Grond vs. A Cow

[L. Marcus]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

. . . Aaaagh! Just had a picture of Grong fighting Supercow . . .

[WarriorKnight]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Why give them KAs at all? Human skin is tough enough to defend against things like cat claws. Just give them a 1d6 Hand to Hand Attack.

Really it is?My cat must be a mutant,cause I've got cuts all over my hands from my cat.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Really it is?My cat must be a mutant' date='cause I've got cuts all over my hands from my cat.[/quote']

 

Did it put you in the hospital, or just hurt?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Did it put you in the hospital' date=' or just hurt?[/quote']

 

Does 1 BOD mean you're off to the hospital?

 

Let's rephrase your question, however:

 

Did you sit down for 2 minutes, after which the pain and all sign of the injury was gone, or did the scratches remain, taking days or weeks to heal? STUN recovers pretty quick, after all.

 

Now, one might make a case that small animals inflict only fractional BOD, but the game requires 1 or none, no in between. Unfortunately, neither is really right for small animals.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Does 1 BOD mean you're off to the hospital?

 

Let's rephrase your question, however:

 

Did you sit down for 2 minutes, after which the pain and all sign of the injury was gone, or did the scratches remain, taking days or weeks to heal? STUN recovers pretty quick, after all.

 

Now, one might make a case that small animals inflict only fractional BOD, but the game requires 1 or none, no in between. Unfortunately, neither is really right for small animals.

 

I don't know if a cat scratch itself would qualify as 1 point of BOD damage. Even if you don't go with the concept of fractional BOD damage, there are some things that are just cosmetic or a special effect. If a very small mammal does 1 pip of Killing with reduced penetration wouldn't you have to either apply fractional damage and/or allow that some effects of damage that don't add up to a full point are visible, but not impairing in any way?

 

For the sake of drama, could you say, "Oh, your Damage Resistance/Armor/Combat Luck stopped the damage, but you have a small scratch/scuff/scortch mark there. If this keeps up you could get hurt."

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Does 1 BOD mean you're off to the hospital?

 

Let's rephrase your question, however:

 

Did you sit down for 2 minutes, after which the pain and all sign of the injury was gone, or did the scratches remain, taking days or weeks to heal? STUN recovers pretty quick, after all.

 

I don't remember anywhere in the rules that said that when recovered, all signs of a wound are gone. I would expect that most attacks that do a lot of STUN would leave a bruise. A scratch is no more serious than a bruise, in most cases.

 

I would say that in order for a scratch to be considered BODY, it would have to be nasty enough to need stitches.

 

It's easy to get into the mindset that sharp = Killing Attack and blunt = Normal Attack. It took me a while to reconcile that myself, the first time I saw warhammers and maces doing Killing Attacks (although, yeah, some maces are spiky rather than just bumpy or ridgy). A warhammer or mace will break bones rather easily, structurally damaging the body, so they're Killing Attacks. A small animal's bite or scratch in most cases will be painful, but not really life-threatening, even if done repeatedly, so they're Normal Attacks, IMO. YMMV.

[OddHat]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

I've always ruled that Stun damage leaves scrapes and bruises. From that point of view, if any in-game impairing effects fade in a few minutes, the damage was in game mechanic terms Stun; if the damage continues to inflict in-game impairing effects for a day or longer (adjusted for regeneration), it is in game mechanics terms Body.

 

In the real world there is no strictly differentiated "stun" and "body", no "killing" and "normal" damage; they're game mechanics, and useful in game, but only roughly map to real world phenomena.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

In the real world there is no strictly differentiated "stun" and "body"' date=' no "killing" and "normal" damage; they're game mechanics, and useful in game, but only roughly map to real world phenomena.[/quote']

 

This is true. No game has ever been able to deal effectively with all the weird ways people die. One guy is shot twenty times and lives, another is shot once and dies instantly, yet another is shot once and dies slowly over hours.

 

To even begin to realistically cover damage, you'd have to account for whether the wound is in an instantly lethal area, and if not, how much it bleeds. Some wounds won't even bleed enough to bother tracking, even if it would be really annoying to the character, slopping all over the place. Some wounds will bleed him out quickly, some slowly, and some are only dangerous if there are a lot of them or if they are left unbandaged.

 

I started trying to figure out a way to do this once, but I decided it was too in depth to be useful in play before I got very far with it.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Less talk...MORE COWS!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And giant clams!

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Mmm... steak and clams!

[Vestnik]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Really it is?My cat must be a mutant' date='cause I've got cuts all over my hands from my cat.[/quote']

 

Enough to do Body damage?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

I've always ruled that Stun damage leaves scrapes and bruises. From that point of view' date=' if any in-game impairing effects fade in a few minutes, the damage was in game mechanic terms Stun; if the damage continues to inflict in-game impairing effects for a day or longer (adjusted for regeneration), it is in game mechanics terms Body.[/quote']

 

A bruise or a scrape is generaly sensitive for several days (longer in some cases), which is a long-lasting effect. being struck on an existing bruise or scrape is more painful than being struck on an uninjured location. This is what makes the sorting out of BOD vs STUN more difficult.

 

We're talking about domesticated housecats, but a feral wildcat isn't much different physically, and can certainly kill. In any case, if a cat cannot inflict even a single point of BOD, how is it that they manage to kill birds, mice, etc? Do such small creatures bear the physical limitation "dies if takes more than 10 Stun", or is it possible for their predators to inflict that 1 point of BOD required to kill them?

 

Maybe we need to multiply everything in the game by 10, or 100, so we can have small creatures inflict only 1 or 2 BOD, inconsequential compared to a typical human's 80(0) BOD, but enough to kill a small rodent. Or maybe we simply accept that the typical Hero game is unlikely to enter around squirrels and housecats, and accept that whatever approach we're taking is rounding due to the scale not being granular enough to account for a cat doing enough damage to kill the squirrel, but being unlikely to kill a human being, even given a full minute of "combat".

[Vestnik]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

We're talking about domesticated housecats, but a feral wildcat isn't much different physically, and can certainly kill. In any case, if a cat cannot inflict even a single point of BOD, how is it that they manage to kill birds, mice, etc? Do such small creatures bear the physical limitation "dies if takes more than 10 Stun", or is it possible for their predators to inflict that 1 point of BOD required to kill them?

 

Small creatures have very low nonresistant DEF. Otherwise you couldn't kill an animal by stepping on it. If something has a PD of 1, you can kill it with a 5 STR.

[OddHat]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

A bruise or a scrape is generaly sensitive for several days (longer in some cases)' date=' which is a long-lasting effect. being struck on an existing bruise or scrape is more painful than being struck on an uninjured location. This is what makes the sorting out of BOD vs STUN more difficult.[/quote']

 

It's part of it, and also part of the problem with any system that simplifies damage so as to make it workable in a game setting. Personally, I'm often bruised or scraped from sparing and weight lifting. It has never impeded my performance enough that, were I writing things up in game terms, I'd record it as body. From a cinematic point of view (the reality HERO generally tries to simulate), depending on genre, bruising can impair performance and last the length of a show or have no impact on performance vanish by the next scene; in game terms, sometimes it's a SFX of taking body, sometimes it's a SFX of taking stun.

 

We're talking about domesticated housecats, but a feral wildcat isn't much different physically, and can certainly kill. In any case, if a cat cannot inflict even a single point of BOD, how is it that they manage to kill birds, mice, etc? Do such small creatures bear the physical limitation "dies if takes more than 10 Stun", or is it possible for their predators to inflict that 1 point of BOD required to kill them?

 

In game terms, the prey has very low PD and the cat only needs to roll one 6. In SFX terms, micro damage is inflicted until the prey dies. HERO is not set up to handle damage on the house cat scale all that well, though there are some suggestions in Ultimate Metamorph.

 

Maybe we need to multiply everything in the game by 10, or 100, so we can have small creatures inflict only 1 or 2 BOD, inconsequential compared to a typical human's 80(0) BOD, but enough to kill a small rodent. Or maybe we simply accept that the typical Hero game is unlikely to enter around squirrels and housecats, and accept that whatever approach we're taking is rounding due to the scale not being granular enough to account for a cat doing enough damage to kill the squirrel, but being unlikely to kill a human being, even given a full minute of "combat".

 

And this I'd pretty much agree with.

[Silbeg]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

I was thinking, maybe these cows are from the "Secret Mad Cow Level" on Diablo 2?

 

Now, those cows were uber!!!

[name_tamer]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Maybe we need to multiply everything in the game by 10' date=' or 100, so we can have small creatures inflict only 1 or 2 BOD, inconsequential compared to a typical human's 80(0) BOD, but enough to kill a small rodent. [/quote']

 

Did someone say Mega-Damage?

[L. Marcus]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

. . . No

[Mister E]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Maybe we need to multiply everything in the game by 10, or 100, so we can have small creatures inflict only 1 or 2 BOD, inconsequential compared to a typical human's 80(0) BOD, but enough to kill a small rodent. Or maybe we simply accept that the typical Hero game is unlikely to enter around squirrels and housecats, and accept that whatever approach we're taking is rounding due to the scale not being granular enough to account for a cat doing enough damage to kill the squirrel, but being unlikely to kill a human being, even given a full minute of "combat".

 

HobbitHERO!

[MilkmanDan]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

GROND! I SAY THEE MOOOOOOO!!!!!!

 

Sorry. That's Super Clow.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

How many squirrels would it take to take down Grond?

 

 

 

 

 

Them suckers is quick!

[L. Marcus]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

. . . Was that an infinity-plus-one question?

[Vondy]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

[L. Marcus]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

. . . She def'nit'ly has an AF EB, plus maybe some Stretching on her udder . . .

[SteveZilla]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Mmm... steak and clams!

 

Clamburgers!

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Grond vs. A Cow

 

Superintendent Chalmers: Why is there smoke coming out of your oven, Seymour?

Seymour Skinner: Oh, that isn't smoke. It's steam. Steam from the steamed clams we're having. Mmmmm, steamed clams.

[skinner runs aross the street to Krusty Burger, and returns to the dining room with a tray of hamburgers.]

Seymour Skinner: Superintendent, I hope you're ready for mouth-watering hamburgers.

Superintendent Chalmers: I thought we were having steamed clams.

Seymour Skinner: Oh, no, I said steamed hams. That's what I call hamburgers.

Superintendent Chalmers: You call hamburgers steamed hams?

Seymour Skinner: Yes, it's a regional dialect.

Superintendent Chalmers: Uh-huh. What region?

Seymour Skinner: Uhh ... Upstate New York.

Superintendent Chalmers: Really? Well, I'm from Utica, and I've never heard anyone use the phrase 'steamed hams.'

Seymour Skinner: Oh, not in Utica. No, it's an Albany expression.

Superintendent Chalmers: I see.

[Chalmers bites into a steamed ham.]

Superintendent Chalmers: You know, these hamburgers are quite similar to the ones they have at Krusty Burger.

Seymour Skinner: Oh ho ho, no. Patented Skinner burgers. Old family recipe.

Superintendent Chalmers: For steamed hams ...

Seymour Skinner: Yes ...

Superintendent Chalmers: Yes, and you call them steamed hams despite the fact that they are obviously grilled.

Seymour Skinner: You know I— One thing I sh— Excuse me for one second.

[skinner walks into the kitchen and returns to the dining room.]

Seymour Skinner: Well, that was wonderful. A good time was had by all. I'm pooped.

Superintendent Chalmers: Yes, I should be— Good lord, what is happening in there?

Seymour Skinner: Aurora Borealis?

Superintendent Chalmers: Aurora Borealis? At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country? Localized entirely within your kitchen?

Seymour Skinner: Yes.

Superintendent Chalmers: May I see it?

Seymour Skinner: No

Agnes Skinner: Seymour, the house is on fire!

Seymour Skinner: No, Mother. It's just the Northern Lights.

Superintendent Chalmers: Well, Seymour, you are an odd fellow, but I must say you steam a good ham.