can go in case they start figuring things out too early.[/quote']

 

You mean, retroactively change the secret so that they really haven't figured out the mystery? Sounds like metagaming to me

 

As it happens, though, I do run a campaign where the characters are detectives or their assistants, and that is one of the methods I use. I reconciled the technique with the metagaming implications by way of this nifty little rule

 

You can also throw some red herrings to take up time' date=' and get them looking in the wrong place.[/quote']

 

I dislike red herrings on principle. Not because they're useless to the main plot, but because they're useless in general; they're a waste of on-screen time. I favor an "active world" model, where everyone is intriguing most of the time, and there's always several plots to be seen, but they will often have nothing to do with each other, and you can't investigate them all at once. If the PC's follow up on everything they discover, they will be led all over the map and never learn enough about any one plot to actually make any meaningful progress in it, whereas if they check their clues for relevance they can focus, and the other stuff they happen across along the way can later be used in another adventure.

 

Of course, with an approach like this, there's almost no such thing as a "main" plot; the PC's can look into whatever they want, and if the police have no specific orders for them, active curiosity is probably all they're asked to do ("Keep an eye out for anything suspicious going on, would you?"). But if it's all interesting, it should be entertaining in any case, though the "importance" of any particular plot (to those outside it) is hardly guaranteed

[Jhereg]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

You mean' date=' retroactively change the secret so that they really [i']haven't[/i] figured out the mystery? Sounds like metagaming to me

 

No. See my clarification in post #12

[David Johnston]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

The simplest answer is just to accept that the characters may fairly easily solve the "mystery" and make sure you've planned for what comes next.

[mikesama]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

When running a good mystery some rules to follow.

 

1: Release your clues slowly and let them go nuts figuring everything out about the clue they had currently found.

2: Set the begining and the end point and make the rest flexible.

3: If they have a great idea when trying to solve a mystery go ahead and incorporate it.

4: Any additional informatin you must have should be made as hooks that can be dropped in at an appropriate place and be fairly story independant.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

There's too many variables to cover everything; what kind of mystery are we talking about? Part of my epic game is a mystery and three years later the players STILL don't know who's running the show. Of course, that game has moved much more slowly in some instances than I would have liked.

 

The key lies in how you want to tell your story; any of the above options are viable, and I wouldn't support one over another, QM. Me? I know what's going on, I just wait for people to start digging, and then dole out information as I see fit. I've found if I'm a *little bit worried* about how much they've learned, it was probably just right. I'm such a control freak.

[GoldenAge]

Re: [GM Help Needed] Superhero Mystries

 

I'm glad none of my players browse this forum, because I'm going to give up a secret. You want to know how I run a mystery? Here you go.

 

I don't know who did it. I totally make it up on the fly: clues, suspects, informants, everything. Whatever I throw at the players is based on my subjective opinion of the needs of the story in terms of pacing and tension. No matter what question they ask, I make sure the answer is interesting, but later I might decide they've been chasing a red herring if that's what I feel the story calls for at the moment.

 

My goal with this method is to keep the session feeling like cross between a mystery movie and an action-thriller. If I'm ever stuck, I imagine this notional movie and do whatever seems like a logical next plot point.

 

I also keep track of the theories the players bandy back and forth between them. My favorite stories of "figuring stuff out" feature many characters, each with a bit of the solution. So I will often incorporate a bit of each player's theories into the final solution.

 

Some will say this is a total cop-out and that it's "unfair" to the players. I ask what "fair" means. An interesting collaborative story gets told, and butts get kicked. What's missing?

I'll second this style of GMing. I might start off with a loose outline (in my mind) and the major villains/perpetrators but it's the player's creativity that usually drives the game... Not allot of prep work on my part.

I've worked very, very hard to know everything in and about Epic City (my game). I know who will get involved in what and which moves groups, not directly involved in the moment, will make. It's the natural flow of a realistic storyline. I may make a few mistakes, but they're easily concealed since I know everything and the players only know what I tell them.