Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

[Cosmosemeritus]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Sorry Dale, but the ol' HP 48 confirms Gojira. 250gal = 33.4201388889...ft^3.

 

That negative space between barrels takes up a lot more volume that you'd think.

[Dale A. Ward]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Okay, I surrender... I have now been wrong twice!

 

 

I would like to point out, however, that my original premise was correct in that I was visualizing barrels and buckets (round containers) as opposed to a rectangular solid.

[Savinien]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

So... Did anyone actually come up with a usable map/picture of a cog/trireme?

 

I could use it in my Middle-Earth game. The group is headed onto an Umbarran ship. I'm thinking a twilight raid will be fun. But, I need a map and a 'crew count'.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Here's a couple of pictures I managed to glean

[Markdoc]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

What you have there is a Trireme, a 10th century ship (nobody seems to agree what these are called, being a transition between a knorr and a cog) and a galleas, if you're interested.

 

Here's a picture of a cog:

 

 

cheers, Mark

[mayapuppies]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

w00t! More pics.

 

Yeah, I included the trireme for grins and giggles.

[Savinien]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Any internal maps of these ships? I have a Dak, but wonder how close it would be to these...?

[Kristopher]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

This is actually a good thread for some research I need to touch on, but I'm also curious about Japanese and Chinese sailing vessels.

[Play4Keeps]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Helping w/the necromancy - - -

 

Types of ships to look for:

Cog

Galleass

Dhow

Lymphad

Carrack

Fluyt

Galleon

 

Last two are late period: you say you know "'pirate' ships" so you probably know them.

[gojira]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

This is actually a good thread for some research I need to touch on' date=' but I'm also curious about Japanese and Chinese sailing vessels.[/quote']

 

Here's an obvious place to start:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk_%28ship%29

[Sir Ofeelya]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

I suggest that you get hold of the Columbia Games supplement for Harn called "Pilot's Almanac".

 

It will answer all of yoru questions and give you some cool maps as well.

[Inu]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Okay' date=' I surrender... I have now been wrong [b']twice[/b]!

 

 

I would like to point out, however, that my original premise was correct in that I was visualizing barrels and buckets (round containers) as opposed to a rectangular solid.

Make your job easier, conver to metric.

 

Metric works REALLY nicely when converting volume to mass.

 

One cubic centimetre of water is one millilitre, and weighs one grab. 1000 cubic centimetres (a 10cm cube) is one litre, and weighs one kilogram. A cubic metre of water is one ton (1000 kg).

 

Water has a specific gravity of 1, meaning it's the standard used above. Gold has a specific gravity of 19.3, which means that a cubic metre of gold weighs about 19.3 tons. One cubic centimetre of gold weighs 19.3 grams. (Solid gold, anyway. Liquid gold probably has a different density.)

 

Metric rocks.

[Inu]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

I did research on this topic a while back, for my own fantasy game. There is pitiful information out there for cogs, holks, and similar ships. If anyone has good sites to point me to, I'd be forever grateful! Wiki was pretty poor in information in these areas last time I checked.

 

There was some good stuff, though. Oared ships remained the standard for military vessels until the late middle ages. They were a dominant force in the Battle of Lepanto, in 1571.

 

(In my own game, galleys are the standard for most nations, but there are a couple of ocean-going ones that have invested heavily in new technologies, and can make caravels. Lotta info on caravels. Not so many on cogs and related vessels. )

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Oared ships remained the standard for military vessels until the late middle ages.

 

I don't know that I'd say they were the standard. The Mediterranean was well-suited to galleys (land isn't too far away if a storm blows up), but outside it, oared ships weren't too common.

 

Although, the Swedes did use them to good effect against the Russians in the 1780s. Coastal warfare again, though. A fleet of galleys out of sight of land is begging to be sunk.

[Spence]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

I suggest that you get hold of the Columbia Games supplement for Harn called "Pilot's Almanac".

 

It will answer all of yoru questions and give you some cool maps as well.

 

I have to second this very strongly. I am a real history buff for seafaring from the age of the galley to late sail.

 

Columbia Game’s “Pilots Almanac” is hands down the best RPG handbook for running the maritime aspects of a merchantmen in the 1200-1600’s. It’s guidelines (loose rules) cover everything from sailing the ship, cargo handling, crew positions with job descriptions and how simulate them for a game. Pay, how to navigate and so on. All with enough detail to make a great game, but simple enough to be usable with one read through.

 

If you are running a medieval seafaring game this is the book to have.

 

Until there is a Hero book that is

[Old Man]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

I don't know that I'd say they were the standard. The Mediterranean was well-suited to galleys (land isn't too far away if a storm blows up)' date=' but outside it, oared ships weren't too common.[/quote']

 

Surely the Viking longship qualifies as an oared vessel.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Surely the Viking longship qualifies as an oared vessel.

 

Yeah, I suppose. It's more the exception than the rule.

 

As late as the 1700's there were occasional oared ships plying the Atlantic, but they were mostly sailing ships refitted with oars, and weren't particularly handy when rowed. They are also much more the exception than the rule.

[Pavanne]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Ship by David Macaulay is a good basic book about the caravels of the 15th & 16th centuries. It's more about construction than use, but that's what you'd expect from Macaulay.

[Old Man]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Yeah, I suppose. It's more the exception than the rule.

 

As late as the 1700's there were occasional oared ships plying the Atlantic, but they were mostly sailing ships refitted with oars, and weren't particularly handy when rowed. They are also much more the exception than the rule.

 

I dunno. I was the drummer on a slave galley in the Atlantic around the eleventh century and there were plenty of oared galleys and longships around.

[Dale A. Ward]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

I just watched a History Channel show about contemporary machines and devices and their ancient ancestors. One of the segments was about modern cargo ships and their ancient Greek forerunners.

 

They mentioned a ship named "Syracusea" that was supposedly an amazing vessel designed by Archimedes for the king of Syracuse. It was hailed as the largest cargo ship of its day, being 5 times as long as the ships it was replacing, and could carry enough grain to feed the entire city of Athens for a year.

 

I've tried googling it, but got nothing. Someone else may have better luck.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Anyone know of any links to maps of the interiors of ships? Something with rough dimensions and a key to which sections are which (where officers/crew quarters are, where the cargo hold is, etc)?

 

I'm trying to find a schooner, but heck, at this point just about anything would do.

[Curufea]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

http://www.newnetherland.org/images/ship8.jpg

http://www.sdmaritime.org/PrivateEvents.asp?ContentID=293

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

I don't know that I'd say they were the standard. The Mediterranean was well-suited to galleys (land isn't too far away if a storm blows up), but outside it, oared ships weren't too common.

 

Although, the Swedes did use them to good effect against the Russians in the 1780s. Coastal warfare again, though. A fleet of galleys out of sight of land is begging to be sunk.

 

Again, it depends on the design. English shpmakers were producing at least one fairly common Galley design up till 1809, if I recall my research correctly. I know Cpt. William Kidd set out on his ill fortuned venture from London in 1696 in a brand spanking new ship name Adventure Galley, which was built on the basic model...tho these late period galleys were built and rigged essentially as frigates with additional sweeps to provide combat maneuverability. So they're warships alright... Kidd was originally a pirate hunter and privateer, so he wanted something that'd fight well.

 

A pic of the Adventure Galley for y'all...

[concord]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Anyone know of any links to maps of the interiors of ships? Something with rough dimensions and a key to which sections are which (where officers/crew quarters are, where the cargo hold is, etc)?

 

I'm trying to find a schooner, but heck, at this point just about anything would do.

 

Lythia.com is a resource for Harn and you can find some ship plans there. The second link is the closest to your request.

 

 

This is a link to a map bundle which contains amongst other plans, two ships in TIF format.

 

http://www.lythia.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=211

 

 

This is a link to a PDF file that maps and describes a 64 ft ship known as a dak or cog.

 

http://www.lythia.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=200

[Cancer]

Re: Ships of the Dark Ages and Medieval Period

 

Strictly necromantic bump on this thread so I can find it more easily. Trying to come up with plausible, workable maritime stuff for a fantastic analogy to the tech that existed in North Sea area about 1250 AD.