Black Omega Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 I was working on a character for a new game recently and while reading over my books I realized in the books I'm finding almost no archtypes for a set of powers like Wolverine has. Basically a tank, someone who stands there and takes a ton of damage in a fight but isn't a brick. Can do a good amount of damage but not bring buildings down on people. The character type is so popular, I'm surprised it's not mentioned more in the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? I think it's more a source material v game play thing. I could be wrong, but most players don't like playing the guy that's truly outclassed by his teammates, nor do they like playing the guy that gets beat up the most, regardless of how well he can take it. As always, your mileage may vary... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenn Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? My guess would be it's not gone into more detail because such a character is a hybrid of archetypes. He has Brick-like defenses, but attack abilities like a martial artist or perhaps a weapons master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Hmm... now you've got me wondering: in the source comics, aside from Wolverine, what characters fit that description? I should think there must be others, but I'm coming up blank. I do agree with Kenn, though, that Wolvie's power set is a fairly unique hybrid of other archetypes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? I've often thought Wolverine belonged in the "Master Combat Artist" class of characters--they can take on large groups of thugs or an entire team of supervillains, but they're not extremely strong like Superman or Wonder Woman or Thor, or extremely fast like The Flash, or otherwise extremely empowered like Green Lantern, et al. Some have superpowers, some don't, but they're all really good fighters. The list includes, but is not limited to: Batman Daredevil Wolverine Spider-Man Captain America Black Canary Huntress Black Widow Luke Cage Bronze Tiger Shang-Chi, Master Of Kung Fu Apex (from City Of Heroes) Nighthawk (from Champions 5th Ed) Crusader (from Champions Ed 1--4) Green Dragon (from every edition of Champions) Feel free to add to this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemurion Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Back when I started playing Champions (it wasn't Hero System back then) the first GM I had called them "demi-bricks." This would have been about 1987 or so. His definition was a close combat character based around killing attacks rather than strength. Still it's not that common a character type in most games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Looks to me like a list of Martial Artists. It's probably just personal interpretation, but I've always felt that 'way-big defenses' (and for this purpose, high skill levels and dodging ) on martial artists existed more to make them side-by-side playable with higher-powered bricks and blasters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? THe THING although he is extremly strong his super toughness and indomitable will are really his most powerful assets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Hmm... now you've got me wondering: in the source comics, aside from Wolverine, what characters fit that description? I should think there must be others, but I'm coming up blank. Well if you count Cap's Shield as defences, and when he blocks "sucking it up" Cap could fit. I also, having not played the games, think that the OP has experience with City of Heroes. IIRC Scrapper and Tank are archtypes there, rather than in the source literature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? I was working on a character for a new game recently and while reading over my books I realized in the books I'm finding almost no archtypes for a set of powers like Wolverine has. Basically a tank' date=' someone who stands there and takes a ton of damage in a fight but isn't a brick. Can do a good amount of damage but not bring buildings down on people. The character type is so popular, I'm surprised it's not mentioned more in the books.[/quote'] As others have said, most "Scrapper" types are actualy martial artists of some kind, wolverine is basicaly a Martial Artist who uses cybernetic claws and has a healing factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Spider Man is a high power speed brick with some ranged attacks rather than a martial artist. That said, I'd agree that Wolverine is closest to a martial artist with brick-like CON and BODY, and enough regeneration to make up for his somewhat lower defenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McManus Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? I have always used a Combat Monster archetype for characters that I didn't think of as Martial Artist. Wolverine, Capt. America, Timber Wolf, and The Beast seemed to all fit that archetype to me. In the source material (the comics) Wolvie and Cap are occasionally written as masters of various martial arts, but usually they seem to be just really good brawlers. Most other Hero gamers I know don't seem to agree with that archetype and are comfortable classifying them as Martial Artists. And to quell speculation, I had this archetype almost twenty years before COH ever came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted August 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Hmm... now you've got me wondering: in the source comics' date=' aside from Wolverine, what characters fit that description? I should think there must be others, but I'm coming up blank.[/quote']It's not common, I'll agree. Wolverine, Sabretooth, X-23...hm..healing factor characters are what come to mind, now that I think on it. Maybe it's just a duplicate Wolverine thing. I do agree with Kenn' date=' though, that Wolvie's power set is a fairly unique hybrid of other archetypes.[/quote']True enough. Main reason I asked was I'm creating a character that I plan to use as a damage sponge/martial artist, someone very tough who can take being hit and fight on. And that ended up fitting the wolverine archtype fairly well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackValhalla Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? I can only think of one similar hybrid, the character who can take a pounding all day every day, but doesn't give back with raw strength. The only one that comes to mind is Lobo. Take that back, Ghost Rider is pretty near invulnerable too, isn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? The "scrapper" is kind of a vague concept in some ways. How much STR before you move into brick range? Spidey fights like a martial artist but has no martial moves at all(maybe dodge), so does he count? Mostly, I think what we think of are good hand to hand fighters who aren't strong enough to be bricks, but don't fight like martial artists, even if they have the training(and Wolvie definitely has the training). Some characters I see that generally fit this type: Wolverine Tigra Sabretooth Luke Cage Wildcat(yeah, I know, he's a great boxer, but he doesn't fight that way) Lobo Ghost Rider Spiderman Hobgoblin(Macendale) Lizard Notice that we have a lot of the animal themed characters. I don't think that's an accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? I once made a 'character tree' setup, that branched out into major archetypes (Brick, Energy Projector, Mentalist, Martial Artist, Jack of All Trades), then subdivided. Before anybody asks, Mentalist was a subset of Energy Projector (damage at range). By that tree, Wolverine and his ilk would be 'Mad Slashers'; Martial Artists who primarily use Killing Attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenn Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Spider-Man is pretty much a reverse of the hybrid of the archetypes. Webbing not withstanding, he has Brick-like attacks, but defensive abilities like a martial artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Here is the Ultimate Scrappy: http://www.grudge-match.com/Images/scrappy.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Spider-Man is pretty much a reverse of the hybrid of the archetypes. Webbing not withstanding' date=' he has Brick-like attacks, but defensive abilities like a martial artist.[/quote'] Somewhat, but Spidey, despite having enough STR to do some brick like things, doesn't have brick level attacks. His punches bounce off of pretty much any true brick(e.g. Rhino). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted August 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Somewhat' date=' but Spidey, despite having enough STR to do some brick like things, doesn't have brick level attacks. His punches bounce off of pretty much any true brick(e.g. Rhino).[/quote'] Spidey is strange. Demi-brick. He's not on the level of the Hulk or Thing. But he's punched out a herald of Galactus and I don't think Hulk, Thing or Thor ever managed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Hmm... now you've got me wondering: in the source comics, aside from Wolverine, what characters fit that description? I should think there must be others, but I'm coming up blank. I do agree with Kenn, though, that Wolvie's power set is a fairly unique hybrid of other archetypes. The first that comes to mind is the Badger...also Scarlet scorpian....hard to think of any others right away.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Spidey is strange. Demi-brick. He's not on the level of the Hulk or Thing. But he's punched out a herald of Galactus and I don't think Hulk' date=' Thing or Thor ever managed that.[/quote'] Now Back in theaters for a limited time: Spiderman Vs. Firelord! http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19461&highlight=firelord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted August 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Now Back in theaters for a limited time: Spiderman Vs. Firelord! http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19461&highlight=firelord And that's not even counting all the threads I've seen on it elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? spideys attacks are brick like in that hes relying soley on his strength rather than training for damage and he can dent steel and bench press a buick. spidey liek other scrappers can go toe to toe with bricks maybe not hurting them but slowing thenm down and escaping with his life. my thoughts would be that scrappers are martial artist/weapon masters with extra damge and/or defenses that let them go to that next level of super heroics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D. Hurricanes Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Re: Ultimate Scrapper? Now Back in theaters for a limited time: Spiderman Vs. Firelord! http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19461&highlight=firelord First the Scrappy thing...now this... There's a special place in hell for people like you. :tsk: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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